New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

1…2021232526…37

Comments

  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards

    Was about to post the same thing.

    Unless you want to go all-in on the initial set to have those few 1*s setup right away and don't mind the risk of tossing the rest.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    If you've been saving them that long, why open them now at all? It seems quite risky to assume that now will be the most optimal time EVER to cash them in.

    Like, what if they introduce some even better thing next year? You'd be completely suboptimal!

    The Nonnel gambit.

  • ArchusMonk
    ArchusMonk Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2023

    @trenchdigger said:
    @Daredevil217
    Completely understand why this is confusing people. It is difficult to explain, and also theoretical, as we don't actually know how credits will work.
    Also people are doing correct maths but misunderstanding what that maths means.

    In summary,
    To take a 1* all the way up to 550 takes 1,508 1* covers if at each ascension you always use a max champed and a newly champed to ascend.

    If you always use 2 maxed champs each time you ascend then it might still take 1,508 covers or it might take 1,908 covers. This is the "tax".

    So what causes the extra 400 covers:
    Going from 1* to 1ascend2 is tax free
    Going from 1ascend2 to 1ascend3 is tax free
    Going from 1ascend3 to 1ascend4 might incur 200 "tax" (see note 1 below)
    Going from 1ascend4 to 1ascend5 might incur 200 "tax" (see note 2 below)

    How does the tax arise:

    Note 1: taking a 1* through 100 3* levels will cost 200 covers. If you only get credit at the rate of 1 cover per levels rather than 2 covers per level then the "tax" is 100 covers for each of the 2 out of 4 champs that you choose to max champ rather than just newly champ. Total tax = 200 covers

    Note 2: taking a 1* through 100 4* levels will cost 300 covers. If you only get credit at the rate of 1 cover per levels rather than 3 covers per level then the "tax" is 200 covers for the 1 champ that you choose to max champ rather than just newly champ. Total tax = 200 covers

    This may all be moot, as you may actually get credit for all of the covers used to max champ, even when the rate of covers to levels is increased.

    I hope this makes sense. I'm sure I would make a terrible teacher!

    We both agree that there is a 400 cover tax for max champing vs. min/maxing. What we don’t agree on is where to account for it. You want to count it later while I count it when you actually pay it. You say it comes later, but both min/max and dual max pay for levels at the same rate at that stage, so wouldn’t both legs be paying a tax there?

    We can agree the first ascent costs nothing, so I’ll start at 1Ascend2. At this stage both sides have 8 1Ascend2 level 94. Min/Max spends 50 covers x 4 or 200 covers to get 4 of them to 144. Dual Max spends 50 covers x 8 or 400 covers to get 8 of them to 144. I consider that 200 cover difference the “2 star tax” because you NEVER get those covers back. I know you believe that you got the “value” out of those extra covers with higher levels at the next stage so you don’t consider it the tax. However, I’m a simple man. At this stage, dual Max have spent 200 more covers than Min/Max, and they don’t get that back at the next level. In fact, Dual max are taxed AGAIN at the next level as I’m about to show.

    At 1Ascend3 level Min/Max has 4 1Ascend3 level 166 while Dual Max has 4 1Ascend3 level 191. Min/Max spends 400 covers to raise 2 of those 100 levels each (100x2x2). Dual max spend 600 covers to raise all 4 75 levels each (75x4x2). Again Dual Max have spent 200 more covers at this stage than Min/Max, and they don’t get that back at the next level. I consider this the “3 star tax”.

    At 1Ascend4 level Min/Max has 2 1Ascend4 level 270 while Dual Max has 2 1Ascend4 level 303 1/3. Min/Max spends 300 covers to raise one of those 100 levels (100 x 3). Dual Max spends 400 covers to raise both 66 2/3 levels (66 2/3 x 3 x 2). Dual Max spent 100 more covers again, but I do not consider this a tax, because at the next level they will spend less, so there is an actual offset for this.

    At 1Ascend5 level Min/Max will have 1Ascend5 level 450 and Dual Max will have 1Ascend5 level 475. It will cost Min/Max 400 covers to max and Dual max 300 covers to max.

    This is why I consider 4 star to be an untaxed level. You spend the same amount whether you’re on the Min/Max path or the Dual Max path.

    I do not think I am “misunderstanding what the math means”. I understand exactly what it means, and I’ve shown exactly why I believe 2 star and 3 star levels carry a cover tax while 4 star does not. It’s because those are the levels where Dual Max are actually spending covers that Min/Max is not. They never get those covers back! Again, I don’t expect to change your mind. I’m just explaining my side since we’re not really disagreeing about the existence of the tax itself - just where it’s being applied.

    @Kolence I just looked at your spreadsheet, and I’m not sure why there is variance in our numbers. Am I doing an apples to oranges comparison to what your spreadsheet is showing at different stages or is there a math error somewhere in my analysis?

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ZeiramMR said:
    Was about to post the same thing.

    Unless you want to go all-in on the initial set to have those few 1*s setup right away and don't mind the risk of tossing the rest.

    Yep which means I keep on hoarding. Quite why they didn't just go all 1/2 stars this drop, 3 stars the next drop and then four stars. It's a non feature until you are not wasting tokens. I can open LT's because I have no dual maxed 4* anyway.

  • Riguez
    Riguez Posts: 22 Just Dropped In

    I don't think I've ever waited for an app to update as much as I'm doing right now... almost 2PM where I live and no sign of the update lol

    I know how that works though, I'm just venting my anxiety :D

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 145 Tile Toppler

    @ArchusMonk
    All I can say is go max max for the first 2 ascents and min max for the second 2 ascents and calculate the covers.
    Then go min max for the first 2 ascents and max max for the second 2 ascents and again calculate the covers.
    You will see that the 400 difference only applies on the final 2 ascents.

    But again, I emphasise that this whole discussion is based on 2 different calculations of covers because someone assumed that the credit given for max max would be based on levels not covers. At this time, we have no idea if this was a correct assumption or not.

  • Altair22
    Altair22 Posts: 120 Tile Toppler

    1246 pm here in Vancouver Canada waiting for it.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    If you've been saving them that long, why open them now at all? It seems quite risky to assume that now will be the most optimal time EVER to cash them in.

    Like, what if they introduce some even better thing next year? You'd be completely suboptimal!

    I'll open them when magik 3* would be available.
    Next year they won't work anymore on revolutionise the game's mechanics because they'd be sick tired after batching all characters, rebalancing and nerfing some ones, and basically they will want to live the life and stay benchend gin-tonic in hand until next time some high boss having a dangerous idea.

    So my self S.O.S to the future (sounds better than laziness) will be efficiently managed through my current wisdom-empowered present form.

  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @Kolence I just looked at your spreadsheet, and I’m not sure why there is variance in our numbers. Am I doing an apples to oranges comparison to what your spreadsheet is showing at different stages or is there a math error somewhere in my analysis?

    Ooops, sorry about that. A mistake survived from an earlier version. The correct count is 400 more at 5-star tier, for 1-star and 2-star covers.
    The 2nd version of merging into 5-star tier was taking the number of covers so far of the 1st version of 4-star max champ. The lighter shade one. Instead it should count the darker shade one, where it always merges max champ copies. I didn't have the max & max binding at first, so when I added it, I must have copied some fields and didn't notice the difference. Then it got copied to 2-star as well.
    In practice though, it can be mixed and matched, or as @bbigler showed, postponed a few levels if you care for a particular champ reward.

  • max5esq
    max5esq Posts: 58 Match Maker

    Any word on when this update is happening?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    @max5esq said:
    Any word on when this update is happening?

    Nobody knows. With updates that get handled by the app stores, the app stores have control of the timing. We might get Apple today and Google tomorrow, or both of them later today.

  • w_ifbbpro
    w_ifbbpro Posts: 4 Just Dropped In

    @Scofie said:

    @w_ifbbpro said:
    When will it be here in App Store?

    Ha! Hope you've set aside 20 hours a day for a month to open those, 50 at a time....

    I’m going to take a whole week off from work to pull. 😄

  • w_ifbbpro
    w_ifbbpro Posts: 4 Just Dropped In

    @meadowsweet said:

    @w_ifbbpro said:
    When will it be here in App Store?

    Just to be clear, only 3 of 8 of the 1★ characters and 5 of 14 of the 2★ characters will be eligible to Bind & Ascend - they're doing them in batches. So if you're sitting on 15,383 Standard Tokens, you may want to wait until they are 100% unlocked, and not risk "wasting" most of your pulls on the vine? (No idea how long that may be.)

    Obviously I won’t go all in, just want to test some 1 stars and 2 stars

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,640 Chairperson of the Boards

    @w_ifbbpro said:

    @meadowsweet said:

    @w_ifbbpro said:
    When will it be here in App Store?

    Just to be clear, only 3 of 8 of the 1★ characters and 5 of 14 of the 2★ characters will be eligible to Bind & Ascend - they're doing them in batches. So if you're sitting on 15,383 Standard Tokens, you may want to wait until they are 100% unlocked, and not risk "wasting" most of your pulls on the vine? (No idea how long that may be.)

    Obviously I won’t go all in, just want to test some 1 stars and 2 stars

    You can always stop pulling after you fully roster two copies of 1 or two of the 1★ characters that are in the first batch. Double roster anyone else -- you may have that double rostered character for some time (we have no idea when the second batch will be,) but you'll use it eventually.

  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards

    Looks like update is taking longer than expected to drop

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 521 Critical Contributor

    Come on D3

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Pantera236 said:

    Come on D3

    Don't jump in a time machine!

  • Pantera236
    Pantera236 Posts: 521 Critical Contributor

    @Punisher5784 said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    Come on D3

    Don't jump in a time machine!

    I'll just freeze myself, it's like suspender animation 😏

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    @Pantera236 said:

    @Punisher5784 said:

    @Pantera236 said:

    Come on D3

    Don't jump in a time machine!

    I'll just freeze myself, it's like suspender animation 😏

    3* / 5* Time Child (Big Boned) confirmed?

Categories