Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

KGB

@entrailbucket said:
Eh, she'd still easily do 100k+ on her red and yellow, unboosted. I'm not sure the boardshake is the best thing she does -- she can also just straight up murder you.

The passive board shake that specifically targets specials makes her a beloved character in PvE in CL10 against goons, mindless ones, sentries etc.

KGB

kuntilanak

MThor's 'effective' passive every turn that collects TONS of APs is the elephant in the room when facing her. BUT if you take away that from her, and she only board-shakes when firing her power, it will be regarded as 'heavy handed' nerf which I believe the community at large will be up in arms... I'm not bothered with her removing specials every turn, just the AP collecting part. my experience is that she (the AI) almost always gets 8 yellow and/or 6 red and/or 7 blue by turn 3-4... very annoying...

in short, i'm not advocating nerfing her, but also have no idea how to 'balance' her... maybe like others said, make an effective 'counter' against her... hmm...

revskip

@Vhailorx said:

@revskip said:

@Philbert101 said:
They don’t need to “nerf” MThor to pull her teeth. Just change her passive so that it doesn’t fire every round regardless of the ap pool. Only after she fires a power.
That gives a person a few rounds to protect those special tiles and form a defense/remove her.

That's the exact change I'd like to see. Make her board shake conditional with firing powers rather than passive every turn PLUS when she fires powers. That little change would fix the OP part of her kit which is the random cascades she causes starting turn 1 for free.

This is nerfing the single best thing about her. Her passive boardshake is far and away her best attribute. The fact that her actives are all decent or better is nice. But she is viable with just the boardshake.

I honestly don't know exactly how she would play after this change (I suspect the answer is "good when boosted"), but suggesting this is something other than a "nerf" is absurd.

The thing that makes her OP is the passive board shake. The active powers are all good and cheap on their own and still have synergy with a bunch of different characters. She would still be able to control countdown creators and SAP creators with her active powers. The passive board shake is a bonkers power, you essentially get 1* Juggernaut's 6 AP power for free every turn for the entire match. That is way out of balance with what other 5*s can do.

I'd suspect removing the passive would move her from God Tier to merely S tier. Which is good and healthy for the boosted meta. No unboosted characters should be punching up as much as she is.

Bad

Juggernaut 1* at 5 level: destroys 16 tiles dealing damage with them.
Mthor at level 5: destroys 1 adjacent tile next to a charged tile, not dealing damage nor gaining AP.
What a difference isn't it? (Yeah, I know, let's nerf jugg 1!).
I think the answer is pretty easy: just match or destroy charged tiles and she can't do nothing.
I think I already suggested that in this thread lol. So it's becoming repetitive.
Oh, by the way, are there still people attached to the past thinking that natural 5s are OP anymore?

DrClever

@kuntilanak said:
I'm not bothered with her removing specials every turn

Whereas I'm only bothered by that - that's the thing that makes too many playstyles unworkable against her as things stand

@Bad said:
Juggernaut 1* at 5 level: destroys 16 tiles dealing damage with them.
Mthor at level 5: destroys 1 adjacent tile next to a charged tile, not dealing damage nor gaining AP.
What a difference isn't it?

Juggs power is not passive and does not target special tiles, so yeah.

Oh, by the way, are there still people attached to the past thinking that natural 5*s are OP anymore?

Depends on your level. If you are in 3/4* territory and a 5* MThor makes all your strong teams unusable (or vastly stronger if you are lucky enough to have it yourself) then yes, it's natural five stars you care about as no one has ascended four stars.

At your level it's different.

DrClever

Bad again
I think the answer is pretty easy: just match or destroy charged tiles and she can't do nothing.

This is the right approach of course but easier said than done.

Bad

@DrClever said:

Depends on your level. If you are in 3/4* territory and a 5* MThor makes all your strong teams unusable (or vastly stronger if you are lucky enough to have it yourself) then yes, it's natural five stars you care about as no one has ascended four stars.

At your level it's different.

There are many offers and people buying them. To the point I know MMR doesn't separate supporting players and f2p. So you can expect to see them soon, and not only 1* ascended to 5.
Mthor won't be nerfed because of the many reasons already repeated and because was fan favorite and everyone went for her so the outrage would be max.
You'd do better asking for counters for her. Better use of energy and time

Bad

@DrClever said:

@Bad said:
Juggernaut 1* at 5 level: destroys 16 tiles dealing damage with them.
Mthor at level 5: destroys 1 adjacent tile next to a charged tile, not dealing damage nor gaining AP.
What a difference isn't it?

Juggs power is not passive and does not target special tiles, so yeah.

If you think that comparation is right, then you are another one making a huge hyperbole or simply misleading.

Zalasta

I wonder how an ascended Cosmo would do against her. Cosmos blue would reduce her AP accumulation, and shut down her powers until the next turn (assuming she matches or destroys a charged tile).

entrailbucket

@Zalasta said:
I wonder how an ascended Cosmo would do against her. Cosmos blue would reduce her AP accumulation, and shut down her powers until the next turn (assuming she matches or destroys a charged tile).

Ascended Cosmo will completely shut her down, I think.

Ascended Alligator Loki is already very good at it -- I tried him out and it works pretty well.

Bad

I've just fought Mthor SC in cyclops pvp with kingpin and Omega. I know, I love to live dangerously!
I matched one charged tile, she almost didn't destroy any sap, omega repeater neither.
I destroyed her with just match damage.
What an OP character is mthor! She gave me sweet an easy points, people in this thread should be amazed!
Just saying.

entrailbucket

Maybe if she's the best boardshake/anti ALL special tiles character, she shouldn't also do 200,000 damage for 6 AP on her active powers?

KGB

As a developer, I know you can code almost anything.

They could code her board shake passive so that the destruction doesn't generate any matches at all (thus no free AP), it just destroys a few tiles and shakes the board up (similar to Quakes board rearrangement that doesn't generate any matches).

KGB

BriMan2222

@entrailbucket said:
Maybe if she's the best boardshake/anti ALL special tiles character, she shouldn't also do 200,000 damage for 6 AP on her active powers?

Her red usually hits me for like 30k, if she's able to use it at all. You are leaving off the part where she hits for 200k only after she has been able to fire her powers many times previously to achieve the conditions of having destroyed enough charge tiles for the extra damage.

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:
Maybe if she's the best boardshake/anti ALL special tiles character, she shouldn't also do 200,000 damage for 6 AP on her active powers?

Her red usually hits me for like 30k, if she's able to use it at all. You are leaving off the part where she hits for 200k only after she has been able to fire her powers many times previously to achieve the conditions of having destroyed enough charge tiles for the extra damage.

Sorta, but mostly I meant on offense. The best boardshake character shouldn't also be the best anti special tile character and the best damage character.

Bad

@entrailbucket said:

Sorta, but mostly I meant on offense. The best boardshake character shouldn't also be the best anti special tile character and the best damage character.

Anti special tile usually is pretty much included in boardshake character.
And in order to deal 200k damage, a lot of turns are needed.
There are already a lot of slow characters who can deal given time 200k damage.
And pvp is about speed.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
Maybe if she's the best boardshake/anti ALL special tiles character, she shouldn't also do 200,000 damage for 6 AP on her active powers?

She doesn't for most players entrail. Maybe your perception is being warped by having her at 550?

For me in baby champ land her red is kinda bad for damage output until the very end of a long match (when I might have destroyed dozens of charged tiles). And even then she might be doing 80-100k unboosted. That's nice in the abstract, but in practice it's not really available until way too late in the match to be a primary strategy.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
Eh, she'd still easily do 100k+ on her red and yellow, unboosted. I'm not sure the boardshake is the best thing she does -- she can also just straight up murder you.

There are lots and lots of characters that can straight up murder opponents. There are not a lot of characters that provide substantial, passive boardshake. That is the thing that makes her stand out.

entrailbucket

@Vhailorx said:

@entrailbucket said:
Eh, she'd still easily do 100k+ on her red and yellow, unboosted. I'm not sure the boardshake is the best thing she does -- she can also just straight up murder you.

There are lots and lots of characters that can straight up murder opponents. There are not a lot of characters that provide substantial, passive boardshake. That is the thing that makes her stand out.

The point was that characters that do substantial, passive boardshake and removal to that level should probably not also do huge damage for cheap.

DrClever

@Bad said:
Mthor won't be nerfed...
You'd do better asking for counters for her.

?

That's precisely what I've suggested from the start.

My point there was just that for a lot of players ascended 4* characters just won't be seen whereas natural 5s will, and will be difficult.