Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

1…6791112…26

Comments

  • StanleyBurrell
    StanleyBurrell Posts: 143 Tile Toppler

    Overall PvP seems to be in a good spot imo. Everything can be slapped by different teams.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @StanleyBurrell said:
    Overall PvP seems to be in a good spot imo. Everything can be slapped by different teams.

    I agree with this. As long as, generally, the boosted characters are the best by a lot, we'll get a diverse meta that shifts week to week. That's what's happening now.

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    @kuntilanak said:

    @StanleyBurrell said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    That's why you bring Colossus to a Shang Jane fight.

    So much this. Colossus punches Jane into oblivion.

    yeah, in a million years' time :D

    @Scofie said:

    @entrailbucket said:

    I do think there's room for defensive characters in this game, but here's how it should work: defensive characters should be terrible on offense. That's balance. We've never had that. The good characters are just really really good all the time, and all that means is that they're too strong.

    That's because PvE is more "popular" (played more). A defensive character is largely pointless unless you're massively punching up on the SCL and can't afford the health packs. And even then it's going to take forever. I rarely ever play with defensive characters because they're not fun for me and I can't remember a time where I think "I wish I took less damage there" compared to "I'm glad I have a rainbow-coloured nuke arsenal".

    so true. i champed 5Colossus and 5Switch when moving to PVE SCL 10 after much grinding in SCL 9 and deem the rewards not worth it. harder matches took forever to win. and the RNG always make my Switch tile 'matchable' so easily...

    If you consider like 4 turns to be "a million years" you must be very impatient

  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards

    Bad luck can make you lose a match, or at least a health pack or two. When it comes to MThor, bad luck happens more often, unlike any other character.

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 492 Mover and Shaker

    @bbigler said:
    Bad luck can make you lose a match, or at least a health pack or two. When it comes to MThor, bad luck happens more often, unlike any other character.

    Just wait until Teen Jean ascends and you can't make a move against her without making a match-5 :p

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @Timemachinego said:

    @bbigler said:
    Bad luck can make you lose a match, or at least a health pack or two. When it comes to MThor, bad luck happens more often, unlike any other character.

    Just wait until Teen Jean ascends and you can't make a move against her without making a match-5 :p

    We really really need Teen Jean's power on a support. It's one of the things I've long been hoping for.

    KGB

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 522 Critical Contributor

    Story time ...

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards

    If I were to rebalance her, (and I'm not positive she needs it even though I find her frustrating to play against) my only change would be for her to not prioritize special tiles when she pops tiles. She could still destroy them but would not be guaranteed to destroy them.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @StanleyBurrell said:
    Overall PvP seems to be in a good spot imo. Everything can be slapped by different teams.

    I agree with this. As long as, generally, the boosted characters are the best by a lot, we'll get a diverse meta that shifts week to week. That's what's happening now.

    That's not what I'm seeing at my MMR (490 ish). Shang-Chi/Jane all over the place and that combo is winning against double boosted. Had a retal match go sideways on turn 3 today running boosted Doc Ock and Panther. That team saw the double boosted team, laughed at it, beat it and then wiped them again on the retal.

    In fact just scrolling through my other matches nearly all of them have some combination of Jane in them. If the excuse for taking Chasm out at the knees was that he was too prevalent Jane absolutely hits that metric. If it was because he was too good unboosted Jane hits that metric.

    Passive board shake is massively OP. She'd be fine if you made her blue conditional like every single other character in the tier with board shake.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well, Doc Ock and Panther kinda suck.
    Panther doesn't clap back hard enough, and Ock relies on special tiles, which are... Not good against Jane.
    Use Gladiathor.

  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 285 Mover and Shaker

    @revskip said:
    In fact just scrolling through my other matches nearly all of them have some combination of Jane in them. If the excuse for taking Chasm out at the knees was that he was too prevalent Jane absolutely hits that metric. If it was because he was too good unboosted Jane hits that metric.

    Passive board shake is massively OP. She'd be fine if you made her blue conditional like every single other character in the tier with board shake.

    Chasm wasn’t adjusted because he was to prevalent, he was adjusted because he was so different to beat, especially with the resurrection meta when paired with iHulk and other resurrection toons. Jane is easily beaten, but does occasionally get a lucky cascade. I’m always glad to see Jane in PvP. Those are some fast and easy high point matches.

    A better metric on how OP a character is in PvP might be defensive win rate.

    Jane really isn’t OP, but it would be nice to have a stronger counter. A new 5 star with a power similar to 4* Deadpool’s purple power would end Jane’s reign as meta.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @Bowgentle said:
    Well, Doc Ock and Panther kinda suck.
    Panther doesn't clap back hard enough, and Ock relies on special tiles, which are... Not good against Jane.
    Use Gladiathor.

    Sure this boost week is suboptimal. But last week I was seeing the same thing running StarLord and Strange. Even with Strange punishing Jane with damage for every power fired I was still getting hit by teams running her. If the goal is to have double boosted be the meta then she needs to be tweaked back a bit.

    The same folks who are playing apologist for her would use this same argument when advocating for a nerf of Chasm. "This a good boost week so of course you don't see him run as much".

    Consistency would be nice. I'd prefer for the double boosted teams to be the meta, it keeps it fresh and changes every week. Characters that disrupt that dynamic should be brought back in line to the mean. She clearly disrupts that dynamic and is run all the time at my MMR against double boosted teams. It would be as simple as just removing the passive on her blue. She'd still hit hard as a truck when boosted and would still have plenty of utility.

    @Zalasta said:

    Chasm wasn’t adjusted because he was to prevalent, he was adjusted because he was so different to beat, especially with the resurrection meta when paired with iHulk and other resurrection toons.

    By the time they actually nerfed him there were plenty of very reasonable counters to that team. Including running Jane/Riri. Partly because she is just as OP as he was.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    You were suppose to run Gambit last week.
    If you run Strange you're asking for trouble, he dies to a stiff breeze.

  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    You were suppose to run Gambit last week.
    If you run Strange you're asking for trouble, he dies to a stiff breeze.

    Didn't have Gambit last week. Don't have 1/2 Thor this week. You'd think with 3 out of the 4 double boosted available to me in both weeks that I should have enough firepower to scare off a non-boosted team, no? If not perhaps that non-boosted team should be nerfed a bit, no? Because by the reasoning used to take out Chasm was that unboosted toons shouldn't be savaging double boosted teams.

    I mean that was the reasoning sombunall folks had for nerfing Chasm.

  • nwahs086
    nwahs086 Posts: 89 Match Maker

    @Zalasta said:

    @revskip said:
    In fact just scrolling through my other matches nearly all of them have some combination of Jane in them. If the excuse for taking Chasm out at the knees was that he was too prevalent Jane absolutely hits that metric. If it was because he was too good unboosted Jane hits that metric.

    Passive board shake is massively OP. She'd be fine if you made her blue conditional like every single other character in the tier with board shake.

    Chasm wasn’t adjusted because he was to prevalent, he was adjusted because he was so different to beat, especially with the resurrection meta when paired with iHulk and other resurrection toons. Jane is easily beaten, but does occasionally get a lucky cascade. I’m always glad to see Jane in PvP. Those are some fast and easy high point matches.

    A better metric on how OP a character is in PvP might be defensive win rate.

    Jane really isn’t OP, but it would be nice to have a stronger counter. A new 5 star with a power similar to 4* Deadpool’s purple power would end Jane’s reign as meta.

    Ascended 4 star Deadpool?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @revskip said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    You were suppose to run Gambit last week.
    If you run Strange you're asking for trouble, he dies to a stiff breeze.

    Didn't have Gambit last week. Don't have 1/2 Thor this week. You'd think with 3 out of the 4 double boosted available to me in both weeks that I should have enough firepower to scare off a non-boosted team, no? If not perhaps that non-boosted team should be nerfed a bit, no? Because by the reasoning used to take out Chasm was that unboosted toons shouldn't be savaging double boosted teams.

    I mean that was the reasoning sombunall folks had for nerfing Chasm.

    I don't really care if she's nerfed.
    I have her at 550, I haven't used her in weeks.
    But no, I don't think having bad 5s boosted should put you into untouchable God mode.

  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 285 Mover and Shaker

    @nwahs086 said:

    @Zalasta said:

    @revskip said:
    In fact just scrolling through my other matches nearly all of them have some combination of Jane in them. If the excuse for taking Chasm out at the knees was that he was too prevalent Jane absolutely hits that metric. If it was because he was too good unboosted Jane hits that metric.

    Passive board shake is massively OP. She'd be fine if you made her blue conditional like every single other character in the tier with board shake.

    Chasm wasn’t adjusted because he was to prevalent, he was adjusted because he was so different to beat, especially with the resurrection meta when paired with iHulk and other resurrection toons. Jane is easily beaten, but does occasionally get a lucky cascade. I’m always glad to see Jane in PvP. Those are some fast and easy high point matches.

    A better metric on how OP a character is in PvP might be defensive win rate.

    Jane really isn’t OP, but it would be nice to have a stronger counter. A new 5 star with a power similar to 4* Deadpool’s purple power would end Jane’s reign as meta.

    Ascended 4 star Deadpool?

    Maybe. I guess we'll see what happens when the reports start coming in. I'm not in a position to do so yet. In any event, it can be easier to roster/champ a new 5-star than it would be for most people to ascend a 4-star character to use as a counter.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2023

    @nwahs086 said:

    @Zalasta said:

    @revskip said:
    In fact just scrolling through my other matches nearly all of them have some combination of Jane in them. If the excuse for taking Chasm out at the knees was that he was too prevalent Jane absolutely hits that metric. If it was because he was too good unboosted Jane hits that metric.

    Passive board shake is massively OP. She'd be fine if you made her blue conditional like every single other character in the tier with board shake.

    Chasm wasn’t adjusted because he was to prevalent, he was adjusted because he was so different to beat, especially with the resurrection meta when paired with iHulk and other resurrection toons. Jane is easily beaten, but does occasionally get a lucky cascade. I’m always glad to see Jane in PvP. Those are some fast and easy high point matches.

    A better metric on how OP a character is in PvP might be defensive win rate.

    Jane really isn’t OP, but it would be nice to have a stronger counter. A new 5 star with a power similar to 4* Deadpool’s purple power would end Jane’s reign as meta.

    Ascended 4 star Deadpool?

    Dp's purple is great against fosthor, but you have to survive her turn. What we really need is something like the sybiant mutant's passive that immediately does damage for friendly tile destruction. That would be a very good counter to Jane, just pair that passive damage with someone who can flood the board with specials. Then fosthor will kill herself.

    Overall I agree with zalasta. The problem with chasm is that he was difficult and not very fun to play against. Fosthor is occasionally frustrating when she gets a mega cascade. But to me it feels like fighting gritty back in 2018. It can punish you quickly if the ai gets board luck, but there are plenty of viable ways to fight them with a good chance of success.

  • kuntilanak
    kuntilanak Posts: 90 Match Maker

    The issue with MThor is that her passive not only gotten rid of special tiles very effectively, but also collects TONS of APs due to 'lucky' cascades afterwards. In that. her team will decimate the opponent very easily. But somehow that's pretty common when the AI controls her. I have her champed but rarely uses her as she doesn't process cascades as often as the AI does. YMMV.

    The same issue can be said for those characters being nerfed to the ground, like Gambit, Bishop and Worthy Cap. I was there when Gambit reigned terror as PVP queues where full of 3Gambit at 0-0-5 + Miles and Spider-Gwen, which by turn 3, you loose regardless, because this particular 3Gambit build generates tons of red + purple (pink? I dunno...) APs every turn without any drawbacks and the other 2 just stun locks the opponent team, both in offense and defense.

    Bishop and Worthy Cap generate APs under certain conditions, but those conditions were VERY EASILY TRIGGERED. Essentially their team gets truck loads of APs in just 2-3 turns (in the case of Worthy Cap, with the right partners), which then decimates opponents immediately, again both in offense and defense.

    So they're nerfed to oblivion.

    MThor is fairly similar to the above situations, but not as prominent, and you can beat her fairly easily with certain characters and tag-on boosts, so I don't see the dev will do anything about it. After all, higher usage of health packs and boosts = more sales -> profit...? :D

Categories