Prevalence of MThor and could she be the target of a rebalance?

entrailbucket

@Daredevil217 said:

@Tony_Foot said:

@Bad said:

However it's funny that you hate so much cascades yet you take SC, Mthor and half health thor.

Jesus, people hated chasm they still used him, people hated gambit they still used him. 99% of the time I use Half Thor Shang and Valk but this was in Sim and I was trying it out. Is that ok with you?

But this is the issue. Everyone complains about the best thing while using only that thing. Then once nerfed or something better is released, everyone moves on to the next best thing (while complaining) because there will always be a next best thing. This game has never and will never be balanced. So removing one character means another steps up in its place and everyone plays that. The funny thing is that people complained about Polaris, Thor, Okoye, Switch, Colossus, Kitty, Bill, iHulk, Kang, Shang-Cheese and probably many more I’m failing to remember. None of them got nerfed. I don’t know if people realize, but nerfs are actually really rare in this game. Only the really bad offenders have been hit, and I just don’t see Jane being one of them personally. The devs may disagree but I think this is a character they can be proud of.

Except that's not what's happening, at all. Thor is good, and she's better than everyone else, but if you're using her for everything all the time you're at a pretty major disadvantage. It's not like Chasm where at 550 he could trivially stomp 672 boosted guys, and 672 boosted guys had trouble beating him.

In a boosted metagame, unboosted Thor is a speed bump. I can boost match damage and kill her in like 2 moves. Yes, she has a chance of going off, and yes, sometimes players can beat me with her, but usually not.

Chasm was actually a problem in a boosted metagame -- relying on him to do everything for you was optimal because he was as good or better than boosted guys. Going all in on Chasm was a ticket to winning everything forever. Going all in on Thor is...not.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

kuntilanak

Talking about MThor, I almost never use her, especially on mirror match, as the AI will benefit from your own charged tiles right from the start due to how the game is coded. Coupled with the AI's 'cheap' cascades, it's very common for the AI to have enough APs to decimate you after Turn 2-3. I have her champed, and I find her pretty useful in PVE, but I have my own team that I like using over her. Sure I can stomp her fairly frequently with my fav team, but the fact that she can wipe my team pretty easily in the AI's hand and forcing you to use health packs and delay your push in PVP is really feeling like 'you're suppose to lose' phase way back when...

StanleyBurrell

@Bowgentle said:
That's why you bring Colossus to a Shang Jane fight.

So much this. Colossus punches Jane into oblivion.

BriMan2222

@StanleyBurrell said:

@Bowgentle said:
That's why you bring Colossus to a Shang Jane fight.

So much this. Colossus punches Jane into oblivion.

This is what I been saying.

bbigler

I’m about to champ Colossus, so I’ll try that

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

Or better yet don't exaggerate so much?

Bowgentle

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

Or better yet don't exaggerate so much?

You can't expect him to change after ten years.

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:

I do think there's room for defensive characters in this game, but here's how it should work: defensive characters should be terrible on offense. That's balance. We've never had that. The good characters are just really really good all the time, and all that means is that they're too strong.

That's because PvE is more "popular" (played more). A defensive character is largely pointless unless you're massively punching up on the SCL and can't afford the health packs. And even then it's going to take forever. I rarely ever play with defensive characters because they're not fun for me and I can't remember a time where I think "I wish I took less damage there" compared to "I'm glad I have a rainbow-coloured nuke arsenal".

DAZ0273

@Bowgentle said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

Or better yet don't exaggerate so much?

You can't expect him to change after ten years.

I guess not. I feel bad that I made him go find 162 examples though and still fail, sorry EB!

DAZ0273

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

I do think there's room for defensive characters in this game, but here's how it should work: defensive characters should be terrible on offense. That's balance. We've never had that. The good characters are just really really good all the time, and all that means is that they're too strong.

That's because PvE is more "popular" (played more). A defensive character is largely pointless unless you're massively punching up on the SCL and can't afford the health packs. And even then it's going to take forever. I rarely ever play with defensive characters because they're not fun for me and I can't remember a time where I think "I wish I took less damage there" compared to "I'm glad I have a rainbow-coloured nuke arsenal".

I knew you was an honoury Gooner!

kuntilanak

@StanleyBurrell said:

@Bowgentle said:
That's why you bring Colossus to a Shang Jane fight.

So much this. Colossus punches Jane into oblivion.

yeah, in a million years' time

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

I do think there's room for defensive characters in this game, but here's how it should work: defensive characters should be terrible on offense. That's balance. We've never had that. The good characters are just really really good all the time, and all that means is that they're too strong.

That's because PvE is more "popular" (played more). A defensive character is largely pointless unless you're massively punching up on the SCL and can't afford the health packs. And even then it's going to take forever. I rarely ever play with defensive characters because they're not fun for me and I can't remember a time where I think "I wish I took less damage there" compared to "I'm glad I have a rainbow-coloured nuke arsenal".

so true. i champed 5Colossus and 5Switch when moving to PVE SCL 10 after much grinding in SCL 9 and deem the rewards not worth it. harder matches took forever to win. and the RNG always make my Switch tile 'matchable' so easily...

Bad

It's just the rng factor. Players never will remember those times shen Mthor cascade benefit them, or when they got a lot of charged tiles and won the battle easily. They'll always remember when Mthor wiped them out (always after many turns without finishing her and probably mirroring her).
On the other hand devs could fix the meta in the moment they wanted releasing a 5* with a passive destroying chargeds (and a decent synergic tool kit), instead of more characters developing charged meta.
It's just as easy as that.

LavaManLee

This is why I think MTs best partner is SC. With SC, you can play against other MT without worrying too much. Your MT should help get his Red/Pink going and then hopefully limit the turns the other MT has to take. If you boost before the match, even better.

DAZ0273

I fight Jane all the time because she is everywhere and I normally win but it isn't a guarantee and that is the way I figure it should be. There shouldn't be a 100% win ratio against the best characters because then they aren't the best. It is a shame though that diversity of opponents suffers but players are always going to play their best hand and I have to admit feedback on these forums sort of shows that for some players there is a genuine fear of losing even just one battle. I dunno how you fix that but nerfing Jane wont help because eventually you will just go back to Switch/Colossus until the next new shiny pops up. I would rather take on the Jane/Shang teams who might one shot you but normally it goes pretty fast over a drawn out slog to defeat.

But that is just me.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

Or better yet don't exaggerate so much?

How many times have I exaggerated on here? Can you find 20 examples in the last month?

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Vhailorx said:

@Tony_Foot said:
Just match charged tiles apparently. The sheer number of times I cannot match them. Or like this one, match the charge tiles on my first turn. The AI first turn game over.

I would definitely like to see a rework. She shuts down too many other character abilities with far too much upside and zero thought. It's almost impossible for the AI to get it wrong like they can with Shang or other powerful characters. Yes I can often beat her but no one damages my whole team like she can. I'm happy for her to stay as she is but build a character than really punishes cascades in the 5* tier or shuts down her AP generation.

This is just another way of saying "I don't like when the AI wins PVP matches."

I'll extend this further -- everyone hates it when the AI wins matches at all.

The dev team said "you're supposed to lose" 9 YEARS AGO (this was in reference to the first run of the Galactus boss event) and players still fling that at them almost every single day.

Link to this happening on any media at least 10 times in say the last two months please?

I found 162 instances of this exact phrase on the forum, with 10 or so in the last two years. I'm sure it's been quoted inexactly at least as often.

Were there 10 in the last two months? No. Is it some kind of sick own that you've challenged my hyperbole here? Also no. Players throw this phrase at them all the time, including quite recently from Quandary.

I'll make sure to challenge everyone's hyperbole from now on with requests for exact counts, though.

Or better yet don't exaggerate so much?

How many times have I exaggerated on here? Can you find 20 examples in the last month?

Lol, I'll leave that to all the other players who spend all their time threatening to kill the Devs!

StanleyBurrell

Overall PvP seems to be in a good spot imo. Everything can be slapped by different teams.

entrailbucket

@StanleyBurrell said:
Overall PvP seems to be in a good spot imo. Everything can be slapped by different teams.

I agree with this. As long as, generally, the boosted characters are the best by a lot, we'll get a diverse meta that shifts week to week. That's what's happening now.

BriMan2222

@kuntilanak said:

@StanleyBurrell said:

@Bowgentle said:
That's why you bring Colossus to a Shang Jane fight.

So much this. Colossus punches Jane into oblivion.

yeah, in a million years' time

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

I do think there's room for defensive characters in this game, but here's how it should work: defensive characters should be terrible on offense. That's balance. We've never had that. The good characters are just really really good all the time, and all that means is that they're too strong.

That's because PvE is more "popular" (played more). A defensive character is largely pointless unless you're massively punching up on the SCL and can't afford the health packs. And even then it's going to take forever. I rarely ever play with defensive characters because they're not fun for me and I can't remember a time where I think "I wish I took less damage there" compared to "I'm glad I have a rainbow-coloured nuke arsenal".

so true. i champed 5Colossus and 5Switch when moving to PVE SCL 10 after much grinding in SCL 9 and deem the rewards not worth it. harder matches took forever to win. and the RNG always make my Switch tile 'matchable' so easily...

If you consider like 4 turns to be "a million years" you must be very impatient