New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

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  • Punter1
    Punter1 Posts: 729 Critical Contributor

    My highest dupe 4* is Cap Marvel at 340, a function of a decent character so fave'd at some points who was also around during the time of latest 12 boosted odds. She is 6.5 years old, released in Jan 2017.

    Reality is for the vast majority ascension of double max 4s is a long laborious process. Lots of theoretical talk in here, but be interested to see if ascended 4* start appearing in my MMR world soon.

    I am still 30 covers from having a double max dupe and another 3+ years from another 100 covers for dupe #3 or an ascended lvl 500 5*. Collecting 100 covers, never mind 300 covers for a 550 is not quick.

    One debated point is 4* rewards vs ascended 5* rewards, I take the quicker drip of 4* champ rewards and guaranteed 5* from feeders over the 5* alternate.

    From the character playability as ascended side - as a player I am happy with the rotating boost and large number of 5* characters at my disposal, I still get a good weekly variety style of play. I don't see a benefit to my daily play to add ascended 4*s into the mix so I will likely not be ascending 4s. (but then again I've still got 30 Cap Marvels to collect before I need to decide!)

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,992 Chairperson of the Boards

    Pulling classics speeds up the process pretty significantly -- ask @ThaRoadWarrior. I've got a ton of 4* dupes, including a bunch of double-max guys, ready to go for tomorrow.

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker

    @ArchusMonk said:
    I'm not sure what you are referencing. Do you mean this table?
    If this is the table you mean, then I think you're mis-interpreting it.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "under-credit"?
    I'm not sure what you are arguing in this section below.
    Where are you getting those numbers?

    I'm sorry if I'm not explaining it well enough for you to follow.

    You are not properly converting the value of 100 levels of Max Champ upgrades before you divide them by the cost of the next tier. Your math says:
    100 levels of 3★ Max Champ upgrades = 100 covers. 100 covers / (3 covers per 4★ level) = 33.3 levels
    100 levels of 4★ Max Champ upgrades = 100 covers. 100 covers / (4 covers per 5★ level) = 25 levels

    You're saying "1 level = 1 cover", regardless of the tier. By your math:
    1 level of 3★ Max Champ upgrades = 1 cover = 1 level of 4★ Max Champ upgrades

    But... that math doesn't work. "Levels" are not interchangeable between 3★ & 4★ characters. You should be converting back to the actual common currency: covers. That's why your level 550 costs 400 more covers than mine. Not all levels are created equal:
    2★ = one 1★ cover
    3★ = two 1★ covers
    4★ = three 1★ covers
    5★ = four 1★ covers

    If you convert back to covers first, the math looks like this instead:
    100 levels of 3★ Max Champ upgrades = 200 covers. 200 covers / (3 covers per 4★ level) = 66.7 levels
    100 levels of 4★ Max Champ upgrades = 300 covers. 300 covers / (4 covers per 5★ level) = 75 levels

    Your math is cheating yourself out of the credit for the covers you have invested in the increasingly more expensive levels as you go higher and higher. You are giving away levels that you have earned and paid for, and forcing yourself to pay for the same levels a second time, making it more expensive and slower for yourself.

    You said yourself that the math MUST match, regardless of whether players are using Max Champ or Max Level characters (or anything in between.) So do the exercise for yourself: run through the math, upgrading characters to Level 550 using the bare-minimum Max Level characters wherever possible. If you come up with a different answer than you arrived at using only Max Champ characters, then you know that it cannot be correct - they MUST match.

  • meadowsweet
    meadowsweet Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker

    @ArchusMonk, like I said, hopefully @IceIX just misspoke and that's not the actual plan?

    If not, hopefully the devs realize their unintentional error and fix it before releasing?

    If not, hopefully they'll roll out retroactive rewards to the folks who immediately Bind two Max Champ characters and miss out on champ levels at the next tier?

    If not, hopefully they have a good explanation at why they decided the two methods (Max Champ vs. Max Level) should not match one another?

  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    In the FAQ, IceIX describes the extra levels as being applied "just like Saved Covers work", so we should get the champion level rewards on the higher tier character.

    @IceIX said:
    Wait, so what happens if I have two 266 3-Stars and Bind them to make a 4-Star? I can make a 4-Star with a 166 and a 266, so do I just lose the extra covers from using a 266 instead?
    You’ll automatically get the “extra” covers in credit towards the next rarity. So in this case, you’d get the 4-Star Ascended character and 100 covers worth of credit towards those new levels, just like Saved Covers work when you Champion a character.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,745 Chairperson of the Boards

    18 freaking pages of this and there's still confusion.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,286 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I've been skipping all the math stuff because I assume it's not optimal to Ascend every single character possible right away, and I am absolutely, unquestionably, 100% going to spend all day doing that immediately whenever this drops.

    Really looking forward to you doing a writeup on your results in a separate post so the rest of us can see how it's playing out.

    KGB

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    Should I be recruiting and leveling 1* dupes so I can use them to ascend once they’re eligible? I have one set of max level but I’m guessing we shouldn’t be selling anything at this point?

  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2023

    @ArchusMonk
    No worries. At least I got to be called an Unbeliever. And my name's not even Thom...

    Here's the table just for 1-star ascension.
    I tried making it online for markdown, but it's either impossible, or not on a phone, or I suck.

    EDIT - Pffft. Messed up the starting 13 covers while copying to that online table generator. Now the covers counts are good.


  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    @Kolence @meadowsweet @ArchusMonk
    Alright, I’ve done the comparison and must admit that you guys are right. Ascending to 550 with max+min champs takes fewer covers than max+max champs. Why? It’s because you pay the cover/level ratio (3:1 or 4:1) an extra time for 3-Stars and two extra times with 2-Stars. So, that’s 200 more covers with 3-Stars and 400 more covers with 2-Stars. This doesn’t happen going up 1 tier, like 4-Stars would.

    Now comes the harder math problem - which method gives you better champ rewards? I’m assuming the max+min champ method will because you jump to the next tier faster, but I want to confirm that.

  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor

    @bbigler said:
    @Kolence @meadowsweet @ArchusMonk
    Alright, I’ve done the comparison and must admit that you guys are right. Ascending to 550 with max+min champs takes fewer covers than max+max champs. Why? It’s because you pay the cover/level ratio (3:1 or 4:1) an extra time for 3-Stars and two extra times with 2-Stars. So, that’s 200 more covers with 3-Stars and 400 more covers with 2-Stars. This doesn’t happen going up 1 tier, like 4-Stars would.

    Now comes the harder math problem - which method gives you better champ rewards? I’m assuming the max+min champ method will because you jump to the next tier faster, but I want to confirm that.

    No. You get strictly more champ rewards for some extra low level covers, if you wait with merging. Now, it's the same question as with opening tokens when you may not be able to roster everything. But that's too complicated for me.

    We'll "waste" some 1's and 2's while waiting for the next batches. Or, some might hoard the standard and elite/heroic tokens for a while. I know I won't be able to resist checking how quickly 1*s can progress... :D

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,745 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Daredevil217 said:
    Should I be recruiting and leveling 1* dupes so I can use them to ascend once they’re eligible? I have one set of max level but I’m guessing we shouldn’t be selling anything at this point?

    I think 1* characters are the only consensus "YES!", if only because they go from no champ rewards to champ rewards via ascension. They are a no-brainer.

  • turbomoose
    turbomoose Posts: 809 Critical Contributor

    When does this go live ??

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Whenever the update populates to the Appstore / whatever your OS uses.
    If they didn't fail cert, then later today.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards

    It would be interesting to know how many of the player base are actually capable of ascending a 4* today on launch, not getting into the best scenario of double dipping etc - just if you are actually capable of doing it straight away. So who has a max champ + champed dupe of some level? Doesn't matter if you are not planning on doing it - just maybe say if you have the capability in this thread from from launch.

    Definitely not me!

    I am gonna dabble with 1* Spidey though - I know my limits!

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    I have a few double 370s, not as many as a year ago though - sold some feeders.
    I'm not sure I want to ascend current non-feeders... Those two maxed Rhulks could become 12 5* covers eventually.
    My second Gwenpool is 365, I might ascend her.

  • BlixTheFrog
    BlixTheFrog Posts: 193 Tile Toppler

    @DAZ0273 said:
    It would be interesting to know how many of the player base are actually capable of ascending a 4* today on launch, not getting into the best scenario of double dipping etc - just if you are actually capable of doing it straight away. So who has a max champ + champed dupe of some level? Doesn't matter if you are not planning on doing it - just maybe say if you have the capability in this thread from from launch.

    Definitely not me!

    I am gonna dabble with 1* Spidey though - I know my limits!

    I have a few, including Medusa... but I’ve faved her and won’t merge until the second one is 370 (330-ish now, shouldn’t be too long)

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