Champions 2.0 - Batch #2 Info

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Comments

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @JediJones77 said:

    @BriMan2222 said:

    When ascension went live I instantly had 12 roster slots open up after merging all the characters that I could. I'm still positive 1 roster slot after the first batch and should get about 20 more once the next batch goes live.

    A situation that applies to virtually no one. The game offered almost no reason to hold onto duplicate maxed versions of the same character. The only reasons were if the character was particularly useful, and you wanted to use them often and save on revives, or if you wanted to have the ability to give multiple team-ups of that character to your alliance. The absolute norm of play was to sell a duplicate of a character as soon as you maxed them. Every incentive was put in place to do that. You got resources for selling them, and you avoided having to buy a new roster slot to begin using covers of that character again to earn more rewards. Anyone holding onto more than a few duplicates of fully maxed characters in their roster was acting far outside the norm of the player base.

    And if you're talking about ascending characters where the second copy was not yet maxed, then you caved in to giving up resources by merging the characters too early. That's no different than someone who is selling off covers because they don't have room to roster another copy now.

    Once you start to max out 4 stars, holding onto them and creating dupes is very much the norm. If I play pvp and a 4 star is the required character, it is very much more beneficial to have a maxed out 4 rather than one with 1 or 2 covers. It makes sense to hold onto the maxed one rather than sell it and roster a 1 cover character. Especially with 4 stars that didn't have a feeder and might end up getting one. You miss out on the retro rewards if you sold it.

    Anything below 4 star is a different story, I would sell maxed 3 stars and roster a single cover all the time.

    No, they weren't all maxed, but quadruple 5 star rewards and having the new 5 star version to use immediately more than made up for it. Even now that there will be no quadruple rewards, that won't stop me from making them into 5 stars with 5 star rewards and 5 star power. This week boosted deadpool and Mr. Fantastic have been awesome. Next week I'm looking forward to using half thor with 5 star 4 star Cyclops. I'd much rather have the fun of using 4 stars that I used to love but had no use for than worry about the handful of covers for some 5 star that I don't care about adding to my 550 collection I will miss.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Ragnarok said:

    @KGB said:

    @Ragnarok said:
    Would anyone ascend 4* without 5* feeders like 4Cage, Red Hulk, Coulson ….?

    Because being able to ascend means you have them at L370. If you have them there, you are WAY into 5* game play, with a good chance you have all the 5* champed and plenty over L500. At that point, getting 6 covers for some newly released 5* if/when they ever make them a feeder just won't matter in the least to your game play compared to being able to use the character in 5* land now.

    KGB

    Thanks.
    I champed most 5*, and have many around lv480 - 500. I only ascend max/max, because I don’t want to missed out any rewards.
    So missing out 6 5* covers is really bad, but then again it’s hard to not knowing when it’s became a feeder.

    Well, there is no way to avoid missing some rewards, right? going max/max ensrues you get all the champion covers, but it's less efficient, so you actually need more covers to get to 550, meaning the 5* champ rewards are actually a bit worse. So now we need to make a determination for each character if the 4* or 5* champ rewards are more important. ugh.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    Whilst this game seems pretty healthy now, who knows what the future holds? It will be a long time before I can ascend anything but 1 & 2's and a few 3's which is why I am not really going to bother waiting to max out any dupes. Gimme the shiny now!

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards

    In the 5* tier, 97% of the 4's don't matter. Even maxed, they're usually meat shields in PvP. I don't heal them most of the time. I use the loaner. The idea that having maxed 4's gives you any kind of advantage is exaggerated at best.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,660 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    To be perfectly blunt, I have yet to see very many ascended 4 stars in high level play. For context, I'm a not-maxed-out 5 star player - my highest level characters are in the 520s, and I typically play boosted 5s or a boosted 5 and one of my top unboosted 5 (frequently MThor, since she's the most versatile.) I've seen a handful of boosted Things, a tiny amount of boosted Deadpools, but that's about it - the vast majority of the teams I've seen are like mine (Star Lord and MThor, this week,) or two boosted 5s.

    There may be some very synergistic boosted 4 star / 5 star teams, but I suspect those will be the exception rather than the rule. For the most part the native residents of the tier are more versatile than ascended characters, which makes them better in more situations. OTOH, it's early yet, and I guess we'll see. For myself, I plan on only ascending two max 4 stars who feed themselves at first -- I may do more if I see them in PVP and/or think they'll be good.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,972 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @KGB said:

    @Vhailorx said:

    @Ragnarok said:

    @KGB said:

    @Ragnarok said:
    Would anyone ascend 4* without 5* feeders like 4Cage, Red Hulk, Coulson ….?

    Because being able to ascend means you have them at L370. If you have them there, you are WAY into 5* game play, with a good chance you have all the 5* champed and plenty over L500. At that point, getting 6 covers for some newly released 5* if/when they ever make them a feeder just won't matter in the least to your game play compared to being able to use the character in 5* land now.

    KGB

    Thanks.
    I champed most 5*, and have many around lv480 - 500. I only ascend max/max, because I don’t want to missed out any rewards.
    So missing out 6 5* covers is really bad, but then again it’s hard to not knowing when it’s became a feeder.

    Well, there is no way to avoid missing some rewards, right? going max/max ensrues you get all the champion covers, but it's less efficient, so you actually need more covers to get to 550, meaning the 5* champ rewards are actually a bit worse. So now we need to make a determination for each character if the 4* or 5* champ rewards are more important. ugh.

    This is where EntrailBucket sleeps well at night because he doesn't worry or care about trying to max out every last tiny bit of rewards. In a way all these discussions remind me of playing RPG games where some players I know would pick up every last bit of armor/weapons etc dropped by dead enemies and sell them for gold even if it took multiple trips to bring it all and even if it was for a pittance of gold.

    Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

    KGB

    I'm not going to put anybody down for playing the game that way if it's what they prefer. I used to be like that -- then I forced myself to stop caring and I found it much, much more fun, for me.

    The issue I'll always have is with folks who feel obligated to play that way, who don't enjoy it. You have options! You can absolutely miss some rewards, and you won't die, and you won't fall behind, or whatever else.

    This is a game, and it's meant to be fun, and if the optimal route isn't fun for you, try something else. It'll be ok.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,972 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @DrClever said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    This is a game, and it's meant to be fun

    That's pure speculation; there's been no official statement to that effect and quite a lot of evidence from these forums that it might not be the case.

    I know it's a pretty dumb, obvious thing to say, but when I see folks complain about too much content, or extra content they don't like, or minor rewards that are too hard to get...it's like, you know you could just not do that stuff, right?

    If grinding out all the rewards or optimizing everything is fun for you, then that sort of stuff should be fun too! If it's not, then maybe you're only doing it because you think you have to...and you really just don't.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DrClever said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    This is a game, and it's meant to be fun

    That's pure speculation; there's been no official statement to that effect and quite a lot of evidence from these forums that it might not be the case.

    See this is why I say bring back Boss Rush! The Devs have a chance to demonstrate that it wasn't a mistake and they really do hate and despise us! But we also might secretly like that spanking....I mean you might like that spanking...I mean Entrailbucket...I... don't quote this....

  • bigjojo04
    bigjojo04 Posts: 419 Mover and Shaker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @DrClever said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    This is a game, and it's meant to be fun

    That's pure speculation; there's been no official statement to that effect and quite a lot of evidence from these forums that it might not be the case.

    I know it's a pretty dumb, obvious thing to say, but when I see folks complain about too much content, or extra content they don't like, or minor rewards that are too hard to get...it's like, you know you could just not do that stuff, right?

    If grinding out all the rewards or optimizing everything is fun for you, then that sort of stuff should be fun too! If it's not, then maybe you're only doing it because you think you have to...and you really just don't.

    This man right here always says the things that I’m not smart enough to put into words to express. Bravo to you sir, I tip my cap to you.

  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think some people are afraid of falling behind, so they think they have to complete every event. But more likely (in my case), they want to progress their roster as fast as possible, so they play every event whether they like it or not just to get more rewards.

    If they created a quest where you have to down 100 characters with Bagman’s matches or powers and it rewarded 50 CP, players would do it.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,660 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @DrClever said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    This is a game, and it's meant to be fun

    That's pure speculation; there's been no official statement to that effect and quite a lot of evidence from these forums that it might not be the case.

    See this is why I say bring back Boss Rush! The Devs have a chance to demonstrate that it wasn't a mistake and they really do hate and despise us! But we also might secretly like that spanking....I mean you might like that spanking...I mean Entrailbucket...I... don't quote this....

    I mean, the worst thing about Boss Rush was the scaling, which punishes high level rosters. It's not nearly that bad anymore. OTOH it was an event without even the vaguest hint of theme, and isn't in the least bit fun to play, so honestly isn't worth bringing back.

    "Places of Power" and "The Sinister 600" however, were fun, I thought, and each of those only ran once. Were the rewards too good? I don't know, but it's a bit annoying they haven't gone into regular rotation, at the very least for the variety...

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,660 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @GrimSkald said:
    To be perfectly blunt, I have yet to see very many ascended 4 stars in high level play. For context, I'm a not-maxed-out 5 star player - my highest level characters are in the 520s, and I typically play boosted 5s or a boosted 5 and one of my top unboosted 5 (frequently MThor, since she's the most versatile.) I've seen a handful of boosted Things, a tiny amount of boosted Deadpools, but that's about it - the vast majority of the teams I've seen are like mine (Star Lord and MThor, this week,) or two boosted 5s.

    There may be some very synergistic boosted 4 star / 5 star teams, but I suspect those will be the exception rather than the rule. For the most part the native residents of the tier are more versatile than ascended characters, which makes them better in more situations. OTOH, it's early yet, and I guess we'll see. For myself, I plan on only ascending two max 4 stars who feed themselves at first -- I may do more if I see them in PVP and/or think they'll be good.

    A lot of the 550 rosters in slice 2 have been running 550 Mthor with ascended DP this week. You want to target Mthor first, but then you risk triggering DP black which was hitting for like 60k each time it went off. So you're forced to target DP first and hope Mthor doesn't get out of hand in the time you're going after DP. If DP gets his purple off, Mthor is pretty much guaranteed to destroy all of them hitting you for about 25k damage for each one.

    I didn't see any of those in Slice 4, but I'm also sub 550 MMR so I may not have anyway until reasonably late. That's what I meant by Synergy, but is that team any better than, say, Boosted Star Lord or Gambit with MThor, both of whom add to the Charged tiles Mthor gets to play with -- and both only overlap in one of her colors to boot. I don't know, to be honest. Certainly the latter two teams get more options, which is really what I was referring to.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards

    @GrimSkald said:

    @BriMan2222 said:

    @GrimSkald said:
    To be perfectly blunt, I have yet to see very many ascended 4 stars in high level play. For context, I'm a not-maxed-out 5 star player - my highest level characters are in the 520s, and I typically play boosted 5s or a boosted 5 and one of my top unboosted 5 (frequently MThor, since she's the most versatile.) I've seen a handful of boosted Things, a tiny amount of boosted Deadpools, but that's about it - the vast majority of the teams I've seen are like mine (Star Lord and MThor, this week,) or two boosted 5s.

    There may be some very synergistic boosted 4 star / 5 star teams, but I suspect those will be the exception rather than the rule. For the most part the native residents of the tier are more versatile than ascended characters, which makes them better in more situations. OTOH, it's early yet, and I guess we'll see. For myself, I plan on only ascending two max 4 stars who feed themselves at first -- I may do more if I see them in PVP and/or think they'll be good.

    A lot of the 550 rosters in slice 2 have been running 550 Mthor with ascended DP this week. You want to target Mthor first, but then you risk triggering DP black which was hitting for like 60k each time it went off. So you're forced to target DP first and hope Mthor doesn't get out of hand in the time you're going after DP. If DP gets his purple off, Mthor is pretty much guaranteed to destroy all of them hitting you for about 25k damage for each one.

    I didn't see any of those in Slice 4, but I'm also sub 550 MMR so I may not have anyway until reasonably late. That's what I meant by Synergy, but is that team any better than, say, Boosted Star Lord or Gambit with MThor, both of whom add to the Charged tiles Mthor gets to play with -- and both only overlap in one of her colors to boot. I don't know, to be honest. Certainly the latter two teams get more options, which is really what I was referring to.

    Those teams aren't any better, no. You just target Deadpool first and hope you don't get Thor'd. But that's the same thing for a lot of matchups. There's almost always a "target this one first and hope RNG doesn't feed the other one" nowadays.

  • primetime21
    primetime21 Posts: 90 Match Maker

    I appreciate the heads-up on this time. Ideally I'd like 14 days heads-up as that helps plans with covers. For example, I have two fully champed 4* Luke Cage and I just got another cover. Knowing he's ascendable on Monday, I'm waiting for then. Otherwise, I may have started a new one. Having two weeks heads up would give us time to save any covers in a similar situation. However, baby steps, and even the few day heads-up is helpful.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    Alternatively being able to turn any character you haven't had champ rewards for back into covers would work - you'd've bought the roster slot but that would have happened eventually anyway.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DrClever said:
    Alternatively being able to turn any character you haven't had champ rewards for back into covers would work - you'd've bought the roster slot but that would have happened eventually anyway.

    That'd also work for triples etc, so that's an awesome idea.

  • Jinx
    Jinx Posts: 295 Mover and Shaker

    New goal in life: Ascend Mordo. Just tested him out with Wong and GR5 and the results, even with his 4* version, we’re amazing. He’s already a big nuker in 4* form and an excellent feeder for GRs huge black nuke. Wong boosts everything they do by 30% plus strikes. He can take Kamar Taj and let Wong use a different support for pve. Fun team.

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