New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

ThaRoadWarrior

@LavaManLee said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@LavaManLee said:
Apologies but even after 19 pages, I still have some basic questions. Here is something I still don't get and hoping it is clear:

• I have two 4* Polaris at 370
• If I "ascend" them into a 5Polaris4, can I use that character in the required 4* for the current PVE? Or do I need to have a "pure" 4*Polaris to use?

Thanks in adanvce!

They've said there are currently no nodes in the game programmed to require Polaris (Lorna Dane) to be 4* Polaris (lorna dane), but that the technology to require that in future could be rolled out. so you will be able to use the character with that name anywhere they are required, even required character PVP.

Thanks. Polaris was just my example.

I guess the overall question is whether those required nodes in PVE require a "pure" 4* (or 3*) or if an Ascended one works in those nodes?

The only place where a star tier is specified as a requirement is Deadpool's Daily Quest, or that one PVP that has a 4/3/2 requirement, but none of those nodes require a specific character and therefore should allow for jumped up lower versions who are now at that star level to be used, but who will not allow jumped up versions to play down. I'm fairly confident anyway. But Ice did explicitly try a time or two in this thread to say that currently no named character nodes specify a tier level but they may ultimately choose to roll that out later. So my guess is that eventually we'll see some flavor of heroics that will require multi versions (and also that everyone will hate it but the one or two people who have all versions on roster).

ThaRoadWarrior

This is right in the initial info dump:

"Do I need a copy of each rarity of a character?
Need is a strong word, but in the future, it’s quite possible that we’ll have events do things like “Use ANY 4* Black Widow” instead of just Black Widow (Infinity War). Further down the road? Sure, maybe there’ll be an event where you’ll need any Ascended 5-Star or even “Use 5-Star Iron Man (Model 35)”, but I wouldn’t expect that any time soon. It’s unfair to expect players in the near term to change up their overall roster THAT much to where we could assume players would have specific Ascended characters available.

What about Required Nodes? Can I use Ascended characters in place of the base ones?
Depends on the node. If the node is “3-Stars Required”, then no, you can’t use a 4-Star Ascended Black Widow (Grey Suit). But you could use a 3-Star Ascended Iron Man (Model 35). If the node is set to “Black Widow (Grey Suit)”, then you could use any rarity version of that character. As above, in the near term, we’re not planning on specifying more in-depth on nodes, so this means that higher end players that Ascend their characters can get a leg up on some of those nodes in PVE that normally require lower tier characters."

DAZ0273

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@LavaManLee said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@LavaManLee said:
Apologies but even after 19 pages, I still have some basic questions. Here is something I still don't get and hoping it is clear:

• I have two 4* Polaris at 370
• If I "ascend" them into a 5Polaris4, can I use that character in the required 4* for the current PVE? Or do I need to have a "pure" 4*Polaris to use?

Thanks in adanvce!

They've said there are currently no nodes in the game programmed to require Polaris (Lorna Dane) to be 4* Polaris (lorna dane), but that the technology to require that in future could be rolled out. so you will be able to use the character with that name anywhere they are required, even required character PVP.

Thanks. Polaris was just my example.

I guess the overall question is whether those required nodes in PVE require a "pure" 4* (or 3*) or if an Ascended one works in those nodes?

The only place where a star tier is specified as a requirement is Deadpool's Daily Quest, or that one PVP that has a 4/3/2 requirement, but none of those nodes require a specific character and therefore should allow for jumped up lower versions who are now at that star level to be used, but who will not allow jumped up versions to play down. I'm fairly confident anyway. But Ice did explicitly try a time or two in this thread to say that currently no named character nodes specify a tier level but they may ultimately choose to roll that out later. So my guess is that eventually we'll see some flavor of heroics that will require multi versions (and also that everyone will hate it but the one or two people who have all versions on roster).

Well even DDQ is a bit suss after the times we have been able to use 5* RiRi on a 4* Riri mode.

Scofie

@DAZ0273 said:
This could be completely wrong but from what I understand the requirement for that is "Polaris" not 4* Polaris, so presumably the answer is yes you can. Where you could not use a character from a higher tier would be where the requirement was say "3* characters".

That is also my understanding. So in the 1/2/3/4* nodes in DDQ you can't used characters that have ascended beyond the limit for the node.

But for required character nodes (named), ascended characters can be used regardless of how far they have ascended.

ZeiramMR

My roster looks like this going into the change:
1-star: max level, no dupes
2-star: no dupes, sold at max level after getting as many loose covers for the replacement as possible
3-star: one max level, one dupe building up champion levels. Psylocke is my only character on the initial list that is anywhere near 266 on the dupe.
4-star: Most are at some version of champion levels, a dozen are max champed with a dupe started, but only Medusa and Devil Dino are fully covered/baby champed right now.
5-star: My highest champ is level 476, no dupes.

Given that I'm not in a great place for ascending with max champ dupes, I am just sticking to 1-stars for this week, and will take Psylocke up just to get a feel for the power curve.

MegaBee

I wonder if ascending a character will count as promotion to champion for milestone quests.

ThaRoadWarrior

Just curious if all the mathletes doing the resource costs were factoring in that you don’t have to champ your dupe, just have them leveled up to highest level prior to champing to bind them? So you only have to pay the champ tax if you are going to merge a pair of max champs together.

ArchusMonk

@rainkingucd said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@DAZ0273 said:
It would be interesting to know how many of the player base are actually capable of ascending a 4* today on launch, not getting into the best scenario of double dipping etc - just if you are actually capable of doing it straight away. So who has a max champ + champed dupe of some level? Doesn't matter if you are not planning on doing it - just maybe say if you have the capability in this thread from from launch.

Definitely not me!

I am gonna dabble with 1* Spidey though - I know my limits!

I have no 370s. The dupes I do have:

Cyclops: 289
Deadpool: 281
Ghost Rider: 298
Gorr: 74
Gwenpoole (1 max, no dupe rostered yet),
Invisible Woman: 290
Iron Man: 316
Medusa: 325
Moon Knight: 293
Mr. Fantastic: 286
Nico Minoru: 309
Riri Williams: 286
Rogue: 285
The Thing: 172
Thor: 294
Valkyrie: 343
War Machine 284

Every old 3* will be ascended to 4* day one because I’ve kept 3 max champs of each for health packs. This should free up a bunch of slots.

Every 2* will also be ascended to 3* day 1 because I’ve kept two max champs of them as well.

1* I only have one max level of each. I do have 211 standards. Could see what that nets me.

It makes sense to wait until I’ve ascended the 2/3. That way I don’t have to buy more slots for the dupe 1s.

My 4* are in similar shape as yours I think. I have a fair number of dupes, but no 370 dupes. Closest are Medusa and Captain Marvel in the 330s. I think I'll go with them first, as there is little chance on updates to feeders for them, and they can be my tests in the 4* space. Both are great characters and would work well at the higher level so little risk.

For the rest, I currently have a bunch of 1* on the vine, as well as ~6 3* IM covers (and 2 maxed champed IM40). I'll clear my vine by ascending the 1* and 3* IM straight away, then start to work on my 2* next.

Since you have 6 3* IM covers already, you might want to give some thought to making a max level 3* IM to ascend with one of your max champs. This is because the “tax” associated with ascending 2 max champs. If you do 2x max champ + 2x max level vs 4x max champ, you’ll 300 covers over the long haul. On the other hand you’ve already paid the tax on your current second max champ, so you could just bite the bullet and ascend the 2 max champs, apply the 6 covers, and have a level 305 3IM4.

rainkingucd

@ArchusMonk said:

@rainkingucd said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@DAZ0273 said:
It would be interesting to know how many of the player base are actually capable of ascending a 4* today on launch, not getting into the best scenario of double dipping etc - just if you are actually capable of doing it straight away. So who has a max champ + champed dupe of some level? Doesn't matter if you are not planning on doing it - just maybe say if you have the capability in this thread from from launch.

Definitely not me!

I am gonna dabble with 1* Spidey though - I know my limits!

I have no 370s. The dupes I do have:

Cyclops: 289
Deadpool: 281
Ghost Rider: 298
Gorr: 74
Gwenpoole (1 max, no dupe rostered yet),
Invisible Woman: 290
Iron Man: 316
Medusa: 325
Moon Knight: 293
Mr. Fantastic: 286
Nico Minoru: 309
Riri Williams: 286
Rogue: 285
The Thing: 172
Thor: 294
Valkyrie: 343
War Machine 284

Every old 3* will be ascended to 4* day one because I’ve kept 3 max champs of each for health packs. This should free up a bunch of slots.

Every 2* will also be ascended to 3* day 1 because I’ve kept two max champs of them as well.

1* I only have one max level of each. I do have 211 standards. Could see what that nets me.

It makes sense to wait until I’ve ascended the 2/3. That way I don’t have to buy more slots for the dupe 1s.

My 4* are in similar shape as yours I think. I have a fair number of dupes, but no 370 dupes. Closest are Medusa and Captain Marvel in the 330s. I think I'll go with them first, as there is little chance on updates to feeders for them, and they can be my tests in the 4* space. Both are great characters and would work well at the higher level so little risk.

For the rest, I currently have a bunch of 1* on the vine, as well as ~6 3* IM covers (and 2 maxed champed IM40). I'll clear my vine by ascending the 1* and 3* IM straight away, then start to work on my 2* next.

Since you have 6 3* IM covers already, you might want to give some thought to making a max level 3* IM to ascend with one of your max champs. This is because the “tax” associated with ascending 2 max champs. If you do 2x max champ + 2x max level vs 4x max champ, you’ll 300 covers over the long haul. On the other hand you’ve already paid the tax on your current second max champ, so you could just bite the bullet and ascend the 2 max champs, apply the 6 covers, and have a level 305 3IM4.

This is very helpful and very insightful, thank you. I was of the mindset that 2x max champs was better since you got all the champ rewards along the way, but I hadn't really looked into the "tax" as you had outlined before. Now I have to think which is not what I planned on doing!

skittledaddy

@MegaBee said:
I wonder if ascending a character will count as promotion to champion for milestone quests.

Or for XP increase...

liminal_lad

@LavaManLee said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@LavaManLee said:
Apologies but even after 19 pages, I still have some basic questions. Here is something I still don't get and hoping it is clear:

• I have two 4* Polaris at 370
• If I "ascend" them into a 5Polaris4, can I use that character in the required 4* for the current PVE? Or do I need to have a "pure" 4*Polaris to use?

Thanks in adanvce!

They've said there are currently no nodes in the game programmed to require Polaris (Lorna Dane) to be 4* Polaris (lorna dane), but that the technology to require that in future could be rolled out. so you will be able to use the character with that name anywhere they are required, even required character PVP.

Thanks. Polaris was just my example.

I guess the overall question is whether those required nodes in PVE require a "pure" 4* (or 3*) or if an Ascended one works in those nodes?

They will not work in Deadpool nodes as their original star level.

trenchdigger

This isn't correct. The "tax" associated with ascending 2 max champs only applies when it cost more than 1 cover per level to get the character up to a max champ.

For a 3 star, it only costs you 1 cover per level to go from 166 to 266. Therefore if you ascend 2 max champed 3 star at 266 you get back the full 100 covers worth of credit applied to your 3ascended4.

However, for a 2*, it costs 2 covers per level to get that already ascended 2* from 166 to 266. We don't actually know yet what credit you get back when you ascend that 2* up again, but the suggestion is that you only get 100 levels of credit, not 200 covers of credit. This is "tax" that is being described, and it is only a theoretical tax at the moment until we have confirmation of how these subsequent ascension credits are applied.

But just to reiterate, in your case @rankingucd, the first ascension of 2 3* to 4*, there is no "tax" to consider, and therefore using 2 max champed 3* at 266 means no loss of rewards and no penalty.

ArchusMonk

@liminal_lad said:

@LavaManLee said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:

@LavaManLee said:
Apologies but even after 19 pages, I still have some basic questions. Here is something I still don't get and hoping it is clear:

• I have two 4* Polaris at 370
• If I "ascend" them into a 5Polaris4, can I use that character in the required 4* for the current PVE? Or do I need to have a "pure" 4*Polaris to use?

Thanks in adanvce!

They've said there are currently no nodes in the game programmed to require Polaris (Lorna Dane) to be 4* Polaris (lorna dane), but that the technology to require that in future could be rolled out. so you will be able to use the character with that name anywhere they are required, even required character PVP.

Thanks. Polaris was just my example.

I guess the overall question is whether those required nodes in PVE require a "pure" 4* (or 3*) or if an Ascended one works in those nodes?

They will not work in Deadpool nodes as their original star level.

We’ll see how it actually plays in game, but the INTENT of the devs is that a PVE node is either level specific or character specific. That means if you ascend 2* Storm to 2Storm3, you can no longer use her in the DDQ node that requires 2* characters. However, you would be able to use her in the 4-3-2 node if she is the required 2 because that node doesn’t specify a level just a specific Storm. Again, implemented code does not always follow what the devs intend, but that was IceX’s answer when I asked pretty much this specific question.

trenchdigger

To try to be as clear as possible, the only ascensions where this "tax" may apply are:
1* to 4* and 5* level
2* to 4* and 5* level
3* to 5* level

Any other ascensions will be fine as no multiple covers will have been consumed to level up max champs at lower levels.

Bowgentle

@trenchdigger said:
To try to be as clear as possible, the only ascensions where this "tax" may apply are:
1* to 4* and 5* level
2* to 4* and 5* level
3* to 5* level

Any other ascensions will be fine as no multiple covers will have been consumed to level up max champs at lower levels.

Thanks, I was wondering where that "tax" came from all of a sudden.

ArchusMonk

@trenchdigger said:
This isn't correct. The "tax" associated with ascending 2 max champs only applies when it cost more than 1 cover per level to get the character up to a max champ.

For a 3 star, it only costs you 1 cover per level to go from 166 to 266. Therefore if you ascend 2 max champed 3 star at 266 you get back the full 100 covers worth of credit applied to your 3ascended4.

However, for a 2*, it costs 2 covers per level to get that already ascended 2* from 166 to 266. We don't actually know yet what credit you get back when you ascend that 2* up again, but the suggestion is that you only get 100 levels of credit, not 200 covers of credit. This is "tax" that is being described, and it is only a theoretical tax at the moment until we have confirmation of how these subsequent ascension credits are applied.

But just to reiterate, in your case @rankingucd, the first ascension of 2 3* to 4*, there is no "tax" to consider, and therefore using 2 max champed 3* at 266 means no loss of rewards and no penalty.

I thought the same as you until I did the math a few posts ago. The tax is 300 covers.

For 3 star ascension, 2 3 star 266 and 2 3 star 166 costs (113x2 + 13x2) = 252 covers.

Ascending those creates 2 4 star 270. Levelling 1 of those to 370 costs 100 x 3 covers per level = 300 covers.

Ascending 1 max champ 4 star 370 and 1 max level 4 star 270 creates 1 5 star 450. Levelling that to 550 costs 100 x 4 covers per level = 400 covers.

Total 952 covers.

Max champ method is 4 max = 452 covers.

Ascending x2 nets you 2x 4 star 303 1/3. 66 2/3 more levels is required at a rate of 3 covers per level. That equals 200 covers per toon or 400 covers.

Ascending those 2 produces a level 475 5 star. 300 covers are required to max level that (75 levels x 4).

The max champ method requires 1152 covers. That's a 200 cover tax.

@rainkingucd there is the math.

DAZ0273

.......

Bowgentle

But that's not tax - you got the rewards for the levels on the 3*.

turbomoose

I hope bagman is included eventually, think it would be amusing to turn him into a 3* as I have him max champed twice

jsmjsmjsm00

To summarize the main discussions of the past 20 pages:

1) There is confusion/debate regarding whether higher star ascensions account for the number of covers or the number of levels in the consumed character. This could make a big difference in the number of covers needed to max ascend of you are max champing characters first.

2) Ascended characters won't give retro rewards if they become feeders at a lower star level.

3) Character requirements in PvE and PvP are only by EITHER the character or the star. There are no existing restrictions that impose both character and star requirement.