New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

Bad

I vaguely remember @ThaRoadWarrior started opening consistently CLs more or less 2 years ago isn't it?

ThaRoadWarrior

if only there were some way to know for sure...

I went back and checked the tapes, I've been all-in on CL since Januray 2023, but i'd been dabbling with it whenever I got caught up on LL and got bored waiting for the rotation for at least the previous year.
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/81450/grand-experiment-2-treading-water-in-the-scl-10-post-shardpocalypse/p42

Chrynos1989

@Bowgentle said:
7,5 years daily play on a mobile match 3 toilet game.
Just let that sink in 🤣

That explains the fart sounds during our line calls…

Bad

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
if only there were some way to know for sure...

I went back and checked the tapes, I've been all-in on CL since Januray 2023, but i'd been dabbling with it whenever I got caught up on LL and got bored waiting for the rotation for at least the previous year.
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/81450/grand-experiment-2-treading-water-in-the-scl-10-post-shardpocalypse/p42

Exactly 1 year then.
Well, my point is that the progress you made is about 1 year pulling CL and not 7.

BlixTheFrog

Adding to this CL versus LL conversation : I just noticed that odds for a 5 stars in CL is now 1:6, when it’s 1:7 in LL. Has it always been this way? Because it does add to the "CL instead of LL" column. Just calculated that for 10k CP, that’s a 50% increase on the quantity of 5 stars you get, in addition to all that’s been said before. There’s also the "increased bonus shards" angle to consider.
Thing is, I’m seriously starting to consider unhoarding on CLs. But that might just be because I’m tired of waiting on damn update and Anniversary store. 😂

ThaRoadWarrior

I was pulling all resources out of LL from dec 2018 when Kingpin came out until sometime in 2022 when I started dabbling in Classic. At that time I had no fully covered 5*, but I had everyone on roster. I had about half of the then-available 4* characters champed.

And no, the 1:6 odds went live with the Featured 3 very recently.

entrailbucket

@BlixTheFrog said:
Adding to this CL versus LL conversation : I just noticed that odds for a 5 stars in CL is now 1:6, when it’s 1:7 in LL. Has it always been this way? Because it does add to the "CL instead of LL" column. Just calculated that for 10k CP, that’s a 50% increase on the quantity of 5 stars you get, in addition to all that’s been said before. There’s also the "increased bonus shards" angle to consider.
Thing is, I’m seriously starting to consider unhoarding on CLs. But that might just be because I’m tired of waiting on damn update and Anniversary store. 😂

They changed it, I think it was 2 months ago.

meadowsweet

"R287 Slight Patch Delay"
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/89140/r287-slight-patch-delay

MPQBlaine ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 59 Match Maker
26 September 2023
We are currently waiting on approvals from all available first parties to release. Due to the extensive amount of material for them to comb through, approval is taking a little bit longer than usual.

As soon as it is ready we will push live. We appreciate your patience in the matter, as we know we all want to dive straight into Champions 2.0!

Daredevil217

@bbigler said:
Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start from. Because of this, a Hybrid approach is best for 3-stars. Each tier is different, so here's the best method for each tier:

4-Stars: 370+370
3-Stars: 266+266 => 370+303
2-Stars: 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271
1-Stars: 50+50 => 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271

=======================================================
Using 957 x 3-star covers:

Max+Min Approach => Go up to 550
447,500 Iso-8
25,300 Hero Points
949 Command Points
10 Heroic Token
8 Mighty Token
4 Classic Legends
48 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 86

Max+Max Approach => Go up to 501
544,000 Iso-8
13,600 Hero Points
973 Command Points
20 Heroic Token
16 Mighty Token
8 Classic Legends
53 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 92

Max+Max => Max+Min => Go up to 534
528,500 Iso-8
16,150 Hero Points
963 Command Points
20 Heroic Token
16 Mighty Token
8 Classic Legends
55 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 94

Wait. 266+266 is now optimal again?

Zarqa

On CP vs LL:
I joined the LL train on 1/18/23, and since then have grown my CP from 2000 to over 11k if I take into account what I spent on release stores. (It’s actually 7k now due to release store spending).

I’m almost two years in, have almost everyone rostered, but much less 4s champed than RoadWarrior suggested. I definitely pay to play more than average, but I don’t think that’s what makes it happen.

In other words: you can keep current using LL only even sooner than EB/RoadWarrior suggest.

Edit: I’m in a t25/t50 PvE Alliance and play PvP to 900. I plan to start using CP on Classics after anniversary, and will see how that goes.

entrailbucket

@Zarqa said:
On CL vs LL:
I joined the LL train on 1/18, and since then have grown my CP from 2000 to over 11k if I take out what I spent on release stores. (It’s actually 7k now due to release store spending).

I’m almost two years in, have almost everyone rostered, but much less 4s champed than RoadWarrior suggested. I definitely pay to play more than average, but I don’t think that’s what makes it happen.

In other words: you can keep current using LL only even sooner than EB/RoadWarrior suggest.

I’m in a t25/t50 PvE Alliance and play PvP to 900.

I think I just get frustrated with folks because nobody really experiments or challenges the conventional wisdom on roster building, and those who do inevitably get met with "oh sure, it worked for you, but it could never work for anybody else."

The conventional wisdom on roster building (save all your legendary tokens and CP, use them to champion the Latest guys to 450 when tokens rotate, hoard whatever is left over and use it to get a set to 550) is several years, several mechanics updates, and several metagames old. I'm honestly not even sure if it's optimal anymore, but everybody seems to do it anyway.

A lot of players actually hate this strategy, and complain about how boring it is, but feel like they can't deviate from it or they'll "fall behind."

You should play the game how YOU want. If someone says your preferred strategy isn't optimal, or you're worried you'll fall behind, who cares? I've been purposely doing the least optimal thing for 10 years, and I only stopped being competitive because I got tired of it. I never "fell behind," even before boosted 5* and before all these other changes.

ThaRoadWarrior

That’s a massively impressive LT intake.

Zarqa

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
That’s a massively impressive LT intake.

I’m not sure it’s that, but it could be. I also think it’s the extra 5 covers we get from Alliance events, and the shard bonuses.

Since January 29, I have used 451 LLs and 2175 CP to stay on the LL train. That is 538 pulls across 8 new 5 releases, so an average of 67 per release or 202 per three releases. I just think the days of hoarding to 300 pulls are over.

The one caveat (other than me spending money) is that I max champed a lot of 3 stars in this period and I’ve seen my LT income go down a bit since. But I have no problem (yet) to stay on the train.

Edit: Sorry for the topic hijack. maybe we should continue this conversation in the Grand Experiment Thread…

Ultrace

@entrailbucket said:
You should play the game how YOU want. If someone says your preferred strategy isn't optimal, or you're worried you'll fall behind, who cares?

Yeah, this has been my philosophy for the past five years or so. It's why I softcap all my heroes around 300, because the PvP game which waits beyond just isn't something I want. Alas, with up-tiered 5* characters starting at 450, I'll either have to give up the idea of taking any of my heroes tat far, or or be pushed beyond. We'll wait and see how I feel when I get 1* Spidey to 4*...

max5esq

I accidentally champed a 5 star around a month ago after years of soft capping so I just went ahead and champed like 40 of my 5 stars (I had all the meta fully covered at around 330), has made pve much faster, and PVP alot more annoying. Since more time and rewards go into pve I think it's better.

Daredevil217

@entrailbucket said:
You should play the game how YOU want. If someone says your preferred strategy isn't optimal, or you're worried you'll fall behind, who cares?

It seems you do since you get “frustrated” with players who play the game differently than you do. Though I don’t even know who you’re defending against exactly. Are any of these players hating on your strategy and moving goalposts actually here? Or are they like all the “top players” you know who agree with what you assert but also aren’t here? I just don’t like the “invisible army” schtick. Another famous departed posted did it All. The. Time. And it’s sort of pointless (because no one can argue with phantoms) and it often takes threads off-topic.

@entrailbucket said:
The next time somebody tries going into classics and it works for them, there'll be some reason why it only worked for them and couldn't possibly work for any other kind of player.

In this case you’ve made up two fictional players just to have an argument. Fictional player A who in some unknown future will decide to go all in on classics and fictional player B who is attacking them and trying to prove you wrong.

This isn’t that difficult. Classics are a better return on investment with regards to pure resources. Latests are better if you want to target dilution and have more concentrated pulls. This is not rocket science and the “optimal” strategy depend on your goals. For me I used classics for a long long time because I was in 4* land and rostering everyone was important for essentials. I then switched to Latests to keep up with new releases. Now I just am hoarding for special stores I like. Three different strategies. All perfectly fine for whatever my goals are/were at the time.

Daredevil217

@max5esq said:
I accidentally champed a 5 star around a month ago after years of soft capping so I just went ahead and champed like 40 of my 5 stars (I had all the meta fully covered at around 330), has made pve much faster, and PVP alot more annoying. Since more time and rewards go into pve I think it's better.

Can I ask why it’s more annoying? I actually liked pvp better when I leapt. But that was in the Thor/Okoye meta. Is it because of DJ Chassy Chas?

BlackBoltRocks

PVP is going to be very annoying now that anyone can be a 5. Winfinites that were previously only viable in lower tiers (2* Hawkeye/Magneto/Storm) or had a weak link (like 4* Polaris together with Bill and Jane/Kamala) will now be on a level playing field. All the Countdown spammers like 4* Captain Marvel, Coulson, Starlord, 5* Hawkeye, Sentry, maybe even WorthyCap, will see plenty of use. Characters with buffed match damage like America, M'Baku, Rhino, 4* Juggs. Your AP generators like 3* Wanda, 4* Vulture. We also finally have a web tile meta with Gwenom, Chasm, Miguel, Silk, Iron Spider, 4* Miles. Not sure how viable most 3* will be, but the recent ones like Omega Red, Arcade, High Evo, Magik will be forces to be reckoned with. Some of the older ones like Captain Marvel, Cyclops, Doom, Wanda, and of course IM40 will be great batteries. The 1* - 3* versions of Storm will be great with cascades. Might be enough to make one go PVE-only...

bbigler

@Daredevil217 said:

@bbigler said:
Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start from. Because of this, a Hybrid approach is best for 3-stars. Each tier is different, so here's the best method for each tier:

4-Stars: 370+370
3-Stars: 266+266 => 370+303
2-Stars: 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271
1-Stars: 50+50 => 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271

=======================================================
Using 957 x 3-star covers:

Max+Min Approach => Go up to 550
447,500 Iso-8
25,300 Hero Points
949 Command Points
10 Heroic Token
8 Mighty Token
4 Classic Legends
48 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 86

Max+Max Approach => Go up to 501
544,000 Iso-8
13,600 Hero Points
973 Command Points
20 Heroic Token
16 Mighty Token
8 Classic Legends
53 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 92

Max+Max => Max+Min => Go up to 534
528,500 Iso-8
16,150 Hero Points
963 Command Points
20 Heroic Token
16 Mighty Token
8 Classic Legends
55 Latest Legends
CP + LT = 94

Wait. 266+266 is now optimal again?

It’s optimal for 3-stars but not 1 & 2 stars because of the 2:1 cover ratio.

Max + Max is not optimal for 2-stars because the 2-Star champ rewards are so inferior to the upper tiers.

bbigler

@BlackBoltRocks
PVP variety is good not bad. Sure, teams will be harder because there’s more options, but there’s a counter to every team. No one is unbeatable. Plus, they may enable supports in PVP because the teams get harder. But everyone should calm down about this, it won’t change overnight.