Ascended Winners and Losers

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  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 399 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:
    I did 4 hits on the current 5e with Bong/Deathlok/May, and it won all 4 times pretty easily without using a health pack.

    I don't think I was able to test what you wanted to test though. I was only able to cast Deathlok black a few times, and Bong yellow once. Everybody died from Aunt May's red and Bong/Deathlok blue, with Deathlok's passive and May's passive boosting everything.

    I assume if I'd spent more time chasing yellow for Bong that the healing would've been acceptable.

    Haha, yeah, I run that team in SIM with my auntie still at 3 and bong at 4 and they still destroy things quickly (that DL blue gets out of hand with the buffs and May is definitely broken). I suppose I could try some paper math for the healing numbers. If you ever get bored and test out Bong more I'd love to hear your thoughts on if his yellow is still worth it (it's possible since they do such big damage).

  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:

    @Pylgrim said:
    Does anybody know if 4* Cap Marvel changes a lot? She's my only 4* who is close to max champ and I really like her.

    Carol stays good. I keep mine
    at 5/5/3,
    but have selected the 5th cover on green so you can see what that looks like.


    This is at level 459.

    Thanks a lot!

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,653 Chairperson of the Boards

    Coming back around to Shaw since many of you are around the corner.

    I'm using a boosted ascended Shaw at 451. If you want to feature him, use an AP gen team. Evo and Deathlok are what I use now, but others will work. Once you get into the mid match range just fire his purple to use his nuke, or go with a match down.

    He is a very good damage tank if you can provide him with AP.
    I would put him in the upper A tier when he is boosted. I ran his purple 2-4 times in a turn nuked 1 cl10 challenge node opponent, then matched-3 down another. His buffs are quite strong.
    So he is a first choice in PvE when boosted, and not only a PvP SheThor counter.

    He has nobody else to compare against still so as it is, he is best in class...until somebody else comes along to punch SheThor in the mouth.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 399 Mover and Shaker

    In my experience Chasm completely shuts down MThor (on offense anyway). Others mention ascended Loki or Moondog? Not really sure many people have them ascended though.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,653 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:
    In my experience Chasm completely shuts down MThor (on offense anyway). Others mention ascended Loki or Moondog? Not really sure many people have them ascended though.

    Chasm stops her from going early, but you have to take her out first.
    Shaw stops her engine, so you can leave her for last. With Shaw out SheThor never has more than 4 charged tiles on the board, but virtually never more than 1 at the beginning of her turn.
    Chasm is very different he slows her down for 3-4 turns. After a while her engine revs up and blows you out.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,965 Chairperson of the Boards

    @WhiteBomber said:
    In my experience Chasm completely shuts down MThor (on offense anyway). Others mention ascended Loki or Moondog? Not really sure many people have them ascended though.

    Loki damages the opponent every time they match a charged tile. When he's 5* and boosted, the damage gets pretty significant -- I tried him awhile ago and it was 20k or so, which will kill an unboosted m'Thor in 7 or 8 hits.

    Cosmo is better, but hasn't been boosted yet. His passive deactivates the enemy's powers, including passives, every time they match a charged tile. I haven't tried him out yet though.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,470 Chairperson of the Boards

    That power doesn’t seem to work like I want it to; it never actually seems to shut Jane off.

  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    That power doesn’t seem to work like I want it to; it never actually seems to shut Jane off.

    The character has to match the tile, if one of Jane's teammates makes the match, it won't stop her passives.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,470 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah that feels like what is happening. It's been my experience that Shaw just works better.

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 399 Mover and Shaker

    mm, yeah that's kind of weak, unfortunate since it's such a fun concept. Hopefully they make new abilities in the future that more easily shut down passives.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,965 Chairperson of the Boards

    I've asked about the passive passive-killer guy a bunch, and they really just can't make him at this point. We've got way too many passives and way too many characters would behave in strange ways if they were shut off full-time.

    I really don't know what they'll do to counter m'Thor but I hope they keep trying. It needs to be a character that she can't beat, but I think anyone that she can't beat is going to be quite problematic in his own right.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,653 Chairperson of the Boards

    So to make a passive killer you need him to have a passive...that kills passives.
    So when they go toe to toe who wins?

    I am sure there are other ways to go at the passive meta, but strait denying passives probably just wont work and could potentially break the game.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    So to make a passive killer you need him to have a passive...that kills passives.
    So when they go toe to toe who wins?

    I am sure there are other ways to go at the passive meta, but strait denying passives probably just wont work and could potentially break the game.

    Yeah, I would think it would have to be more of a fortified countdown tile or something. Fire 6 AP and get a countdown tile that, when on board, either doesn't allow passives or maybe you could target one toon on the opposing team that can't use passives while CD on board.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @dianetics said:
    So to make a passive killer you need him to have a passive...that kills passives.
    So when they go toe to toe who wins?

    I am sure there are other ways to go at the passive meta, but strait denying passives probably just wont work and could potentially break the game.

    Yeah, I would think it would have to be more of a fortified countdown tile or something. Fire 6 AP and get a countdown tile that, when on board, either doesn't allow passives or maybe you could target one toon on the opposing team that can't use passives while CD on board.

    Technically something like this already exists now in the Away and Stun mechanics. You send her away / stun for X number of turns and during that time all her passives are 'off'.

    KGB

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I really don't know what they'll do to counter m'Thor but I hope they keep trying. It needs to be a character that she can't beat, but I think anyone that she can't beat is going to be quite problematic in his own right.

    Are there any actual absolute counters in the game now? Where if you use character X and the opposing team has character Y you can't beat them? Even if the character is boosted and the counter is not? Including using with boosts, right team mates, right TUs and eventually right supports? I can't think of anything like that where the player just can't win (lets define can't win at say you can't win more than 20% of the time since there is no 0% success rate combos).

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,965 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @LavaManLee said:

    @dianetics said:
    So to make a passive killer you need him to have a passive...that kills passives.
    So when they go toe to toe who wins?

    I am sure there are other ways to go at the passive meta, but strait denying passives probably just wont work and could potentially break the game.

    Yeah, I would think it would have to be more of a fortified countdown tile or something. Fire 6 AP and get a countdown tile that, when on board, either doesn't allow passives or maybe you could target one toon on the opposing team that can't use passives while CD on board.

    Technically something like this already exists now in the Away and Stun mechanics. You send her away / stun for X number of turns and during that time all her passives are 'off'.

    KGB

    Yep, exactly. What @LavaManLee is describing is just a worse version of Away or Stun, and we've already got plenty of those abilities.

    At this point a passive shutdown guy would need to have that ability passively, and that ability is just too good. Look at all the characters people actually use -- m'Thor, Shang-Chi, Chasm, Omega Red, Colossus -- if you turn off their passives they're totally worthless. Chasm is basically just stunned!

    If they gave us that guy he'd immediately become must-use on every team, in every event, which is exactly what he'd be meant to fix!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,965 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I really don't know what they'll do to counter m'Thor but I hope they keep trying. It needs to be a character that she can't beat, but I think anyone that she can't beat is going to be quite problematic in his own right.

    Are there any actual absolute counters in the game now? Where if you use character X and the opposing team has character Y you can't beat them? Even if the character is boosted and the counter is not? Including using with boosts, right team mates, right TUs and eventually right supports? I can't think of anything like that where the player just can't win (lets define can't win at say you can't win more than 20% of the time since there is no 0% success rate combos).

    KGB

    Hulk/Scarlet Witch. I'm sure there are more but that's the one I always think of.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,277 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 7 June 2024, 18:33

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I really don't know what they'll do to counter m'Thor but I hope they keep trying. It needs to be a character that she can't beat, but I think anyone that she can't beat is going to be quite problematic in his own right.

    Are there any actual absolute counters in the game now? Where if you use character X and the opposing team has character Y you can't beat them? Even if the character is boosted and the counter is not? Including using with boosts, right team mates, right TUs and eventually right supports? I can't think of anything like that where the player just can't win (lets define can't win at say you can't win more than 20% of the time since there is no 0% success rate combos).

    KGB

    Hulk/Scarlet Witch. I'm sure there are more but that's the one I always think of.

    So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

    KGB

    P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf :*

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,965 Chairperson of the Boards

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    @KGB said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I really don't know what they'll do to counter m'Thor but I hope they keep trying. It needs to be a character that she can't beat, but I think anyone that she can't beat is going to be quite problematic in his own right.

    Are there any actual absolute counters in the game now? Where if you use character X and the opposing team has character Y you can't beat them? Even if the character is boosted and the counter is not? Including using with boosts, right team mates, right TUs and eventually right supports? I can't think of anything like that where the player just can't win (lets define can't win at say you can't win more than 20% of the time since there is no 0% success rate combos).

    KGB

    Hulk/Scarlet Witch. I'm sure there are more but that's the one I always think of.

    So you are saying iHulk teams can't beat Scarlet Witch teams? Even if you keep the manage the trigger for his passive so it doesn't activate and your other character can stun her or send her away etc? Maybe the win rate only 70 instead of 95+ but it's not like 20 or lower.

    KGB

    P.S. The evil side of me says the Devs could technically MThor usage without actually nerfing her stats. The evil method would be to introduce a 1-2 second more delay on her passives and actives firing when used by the player (AI control would remain same). That delay would infuriate players esp in the speed mode game of PvP and lessen her usage without it technically being a nerf :*

    No, immortal hulk. When SW was released, the metagame was Hulk + booster, usually Okoye, and those teams just couldn't beat her at all. She drove them out of the metagame right away.

    I really really don't want to turn another thread into a m'Thor debate though! This is about fun ascended characters!

  • WhiteBomber
    WhiteBomber Posts: 399 Mover and Shaker
    edited 7 June 2024, 18:41

    How did this turn in to "that character would be too strong" when we already have Cosmo who does it and is still a pretty bad character? The ability doesn't have to be "I exist so all passives are disabled" rather ANYTHING better than what Cosmo currently does. There are at least 1000 ways that could be creatively handled with this games mechanics.

    However! Professor X strikes me as a "I exist so your abilities should all be disabled" kinda guy (unless you have Magnetos helm).

    Just for personal context, my comment is more global and not directly at MThor as I am one of the few who don't think she is crazy over the top.

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