Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

System
System Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
This discussion was created from comments split from: 10th Anniversary Community Challenge - Stretch Goals.
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  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    @mani82 said:
    So we are getting the stone and Mthor rebalance lol

    That would be rad! Bring the hammer down on the hammer lady.

  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 603 Critical Contributor

    Serious question... Will we just be asking for nerf after nerf of whomever is on top?

    Chasm got nerfed, now Jane is on the block, who's next after she gets relegated to boost only use?

    I'm not arguing on favor of, or against, nerfs. Nor am I saying chasm needed, or didn't... (Or Jane does or doesn't)... Need a nerf.

    I'm asking, realistically, what's next?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Blackstone said:
    Serious question... Will we just be asking for nerf after nerf of whomever is on top?

    Chasm got nerfed, now Jane is on the block, who's next after she gets relegated to boost only use?

    I'm not arguing on favor of, or against, nerfs. Nor am I saying chasm needed, or didn't... (Or Jane does or doesn't)... Need a nerf.

    I'm asking, realistically, what's next?

    I can't answer for "we," because I'm an outlier on this particular topic, but I think everything about the game would get better if characters at each star tier were relatively balanced.

    The boosts helped vary the metagame a lot, because mediocre characters get very good at +100 levels. Some characters are still too good, though, and we'll see that when they're regularly used over boosted characters.

    I don't think Thor is there yet, but I think they should keep a close eye on her. She's very strong and could easily take over the game like Chasm did.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2023

    @fnedude said:
    5Jane isn't overpowered, she can easily be defeated if you target her first. Yes the AI can get some cascades and the fight can go south easily (especially w/ SC). But she's not nearly the PITA as Chasm was.

    its just she's OP with some combos (5Jane+Onslaught+SC in Shield Sim). But still defeatable.

    People stopped complaining about hulkoye once Wanda was released and completely shut them down. I think the problem with mthor is just that people haven't realized yet that her counter already exists.

    With the boost week not being so great this week I'm seeing tons of mthor/shang teams and I've been climbing off them easily with p5 collosus. He shrugs off their match damage, even when the ai lucks into a crit tile in a purple or red match, and he loves using thors own charged tiles to boost his already awesome match damage.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards

    Eh, Colossus can get shredded by her crazy power damage though.

    Her real counters are Ascended Alligator Loki and Ascended Cosmo (not available yet). Go read their powers, it's ok, you forgot what they did.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    Eh, Colossus can get shredded by her crazy power damage though.

    Her real counters are Ascended Alligator Loki and Ascended Cosmo (not available yet). Go read their powers, it's ok, you forgot what they did.

    The ai is usually dumb enough to use shangs red and destroy a bunch of random tiles to no effect, and her red or yellow don't usually do too much unless she's gotten the chance to fire multiple powers and get alot of charged tiles on the board.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,019 Chairperson of the Boards

    @fnedude said:
    5Jane isn't overpowered, she can easily be defeated if you target her first. Yes the AI can get some cascades and the fight can go south easily (especially w/ SC). But she's not nearly the PITA as Chasm was.

    its just she's OP with some combos (5Jane+Onslaught+SC in Shield Sim). But still defeatable.

    Jane is way more of a PITA than Chasm was. A Chasm match was a long match that needed you to have an AOE available at the end or a character who could negate the revive of which there were plenty by the time they nerfed him. I never wiped to a Chasm team with a crazy first turn cascade. Sure it might hurt but he wasn't downing three characters turn 1. The matches were long but as long as you knew what you needed going in very nearly always winnable. Chasm by himself was a cupcake win, only when paired with another reviver did it really even take preparation.

    Jane paired with Riri or Shang can turn into a quick loss on turn 1 with just one bad cascade and Jane herself is the one causing that cascade with a passive ability and/or any of her active abilities. Jane requires 0 skill to occasionally get this turn 1 wins and the AI is very, very good at using her mindless board shake to fuel either of those two pairings. And even in other sub-optimal pairings she can get lucky with her board shake and do it all by herself. She fires her powers in exactly the right order to maximize damage. She's more OP than Chasm ever was but because she is fast the sniper crowd loves her.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,994 Chairperson of the Boards

    @revskip said:

    @fnedude said:
    5Jane isn't overpowered, she can easily be defeated if you target her first. Yes the AI can get some cascades and the fight can go south easily (especially w/ SC). But she's not nearly the PITA as Chasm was.

    its just she's OP with some combos (5Jane+Onslaught+SC in Shield Sim). But still defeatable.

    Jane is way more of a PITA than Chasm was. A Chasm match was a long match that needed you to have an AOE available at the end or a character who could negate the revive of which there were plenty by the time they nerfed him. I never wiped to a Chasm team with a crazy first turn cascade. Sure it might hurt but he wasn't downing three characters turn 1. The matches were long but as long as you knew what you needed going in very nearly always winnable. Chasm by himself was a cupcake win, only when paired with another reviver did it really even take preparation.

    Jane paired with Riri or Shang can turn into a quick loss on turn 1 with just one bad cascade and Jane herself is the one causing that cascade with a passive ability and/or any of her active abilities. Jane requires 0 skill to occasionally get this turn 1 wins and the AI is very, very good at using her mindless board shake to fuel either of those two pairings. And even in other sub-optimal pairings she can get lucky with her board shake and do it all by herself. She fires her powers in exactly the right order to maximize damage. She's more OP than Chasm ever was but because she is fast the sniper crowd loves her.

    Seeing as she’s a fan favorite I’d argue many other players love her.

  • meteor0905
    meteor0905 Posts: 64 Match Maker

    It would be fun to nerf Jane when someppls all in for her

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @revskip said:

    @fnedude said:
    5Jane isn't overpowered, she can easily be defeated if you target her first. Yes the AI can get some cascades and the fight can go south easily (especially w/ SC). But she's not nearly the PITA as Chasm was.

    its just she's OP with some combos (5Jane+Onslaught+SC in Shield Sim). But still defeatable.

    Jane is way more of a PITA than Chasm was. A Chasm match was a long match that needed you to have an AOE available at the end or a character who could negate the revive of which there were plenty by the time they nerfed him. I never wiped to a Chasm team with a crazy first turn cascade. Sure it might hurt but he wasn't downing three characters turn 1. The matches were long but as long as you knew what you needed going in very nearly always winnable. Chasm by himself was a cupcake win, only when paired with another reviver did it really even take preparation.

    Jane paired with Riri or Shang can turn into a quick loss on turn 1 with just one bad cascade and Jane herself is the one causing that cascade with a passive ability and/or any of her active abilities. Jane requires 0 skill to occasionally get this turn 1 wins and the AI is very, very good at using her mindless board shake to fuel either of those two pairings. And even in other sub-optimal pairings she can get lucky with her board shake and do it all by herself. She fires her powers in exactly the right order to maximize damage. She's more OP than Chasm ever was but because she is fast the sniper crowd loves her.

    Seeing as she’s a fan favorite I’d argue many other players love her.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @Borstock said:
    If you're going to nerf Jane, you might as well take Shang, too.

    I disagree in that Shang is just powerful in himself, but doesn't negate any playing styles whereas MThor makes SAP and countdown / repeater teams useless.

    That said, I don't think the answer is a nerf for MThor necessarily - I'd rather have changes elsewhere that make those team types more viable against her or that make some other type (traps would be good) a really strong counter.

    In the latest pick 3 I didn't see any teams that didn't feature MThor - she's not as boring to play against as Chasm was but facing the same character time after time is not great for the game.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Let's nerf Mthor. But after that, let's nerf chasm again (he's still really strong and nobody selling him is the golden proof of what that rebalance has been). Then let's nerf SC for being a glass Cannon capable of punching high. And without a stop let's nerf okoye for the same reason.
    So the 3 fan favorites this year plus chasm again.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:
    I actually prefer losing to MT quickly than having the old-Chasm slog where it was 50/50 if you won. At least with MT you just move on.

    All I know is that I never skip over a team with MT in PVP.

    So much this.

  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 293 Mover and Shaker

    It’s nice to see that people aren’t still asking for Kitty to be nerfed..

    I actually seek out and prefer to hit mThor teams in PvP. It’s usually much faster that the weekly boosted teams, and for more points. While I do suffer the occasional loss, it’s usually right away, and the point loss is minimal.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards

    Buffs not Nerfs!!!!!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards

    If a character is overused, they should be nerfed until they're not. Nobody should be so strong that they're consistently used over characters 100+ levels higher than them.

    Interestingly, "high usage rate" was the ONLY criteria cited by IceIX when asked how they decide who to nerf. Not defensive strength, not "fun," not fan favorite-ness.

    If you want Thor to escape the nerf hammer, use someone else! If you use her for everything, then YOU will be the reason she's nerfed.

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