7,5 years daily play on a mobile match 3 toilet game. Just let that sink in 🤣
@Bowgentle said: @entrailbucket said: @Phumade said: So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.@658_2 said: . > @ArchusMonk said: @658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters? I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*. Thank you. That’s very interesting and quite exploitable. You can fund 15 roster slots just by taking one 4 through 5* rewards, plus all the other rewards. I’m really starting to believe Entrailbucket is right and pulling Classics is a much better strategy than pulling LLs. If you’re not playing ultra competitive and the next optimal combo isn’t very relevant to your experience, it definitely is a superior strategy. The obvious limiting factor being, how long will the game be around? Roster slots for ascension and the abundance of vaults with 5s, particularly blank shards, have drastically increased the value of hp. Getting 4s into 5* rewards is huge. You get an extra 37 4s (and 13 5s) per every 5000cp spent on Classics vs LLs. keep in mind, EB and the other Eldar rosters still get a massive number of LLs. The idea of focusing on "classics" is under the assumption that they can already get the 13 covers from naturally occurring LL, not using CP to purchase LL. Focusing on Classics vs LL really depends on where your at in the MPQ lifecycle. Again, @ThaRoadWarrior has proved that you don't need to be a 10-year vet, with 10 years of competitive history, to make it work. Day 2787.
@Bowgentle said:
@entrailbucket said: @Phumade said: So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.@658_2 said: . > @ArchusMonk said: @658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters? I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*. Thank you. That’s very interesting and quite exploitable. You can fund 15 roster slots just by taking one 4 through 5* rewards, plus all the other rewards. I’m really starting to believe Entrailbucket is right and pulling Classics is a much better strategy than pulling LLs. If you’re not playing ultra competitive and the next optimal combo isn’t very relevant to your experience, it definitely is a superior strategy. The obvious limiting factor being, how long will the game be around? Roster slots for ascension and the abundance of vaults with 5s, particularly blank shards, have drastically increased the value of hp. Getting 4s into 5* rewards is huge. You get an extra 37 4s (and 13 5s) per every 5000cp spent on Classics vs LLs. keep in mind, EB and the other Eldar rosters still get a massive number of LLs. The idea of focusing on "classics" is under the assumption that they can already get the 13 covers from naturally occurring LL, not using CP to purchase LL. Focusing on Classics vs LL really depends on where your at in the MPQ lifecycle. Again, @ThaRoadWarrior has proved that you don't need to be a 10-year vet, with 10 years of competitive history, to make it work.
@entrailbucket said:
@Phumade said: So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.@658_2 said: . > @ArchusMonk said: @658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters? I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*. Thank you. That’s very interesting and quite exploitable. You can fund 15 roster slots just by taking one 4 through 5* rewards, plus all the other rewards. I’m really starting to believe Entrailbucket is right and pulling Classics is a much better strategy than pulling LLs. If you’re not playing ultra competitive and the next optimal combo isn’t very relevant to your experience, it definitely is a superior strategy. The obvious limiting factor being, how long will the game be around? Roster slots for ascension and the abundance of vaults with 5s, particularly blank shards, have drastically increased the value of hp. Getting 4s into 5* rewards is huge. You get an extra 37 4s (and 13 5s) per every 5000cp spent on Classics vs LLs. keep in mind, EB and the other Eldar rosters still get a massive number of LLs. The idea of focusing on "classics" is under the assumption that they can already get the 13 covers from naturally occurring LL, not using CP to purchase LL. Focusing on Classics vs LL really depends on where your at in the MPQ lifecycle.
@Phumade said:
So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.@658_2 said: . > @ArchusMonk said: @658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters? I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*. Thank you. That’s very interesting and quite exploitable. You can fund 15 roster slots just by taking one 4 through 5* rewards, plus all the other rewards. I’m really starting to believe Entrailbucket is right and pulling Classics is a much better strategy than pulling LLs. If you’re not playing ultra competitive and the next optimal combo isn’t very relevant to your experience, it definitely is a superior strategy. The obvious limiting factor being, how long will the game be around? Roster slots for ascension and the abundance of vaults with 5s, particularly blank shards, have drastically increased the value of hp. Getting 4s into 5* rewards is huge. You get an extra 37 4s (and 13 5s) per every 5000cp spent on Classics vs LLs.
So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.@658_2 said: . > @ArchusMonk said:
@658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters? I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*.
@658_2 said: I’m getting lost in the thread. Have the devs addressed how favorites work for ascended characters?
I’m pretty sure IceX said that the favorite counts at the native level of the character so that 1* and 2* cannot be favorited even after Ascension to 3+ while 3 star IM40 for example will always be considered your 3 favorite even if ascended to 4*.
Thank you. That’s very interesting and quite exploitable. You can fund 15 roster slots just by taking one 4 through 5* rewards, plus all the other rewards.
I’m really starting to believe Entrailbucket is right and pulling Classics is a much better strategy than pulling LLs. If you’re not playing ultra competitive and the next optimal combo isn’t very relevant to your experience, it definitely is a superior strategy. The obvious limiting factor being, how long will the game be around? Roster slots for ascension and the abundance of vaults with 5s, particularly blank shards, have drastically increased the value of hp. Getting 4s into 5* rewards is huge. You get an extra 37 4s (and 13 5s) per every 5000cp spent on Classics vs LLs.
keep in mind, EB and the other Eldar rosters still get a massive number of LLs. The idea of focusing on "classics" is under the assumption that they can already get the 13 covers from naturally occurring LL, not using CP to purchase LL. Focusing on Classics vs LL really depends on where your at in the MPQ lifecycle.
Again, @ThaRoadWarrior has proved that you don't need to be a 10-year vet, with 10 years of competitive history, to make it work.
Day 2787.
Folks at day 3000, who'd been in top alliances for 7 years, were telling me that it could never work for them. How many days do you have?
Heck, I bet you're longer-tenured, with more "competitive days," than roadwarrior.
Sure it would work for you and me and everyone who has been competitive for 10 years (7 with a 3 year break for me). But you're still asking people for say... At least 2 years competitive daily play. The people who stick around mobile games for so long are few and far between.
@Bowgentle said: Sure it would work for you and me and everyone who has been competitive for 10 years (7 with a 3 year break for me). But you're still asking people for say... At least 2 years competitive daily play. The people who stick around mobile games for so long are few and far between.
I mean, I wasn't trying to sell the strategy to noncompetitive, non-daily, completely casual players, though?
The argument has always been whether it'd work for folks who hoard and go all in on Latest, even though they hate it/find it boring, because someone told them that was the only way to be competitive.
Honestly, if you're hyper casual, it probably is the best place to spend your resources since you won't be earning enough to keep up or get anything useful out of LL either. Might as well put that 20cp to work more often.
It's pretty funny how the goalposts continually move on this particular topic. First it would never work for anyone, then I proved it worked for me, but that was just because there was nobody else like me. Then it worked for roadwarrior, but that's only because of reasons, and it'd never work for anyone else.
The next time somebody tries going into classics and it works for them, there'll be some reason why it only worked for them and couldn't possibly work for any other kind of player.
Im thinking R287 comes out on Thursday when 2022 PVP ends.
I vaguely remember @ThaRoadWarrior started opening consistently CLs more or less 2 years ago isn't it?
if only there were some way to know for sure...
I went back and checked the tapes, I've been all-in on CL since Januray 2023, but i'd been dabbling with it whenever I got caught up on LL and got bored waiting for the rotation for at least the previous year.https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/81450/grand-experiment-2-treading-water-in-the-scl-10-post-shardpocalypse/p42
@Bowgentle said: 7,5 years daily play on a mobile match 3 toilet game. Just let that sink in 🤣
That explains the fart sounds during our line calls…
@ThaRoadWarrior said: if only there were some way to know for sure... I went back and checked the tapes, I've been all-in on CL since Januray 2023, but i'd been dabbling with it whenever I got caught up on LL and got bored waiting for the rotation for at least the previous year.https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/81450/grand-experiment-2-treading-water-in-the-scl-10-post-shardpocalypse/p42
@ThaRoadWarrior said: if only there were some way to know for sure...
Exactly 1 year then. Well, my point is that the progress you made is about 1 year pulling CL and not 7.
Adding to this CL versus LL conversation : I just noticed that odds for a 5 stars in CL is now 1:6, when it’s 1:7 in LL. Has it always been this way? Because it does add to the "CL instead of LL" column. Just calculated that for 10k CP, that’s a 50% increase on the quantity of 5 stars you get, in addition to all that’s been said before. There’s also the "increased bonus shards" angle to consider. Thing is, I’m seriously starting to consider unhoarding on CLs. But that might just be because I’m tired of waiting on damn update and Anniversary store. 😂
I was pulling all resources out of LL from dec 2018 when Kingpin came out until sometime in 2022 when I started dabbling in Classic. At that time I had no fully covered 5*, but I had everyone on roster. I had about half of the then-available 4* characters champed.
And no, the 1:6 odds went live with the Featured 3 very recently.
@BlixTheFrog said: Adding to this CL versus LL conversation : I just noticed that odds for a 5 stars in CL is now 1:6, when it’s 1:7 in LL. Has it always been this way? Because it does add to the "CL instead of LL" column. Just calculated that for 10k CP, that’s a 50% increase on the quantity of 5 stars you get, in addition to all that’s been said before. There’s also the "increased bonus shards" angle to consider. Thing is, I’m seriously starting to consider unhoarding on CLs. But that might just be because I’m tired of waiting on damn update and Anniversary store. 😂
They changed it, I think it was 2 months ago.
"R287 Slight Patch Delay"https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/89140/r287-slight-patch-delay
MPQBlaine ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 59 Match Maker 26 September 2023 We are currently waiting on approvals from all available first parties to release. Due to the extensive amount of material for them to comb through, approval is taking a little bit longer than usual.
As soon as it is ready we will push live. We appreciate your patience in the matter, as we know we all want to dive straight into Champions 2.0!
@bbigler said: Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start from. Because of this, a Hybrid approach is best for 3-stars. Each tier is different, so here's the best method for each tier: 4-Stars: 370+370 3-Stars: 266+266 => 370+303 2-Stars: 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271 1-Stars: 50+50 => 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271 ======================================================= Using 957 x 3-star covers: Max+Min Approach => Go up to 550 447,500 Iso-8 25,300 Hero Points 949 Command Points 10 Heroic Token 8 Mighty Token 4 Classic Legends 48 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 86 Max+Max Approach => Go up to 501 544,000 Iso-8 13,600 Hero Points 973 Command Points 20 Heroic Token 16 Mighty Token 8 Classic Legends 53 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 92 Max+Max => Max+Min => Go up to 534 528,500 Iso-8 16,150 Hero Points 963 Command Points 20 Heroic Token 16 Mighty Token 8 Classic Legends 55 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 94
@bbigler said: Eureka! I've got it! The best way to maximize champ rewards with ascending: the Max+Max ascending "tax" only applies in the next tier, NOT the tier you start from. Because of this, a Hybrid approach is best for 3-stars. Each tier is different, so here's the best method for each tier:
4-Stars: 370+370 3-Stars: 266+266 => 370+303 2-Stars: 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271 1-Stars: 50+50 => 144+94 => 266+167 => 370+271
======================================================= Using 957 x 3-star covers:
Max+Min Approach => Go up to 550 447,500 Iso-8 25,300 Hero Points 949 Command Points 10 Heroic Token 8 Mighty Token 4 Classic Legends 48 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 86
Max+Max Approach => Go up to 501 544,000 Iso-8 13,600 Hero Points 973 Command Points 20 Heroic Token 16 Mighty Token 8 Classic Legends 53 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 92
Max+Max => Max+Min => Go up to 534 528,500 Iso-8 16,150 Hero Points 963 Command Points 20 Heroic Token 16 Mighty Token 8 Classic Legends 55 Latest LegendsCP + LT = 94
Wait. 266+266 is now optimal again?
On CP vs LL: I joined the LL train on 1/18/23, and since then have grown my CP from 2000 to over 11k if I take into account what I spent on release stores. (It’s actually 7k now due to release store spending).
I’m almost two years in, have almost everyone rostered, but much less 4s champed than RoadWarrior suggested. I definitely pay to play more than average, but I don’t think that’s what makes it happen.
In other words: you can keep current using LL only even sooner than EB/RoadWarrior suggest.
Edit: I’m in a t25/t50 PvE Alliance and play PvP to 900. I plan to start using CP on Classics after anniversary, and will see how that goes.
@Zarqa said: On CL vs LL: I joined the LL train on 1/18, and since then have grown my CP from 2000 to over 11k if I take out what I spent on release stores. (It’s actually 7k now due to release store spending). I’m almost two years in, have almost everyone rostered, but much less 4s champed than RoadWarrior suggested. I definitely pay to play more than average, but I don’t think that’s what makes it happen. In other words: you can keep current using LL only even sooner than EB/RoadWarrior suggest. I’m in a t25/t50 PvE Alliance and play PvP to 900.
@Zarqa said: On CL vs LL: I joined the LL train on 1/18, and since then have grown my CP from 2000 to over 11k if I take out what I spent on release stores. (It’s actually 7k now due to release store spending).
I’m in a t25/t50 PvE Alliance and play PvP to 900.
I think I just get frustrated with folks because nobody really experiments or challenges the conventional wisdom on roster building, and those who do inevitably get met with "oh sure, it worked for you, but it could never work for anybody else."
The conventional wisdom on roster building (save all your legendary tokens and CP, use them to champion the Latest guys to 450 when tokens rotate, hoard whatever is left over and use it to get a set to 550) is several years, several mechanics updates, and several metagames old. I'm honestly not even sure if it's optimal anymore, but everybody seems to do it anyway.
A lot of players actually hate this strategy, and complain about how boring it is, but feel like they can't deviate from it or they'll "fall behind."
You should play the game how YOU want. If someone says your preferred strategy isn't optimal, or you're worried you'll fall behind, who cares? I've been purposely doing the least optimal thing for 10 years, and I only stopped being competitive because I got tired of it. I never "fell behind," even before boosted 5* and before all these other changes.
That’s a massively impressive LT intake.
@ThaRoadWarrior said: That’s a massively impressive LT intake.
I’m not sure it’s that, but it could be. I also think it’s the extra 5 covers we get from Alliance events, and the shard bonuses.
Since January 29, I have used 451 LLs and 2175 CP to stay on the LL train. That is 538 pulls across 8 new 5 releases, so an average of 67 per release or 202 per three releases. I just think the days of hoarding to 300 pulls are over.
The one caveat (other than me spending money) is that I max champed a lot of 3 stars in this period and I’ve seen my LT income go down a bit since. But I have no problem (yet) to stay on the train.
Edit: Sorry for the topic hijack. maybe we should continue this conversation in the Grand Experiment Thread…