@KenshinUK said: This new feature sounds pretty good, I and my near 1300 standard packs, look forward to it!
Yeah the issue for me is I still cannot open them all until all the one and two stars are in then system. I’m not wasting covers now!
One thing is for sure, now if spider 1* can ascend to 5* tier, we will have a decent spiderman in 5*. Also a decent Gwen in 5*, thanks to 3* or 4* version.
@Bad said: One thing is for sure, now if spider 1* can ascend to 5* tier, we will have a decent spiderman in 5*. Also a decent Gwen in 5*, thanks to 3* or 4* version.
I think Gwenom will be good too in the tier with ascended 4* Miles and Spidey 2099. That's how I ran her in her featured events and with just 4* she was great. With 5* partners adding more health and actual abilities should be solid
@ArchusMonk said: 3* Ascending vs. Farming I'm going to go through the math of the benefits of Ascending vs farming then selling 3* max champs. Please feel free to correct any typos or errors. The math is going to assume 3* non-feeders to make value comparisons easier. The difference in rewards between feeders and non-feeders is roughly 3 4* cover equivalents in exchange for 3 HT, 2 MT, and 2 CT, which is a minimal difference in my opinion. My math will also assume that you max champ every character before binding them because why would you want to miss out on any rewards? Each 3* level 266 costs 119,919 ISO and requires 113 covers. The champion rewards are 57,500 ISO8, 650 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT, so the net rewards of producing a 3* level 266 are -62,419 ISO8, 650 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT. 2 3* level 266 are required to Ascend to 4*, so the balance sheet is -124,838 ISO8, 1300 HP, 74 CP, 10 HT, 8 MT, 4 CT, and 10 LT. Ascending 2x 3* level 266 produces a 4* level 303 + 1 saved cover (the 4* level 270 produced by 3* 266 + 3* 166 + 100 extra covers/3 covers per level at 4*). Selling a max champ 3* nets you 105,000 ISO8 and 500 HP, so the net rewards for farming a max champ 3* are 42,581 ISO8, 1150 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT, so if you had sold the 2 max champ 3* instead, you would have 85,162 ISO8, 2300 HP, 74 CP, 10 HT, 8 MT, 4 CT, and 10 LT. At this stage, the difference between selling your 2 max champ 3* and Ascending them is -210,000 ISO8 (-124,838 - 85,162) and -1000 HP (1300-2300). NOTE: For simplicity, I am ignoring the champ rewards you would have so far from the 33 4* champ levels since they will be counted in the next step. You need 200 (66 2/3 more levels x 3) more covers to produce a 4 star level 370. The champion rewards for 100 levels (some of which you got as retro rewards on Ascent) are 112,500 ISO8, 4000 HP, 250 CP, and 10 LT, but you could have used those 200 covers to farm 1 more max champ 3 star and had 87 covers left over. As noted above, that max champ 3 star sold would have produced 42,581 ISO8, 1150 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT AND you'd have 87 3 star covers left over. At this stage, the difference between having an Ascended 4 star level 370 vs. farming all those covers and selling the max champs is -140,081 ISO8 (-210,000 from prior stage + 112,500 champ rewards - 42,581 for not farming), 1850 HP (-1000 from prior stage + 4000 from champ rewards - 1150 for missed rewards from farming), 213 CP (250 champ rewards - 37 for missed rewards from farming), -5 HT, -4 MT, -2 CT, 5 LT (10 champ rewards - 5 for missed rewards from farming), and -87 leftover covers. 2 4* level 370 are required to Ascend to 5*, so the balance sheet is -280,162 ISO8, 3700 HP, 416 CP, -10 HT, -8 MT, -4 CT, 10 LT, and -174 leftover covers. Ascending 2x 4* level 370 produces a 5* level 475 (the 5* level 450 produced by 4* 370 + 4* 270 + 100 extra levels/4 covers per level at 5*). You need 300 (75 more levels x4) more covers to produce a 5 star level 550. The champion rewards for 100 levels (some of which you got as retro rewards on Ascent) are 220,000 ISO8, 20,000 HP, 625 CP, and 25 LT, but you could have used those 300 covers (+174 leftover covers) to farm 4 more max champ 3 star and had 22 covers left over. As noted above, those 4 max champ 3 star sold would have produced 170,324 ISO8, 4600 HP, 148 CP, 20 HT, 16 MT, 8 CT, and 20 LT AND you'd have 22 3 star covers left over. At this stage, the difference between having an Ascended 5 star level 550 vs. farming all those covers and selling the max champs is -230,486 ISO8 (-280,162 from prior stage + 220,000 champ rewards -170,324 missed rewards from farming), 11,700 HP (3700 from prior stage + 20000 from champ rewards - 4600 for missed rewards from farming), 893 CP (416 from prior stage + 625 champ rewards - 148 for missed rewards from farming), -30 HT (-10 from prior stage - 20 for missed rewards from farming), -24 MT (-8 from prior stage - 16 from missed rewards for not farming), -12 CT (-4 from prior stage -8 from missed rewards for not farming), 30 LT (10 from prior stage +25 champ rewards -5 missed rewards from farming), and -22 leftover covers. Your total rewards for bringing a 3* to 5* 550 (instead of farming all the covers) are -230,486 ISO8, 11,700 HP, 893 CP, -30 HT, -24 MT, -12 CT, 30 LT, and -22 leftover 3* covers. These numbers are closer, but I'd say Ascending is still favored on balance from a strictly resource perspective. Please check my math and numbers. Champ rewards were obtained from the spreadsheet linked in the first post. Thanks
@ArchusMonk said: 3* Ascending vs. Farming
I'm going to go through the math of the benefits of Ascending vs farming then selling 3* max champs. Please feel free to correct any typos or errors.
The math is going to assume 3* non-feeders to make value comparisons easier. The difference in rewards between feeders and non-feeders is roughly 3 4* cover equivalents in exchange for 3 HT, 2 MT, and 2 CT, which is a minimal difference in my opinion.
My math will also assume that you max champ every character before binding them because why would you want to miss out on any rewards?
Each 3* level 266 costs 119,919 ISO and requires 113 covers. The champion rewards are 57,500 ISO8, 650 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT, so the net rewards of producing a 3* level 266 are -62,419 ISO8, 650 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT.
2 3* level 266 are required to Ascend to 4*, so the balance sheet is -124,838 ISO8, 1300 HP, 74 CP, 10 HT, 8 MT, 4 CT, and 10 LT. Ascending 2x 3* level 266 produces a 4* level 303 + 1 saved cover (the 4* level 270 produced by 3* 266 + 3* 166 + 100 extra covers/3 covers per level at 4*).
Selling a max champ 3* nets you 105,000 ISO8 and 500 HP, so the net rewards for farming a max champ 3* are 42,581 ISO8, 1150 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT, so if you had sold the 2 max champ 3* instead, you would have 85,162 ISO8, 2300 HP, 74 CP, 10 HT, 8 MT, 4 CT, and 10 LT. At this stage, the difference between selling your 2 max champ 3* and Ascending them is -210,000 ISO8 (-124,838 - 85,162) and -1000 HP (1300-2300). NOTE: For simplicity, I am ignoring the champ rewards you would have so far from the 33 4* champ levels since they will be counted in the next step.
You need 200 (66 2/3 more levels x 3) more covers to produce a 4 star level 370. The champion rewards for 100 levels (some of which you got as retro rewards on Ascent) are 112,500 ISO8, 4000 HP, 250 CP, and 10 LT, but you could have used those 200 covers to farm 1 more max champ 3 star and had 87 covers left over. As noted above, that max champ 3 star sold would have produced 42,581 ISO8, 1150 HP, 37 CP, 5 HT, 4 MT, 2 CT, and 5 LT AND you'd have 87 3 star covers left over. At this stage, the difference between having an Ascended 4 star level 370 vs. farming all those covers and selling the max champs is -140,081 ISO8 (-210,000 from prior stage + 112,500 champ rewards - 42,581 for not farming), 1850 HP (-1000 from prior stage + 4000 from champ rewards - 1150 for missed rewards from farming), 213 CP (250 champ rewards - 37 for missed rewards from farming), -5 HT, -4 MT, -2 CT, 5 LT (10 champ rewards - 5 for missed rewards from farming), and -87 leftover covers.
2 4* level 370 are required to Ascend to 5*, so the balance sheet is -280,162 ISO8, 3700 HP, 416 CP, -10 HT, -8 MT, -4 CT, 10 LT, and -174 leftover covers. Ascending 2x 4* level 370 produces a 5* level 475 (the 5* level 450 produced by 4* 370 + 4* 270 + 100 extra levels/4 covers per level at 5*). You need 300 (75 more levels x4) more covers to produce a 5 star level 550. The champion rewards for 100 levels (some of which you got as retro rewards on Ascent) are 220,000 ISO8, 20,000 HP, 625 CP, and 25 LT, but you could have used those 300 covers (+174 leftover covers) to farm 4 more max champ 3 star and had 22 covers left over. As noted above, those 4 max champ 3 star sold would have produced 170,324 ISO8, 4600 HP, 148 CP, 20 HT, 16 MT, 8 CT, and 20 LT AND you'd have 22 3 star covers left over. At this stage, the difference between having an Ascended 5 star level 550 vs. farming all those covers and selling the max champs is -230,486 ISO8 (-280,162 from prior stage + 220,000 champ rewards -170,324 missed rewards from farming), 11,700 HP (3700 from prior stage + 20000 from champ rewards - 4600 for missed rewards from farming), 893 CP (416 from prior stage + 625 champ rewards - 148 for missed rewards from farming), -30 HT (-10 from prior stage - 20 for missed rewards from farming), -24 MT (-8 from prior stage - 16 from missed rewards for not farming), -12 CT (-4 from prior stage -8 from missed rewards for not farming), 30 LT (10 from prior stage +25 champ rewards -5 missed rewards from farming), and -22 leftover covers.
Your total rewards for bringing a 3* to 5* 550 (instead of farming all the covers) are -230,486 ISO8, 11,700 HP, 893 CP, -30 HT, -24 MT, -12 CT, 30 LT, and -22 leftover 3* covers. These numbers are closer, but I'd say Ascending is still favored on balance from a strictly resource perspective.
Please check my math and numbers. Champ rewards were obtained from the spreadsheet linked in the first post. Thanks
All of these write ups are great. Once you figure out if the math is correct would you be willing to do a TLDR breakdown of champing and selling versus farming for each level?
I’m glad you break it down at each step because for me the most important number is the cost for getting to a 475 5* because that’s likely the most realistic scenario for me. 550s are going to be much harder.
Something else I think these evaluations don’t look like they are accounting for is that the 5* reward tree are basically like the last 4 levels of a max champ 4 star just over and over, so the 5k iso one is going to be the only bummer. So imagine you use a 13 cover unchamped dupe to make a 450.
The first four levels of a champ 4* are: LT 2CP 2500 iso 2CP
Compared to 4:1 LT
Then: 50hp 2CP 2500 iso 2CP
Compared to 4:1 5000 iso
Then: 50hp LT/Cover 2500 iso 3cp
Compared to 4:1 25cp
Then: 50hp 3cp 2500 iso 3cp
Compared to 4:1 250 hp
So the first 29 levels (base 13 covers + 16) work out to: 4* dupe 1x LT/1 cover or 2x lt 150hp 7500 iso 13cp
And 5* jump up: 1x LT 5k iso 25cp 250 hp
So you’re down a little iso, and up on HP and CP to go with ascendant at lower (more achievable) champ levels. 5* rewards do step up a few times when you get closer to the 500s. Whether you want to go that route is up to you of course.
Sorry in advance, because I'm sure this has been covered, but when I last looked at this thread there were only five pages...
True or false: It is better to Ascend a character with a max-champed version than with a newly-champed version.
To use a specific example: If I'm ascending Psylocke, I should use 2 level 266 copies rather than 1 level 266 and 1 level 166. The reason for this is that each 3-star cover (or equivalent number of shards) grants 3-star champion rewards, but you need 4 such covers/sets of shards to get the 4-star champion rewards ... and you will get those anyway once you ascend the character.
Exception: It may be worth it to forego the lower-tier champion rewards in the above scenario if you would prefer to have the higher-level character sooner.
@Aweberman said: True or false: It is better to Ascend a character with a max-champed version than with a newly-champed version.
@Aweberman said:
True - when ascending you get credit for the covers used on the 2nd copy used in ascension. So for ascension levels you are not penalized for using a copy that is not a just champed copy.
Example stuff: 1. Ascend 370 + 270 4* = 450 5* - you then start getting rewards at 4:1 for the 5* only copy, so 100 more 4* covers = 475 5* and 25 5* champ rewards
This is then true at lower levels too, so waiting at 2* and 3* for a max dupe to use just adds more rewards.
@Aweberman said: Sorry in advance, because I'm sure this has been covered, but when I last looked at this thread there were only five pages... True or false: It is better to Ascend a character with a max-champed version than with a newly-champed version. To use a specific example: If I'm ascending Psylocke, I should use 2 level 266 copies rather than 1 level 266 and 1 level 166. The reason for this is that each 3-star cover (or equivalent number of shards) grants 3-star champion rewards, but you need 4 such covers/sets of shards to get the 4-star champion rewards ... and you will get those anyway once you ascend the character. Exception: It may be worth it to forego the lower-tier champion rewards in the above scenario if you would prefer to have the higher-level character sooner.
@Aweberman said: Sorry in advance, because I'm sure this has been covered, but when I last looked at this thread there were only five pages...
Aside from double dipping rewards questions. There no drawback to merging to max champed chars.
Yes, there will be specific characters where its obvious that you need to speed him along to the next tier. But in general, there no compelling reason to rush a char.
FWIW I plan to merge my max champed dupes as appropriate, and I'll prioritize specific power types like (battery, web generators, board control specialists etc) as approriate.
But overall, I'll just apply covers at their base rarity and just ascend fully maxed champs. Putting aside the idea of a 550 juggs, any scenario that farms 1* covers vs just selling will be the better way to proceed.
Aside from a few key chars like (IM40, 3Thanos, 4 Polaris, 4* AC) who can make an immediate impact for all tiers of players, the rest of the chars are just resource generators.
@ArchusMonk said: 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2* 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2* 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*
@ArchusMonk said: 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*
2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*
3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*
You're leveling up every character to Max Champ every time, but you don't have to do that. Each binding only needs to be between 1 Max Champ (144, 266, 370) and 1 Max Level (94, 166, 270) character.
Are you only doing that because you're worried about missing out on the 50 - 100 levels of feeder rewards? My method was just prioritizing getting to level 550 as quickly as possible, using the minimum number of covers necessary.
@meadowsweet said: @ArchusMonk said: 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2* 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2* 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3* You're leveling up every character to Max Champ every time, but you don't have to do that. Each binding only needs to be between 1 Max Champ (144, 266, 370) and 1 Max Level (94, 166, 270) character. Are you only doing that because you're worried about missing out on the 50 - 100 levels of feeder rewards? My method was just prioritizing getting to level 550 as quickly as possible, using the minimum number of covers necessary.
@meadowsweet said:
The number of covers required do not change whether you ascend max champs or ascend a max champ and a max level.
Part of your error was not enough bindings. For the stage 1, you have 16 max level 1*, so you have 8 bindings, not 4. That’s 200 covers right there. Then the math follows for the next stage where you missed bindings.
@Kolence said: @ArchusMonk said: @meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550: 5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ) 4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) [Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.] It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character. Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong! 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 16x13=208 to make 16 max 1*. 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4x max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1908 covers. 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1804 covers. 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1152 covers. I think you're both right, if everything works like we think atm It's just the older quote is leveling 1 copy to max champ and the other to base champ level, in order to ascend to the next tier. At each tier... The newer quote looks like leveling 2 copies to max champ and then merging them. Which gives even better overall returns per 1* cover... It's clear that farming will be even better, with 1*s now. But what's funny to me, is it's best returns to sell at max champ 4-stars, for "flipping" a character in the farm. At least in terms of Iso-8. Just shows how expensive 4-stars have remained all these years (3-stars cost to champ got reduced long ago...) Also, up to max champ 3-star, it's the same total number of covers (302), whether you max champ both 2-stars or just one. At max champ 4-star, it would take extra 200 covers, but you again double dip on 3-star champ rewards.
@Kolence said:
@ArchusMonk said: @meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550: 5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ) 4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) [Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.] It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character. Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong! 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 16x13=208 to make 16 max 1*. 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4x max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1908 covers. 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1804 covers. 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1152 covers.
@ArchusMonk said:
@meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550: 5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ) 4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) [Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.] It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character. Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong!
@meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550:
5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ)
4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension)
3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension)
2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension)
1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension)
1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension)
[Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.]
It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character.
Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong!
1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 16x13=208 to make 16 max 1*. 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4x max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1908 covers.
2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1804 covers.
3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1152 covers.
I think you're both right, if everything works like we think atm It's just the older quote is leveling 1 copy to max champ and the other to base champ level, in order to ascend to the next tier. At each tier... The newer quote looks like leveling 2 copies to max champ and then merging them. Which gives even better overall returns per 1* cover... It's clear that farming will be even better, with 1*s now. But what's funny to me, is it's best returns to sell at max champ 4-stars, for "flipping" a character in the farm. At least in terms of Iso-8. Just shows how expensive 4-stars have remained all these years (3-stars cost to champ got reduced long ago...) Also, up to max champ 3-star, it's the same total number of covers (302), whether you max champ both 2-stars or just one. At max champ 4-star, it would take extra 200 covers, but you again double dip on 3-star champ rewards.
The number of covers required does not change whether you ascend max champs or ascend a max champ and a max level.
Example: 2 max champ 2 star requires 126 covers and that produces a 3 star level 191. 150 more covers are required to take that to level 266. Total 276 covers.
1 max champ 2 star and 1 max level 2 star requires 76 covers and that produces a 3 star level 166. 200 more covers are required to take that to level 266. Total 276 covers.
@ArchusMonk said: @Kolence said: @ArchusMonk said: @meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550: 5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ) 4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) [Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.] It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character. Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong! 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 16x13=208 to make 16 max 1*. 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4x max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1908 covers. 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1804 covers. 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1152 covers. I think you're both right, if everything works like we think atm It's just the older quote is leveling 1 copy to max champ and the other to base champ level, in order to ascend to the next tier. At each tier... The newer quote looks like leveling 2 copies to max champ and then merging them. Which gives even better overall returns per 1* cover... It's clear that farming will be even better, with 1*s now. But what's funny to me, is it's best returns to sell at max champ 4-stars, for "flipping" a character in the farm. At least in terms of Iso-8. Just shows how expensive 4-stars have remained all these years (3-stars cost to champ got reduced long ago...) Also, up to max champ 3-star, it's the same total number of covers (302), whether you max champ both 2-stars or just one. At max champ 4-star, it would take extra 200 covers, but you again double dip on 3-star champ rewards. The number of covers required does not change whether you ascend max champs or ascend a max champ and a max level. Example: 2 max champ 2 star requires 126 covers and that produces a 3 star level 191. 150 more covers are required to take that to level 266. Total 276 covers. 1 max champ 2 star and 1 max level
1 max champ 2 star and 1 max level
You're giving the example with number of covers of 2-stars. The first quoted post was counting the number of required 1-star covers to ascend. The fastest way. I gave the numbers in 1-star covers too, but it doesn't change the part where I said it's the same number of covers to ascend to max champ 3-star. Whether you merge two max champed 2-stars or a max champ and a base champ. The former gives more rewards, and the latter gives you an ascended 3-star (and a freed roster slot) earlier. You should make your example for 4-stars and you'll see that the number of covers in that case does increase. Should be 100 more with 2-stars, 752 vs. 652. But you do get the double rewards yet again, at 3-star levels.
@Kolence said: @ArchusMonk said: @Kolence said: @ArchusMonk said: @meadowsweet said: So I've probably screwed up my maths somewhere, but I was trying to work out how many total covers (or shard equivalents) it would take in order to level up a character all the way to 550: 5★: 113 covers (straightforward: 13 covers to champ, 100 covers to max champ) 4★: 526 covers (13+113=126 4★ Binding, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 3★: 952 covers (2x13+2x113=252 3★ Bindings, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 2★: 1,404 covers (4x13+4x63=304 2★ Bindings, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (3 Powers): 1,508 covers (16x13=208 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) 1★ (2 Powers): 1,460 covers (16x10=160 1★ Bindings, 4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions, 2x2x100=400 3★ Ascensions, 1x3x100=300 4★ Ascension, 1x4x100=400 5★ Ascension) [Legend: "4x1x50=200 2★ Ascensions" means you have to upgrade (4) characters at an 'exchange rate' of (1) cover per level through (50) total levels, at a cost of (200) covers.] It is odd that the 'exchange rate' at the 5★ tier is 4 covers per 1 level, regardless of whether you're talking about a 4★ character or a 2★ character. Given how much more common 2★ covers are than 4★ covers (and the fact that they're divided amongst many fewer 2★ characters), a 2★ character will fly from level 450 to level 550 in a tiny fraction of the time that it will take the 4★ character. Anyway, feel free to let me know what I got wrong! 1* (3 Powers) should be 1908 covers 16x13=208 to make 16 max 1*. 8 bindings produces 8 2* level 94 x 50 level each = 400 covers to make 8x max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4x max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1908 covers. 2* should be 1804 covers 8x63=504 to make 8 max 2*. 4 max bindings produces 4 3* level 191 x 75 more levels each x 2 covers per level = 600 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1804 covers. 3* should be 1152 covers 4x113=452 covers to make 4 max 3*. 2 max bindings produces 2 4* level 303 + 1 extra cover x 66 2/3 more levels each x 3 covers per level = 400 covers to make 2x max 4*. 1 max binding produces a 5* level 475 x 75 more levels x 4 covers per level = 300 covers. Total = 1152 covers. I think you're both right, if everything works like we think atm It's just the older quote is leveling 1 copy to max champ and the other to base champ level, in order to ascend to the next tier. At each tier... The newer quote looks like leveling 2 copies to max champ and then merging them. Which gives even better overall returns per 1* cover... It's clear that farming will be even better, with 1*s now. But what's funny to me, is it's best returns to sell at max champ 4-stars, for "flipping" a character in the farm. At least in terms of Iso-8. Just shows how expensive 4-stars have remained all these years (3-stars cost to champ got reduced long ago...) Also, up to max champ 3-star, it's the same total number of covers (302), whether you max champ both 2-stars or just one. At max champ 4-star, it would take extra 200 covers, but you again double dip on 3-star champ rewards. The number of covers required does not change whether you ascend max champs or ascend a max champ and a max level. Example: 2 max champ 2 star requires 126 covers and that produces a 3 star level 191. 150 more covers are required to take that to level 266. Total 276 covers. 1 max champ 2 star and 1 max level You're giving the example with number of covers of 2-stars. The first quoted post was counting the number of required 1-star covers to ascend. The fastest way. I gave the numbers in 1-star covers too, but it doesn't change the part where I said it's the same number of covers to ascend to max champ 3-star. Whether you merge two max champed 2-stars or a max champ and a base champ. The former gives more rewards, and the latter gives you an ascended 3-star (and a freed roster slot) earlier. You should make your example for 4-stars and you'll see that the number of covers in that case does increase. Should be 100 more with 2-stars, 752 vs. 652. But you do get the double rewards yet again, at 3-star levels.
This is simply not correct. The OP had a math error in his post. He only did 4 bindings instead of 8 at level 1. THE NUMBER OF COVERS REQUIRED DOES NOT CHANGE REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU DECIDE TO ASCEND. The devs said as much in their post.
from the dev post
Wait, so what happens if I have two 266 3-Stars and Bind them to make a 4-Star? I can make a 4-Star with a 166 and a 266, so do I just lose the extra covers from using a 266 instead? You’ll automatically get the “extra” covers in credit towards the next rarity. So in this case, you’d get the 4-Star Ascended character and 100 covers worth of credit towards those new levels, just like Saved Covers work when you Champion a character.
Just for fun, I will make my example 4 star as you suggest.
2 max champ 4* requires 226 covers. Ascending them produces a 5* level 475 which requires 300 more covers to take to 550. Total covers 526.
1 max champ 4* and 1 max level 4 star requires 126 covers. Ascending them produces a 5* level 450 which requires 400 more covers to take to 550. Total covers 526.
The take home from all this is that unless you are in a super rush to have an ascended character, it is always best to ascend 2 max champs to maximize your champ rewards.
@ArchusMonk Guess we'll see very soon. IceIX gave the example on discord of two level 266 Iron Man copies merging into a level 303 (and some change in shards I guess?). It shows that the 100 levels you gave to the 2nd 3-star copy is only worth 33 levels for the 4-star. But, whether you used 1-stars or 2-stars to ascend, you still had to spend 200 covers for those 100 levels of a 2nd 3-star. Which now only give 33 levels of a 4-star. Which would cost only 100 covers if they were applied to a level 270 ascended character.
@Kolence said:@ArchusMonk Guess we'll see very soon. IceIX gave the example on discord of two level 266 Iron Man copies merging into a level 303 (and some change in shards I guess?). It shows that the 100 levels you gave to the 2nd 3-star copy is only worth 33 levels for the 4-star. But, whether you used 1-stars or 2-stars to ascend, you still had to spend 200 covers for those 100 levels of a 2nd 3-star. Which now only give 33 levels of a 4-star. Which would cost only 100 covers if they were applied to a level 270 ascended character.
I'll do the final example then since you're a non-believer.
2 3 star max champs requires 226 covers. Ascending them produces a 4* level 303 and 1 cover which requires 200 more covers (66 2/3 levels x 3 covers/level) to take to level 370. Total 426 covers.
1 3 star max champ and 1 3 star max level requires 126 covers. Ascending them produces a 4* level 270 which requires 300 more covers to take to level 370. Total 426 covers.
And note, this is in no way inconsistent with the example Icex gave. He’s basically demonstrating that you don’t lose any cover “credit”.
Sigh... Let me be more precise then. At every rarity, ascending to the next higher one is as you say. It takes the same number of covers. You keep pick and choosing your examples so it's like that - ascending two 2-stars to a 3-star, or two 3-stars to a 4-star. I've spelled out how it should work, based on the table the first post gave, and the example Ice provided on discord. With two copies of 1-star 266 character.
@Kolence said: Sigh... Let me be more precise then. At every rarity, ascending to the next higher one is as you say. It takes the same number of covers. You keep pick and choosing your examples so it's like that - ascending two 2-stars to a 3-star, or two 3-stars to a 4-star. I've spelled out how it should work, based on the table the first post gave, and the example Ice provided on discord. With two copies of 1-star 266 character.
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Icex and I are saying the exact same thing. You get full credit at the next level for any champ levels you put in at the lower level.
I’m not “picking levels where it’s like that” because every example is like that. That’s how it works!
I don’t know why you insist on fighting math. Find me an example where it isn’t like that. I’ll save you time. That example does not exist.
I've already given the example. You quoted that response, but maybe didn't read it? Or at least not very well. I'm done responding about this. As I've said, we'll see very soon.
@Kolence said: I've already given the example. You quoted that response, but maybe didn't read it? Or at least not very well. I'm done responding about this. As I've said, we'll see very soon.
Are you talking about this?
It shows that the 100 levels you gave to the 2nd 3-star copy is only worth 33 levels for the 4-star. But, whether you used 1-stars or 2-stars to ascend, you still had to spend 200 covers for those 100 levels of a 2nd 3-star. Which now only give 33 levels of a 4-star. Which would cost only 100 covers if they were applied to a level 270 ascended character.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
When I started reading this discussion, I was firmly in agreement with @ArchusMonk ie. it doesn't matter at any level whether you use 2 max champs or a max champ + newly champed to ascend, the total number of required covers is the same. This is because IceX explained you get credit for those covers.
However, as I have thought more about this, I believe I understand @Kolance's point and it might well have merit.
@Kolance, I think this is the point you are making. The potential additional cost in levels only applies to additional ascensions after ascended levels cost more than 1 cover. Let me give an example. Once your 2* has ascended to be a 2ascended3 it now costs 200 covers to get the 2ascended3 to be max champed. When you ascend again using max champed 2ascended3s, you get credit for the max champed levels. But how much credit do you get? Is the credit based on additional levels or additional covers needed to build those levels ie. It now costs 3 covers to add each level to a 2ascended4. So do you get 100 levels / 3 = 33 levels added to your 2ascended4, or do you get the cost of 200 covers to create those 100 levels / 3 = 66 levels added to your 2ascended4. For the number of covers to be the same, the credit would need to be the full 200 covers.
Be really interested to know if this has already been answered somewhere and I've just missed it amongst all the information swirling around here.
As entrail has said, it would be really good to have 1 central repository of information for champions2.0 once we understand it fully.