New Feature - Champions 2.0 (Live with R287)

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:
I've been skipping all the math stuff because I assume it's not optimal to Ascend every single character possible right away, and I am absolutely, unquestionably, 100% going to spend all day doing that immediately whenever this drops.

Really looking forward to you doing a writeup on your results in a separate post so the rest of us can see how it's playing out.

KGB

Honestly I'm just way, way too dumb to do that in a way that could benefit anybody else.

What I will be able to do, probably relatively quickly, is to give some impressions of who does what at the next tier, and how well they do it relative to others.

meadowsweet

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

turbomoose

I have captain marvel, Medusa, iron fist, mordo, nick fury, Peggy carter , Polaris rocket and groot, Valkyrie , wolverine and yondu all max champed and a champed dupe so I might be able to do a few of them

Bowgentle

I'll definitely wait for dual 370s, those 4* champ rewards are so backloaded, it hurts giving up the ones from 340+ onwards.

GrimSkald

@jsmjsmjsm00 said:
To summarize the main discussions of the past 20 pages:

1) There is confusion/debate regarding whether higher star ascensions account for the number of covers or the number of levels in the consumed character. This could make a big difference in the number of covers needed to max ascend of you are max champing characters first.

2) Ascended characters won't give retro rewards if they become feeders at a lower star level.

3) Character requirements in PvE and PvP are only by EITHER the character or the star. There are no existing restrictions that impose both character and star requirement.

I strongly suspect the answer to 1 is going to be "levels," which means yes, there would be a loss for max-champing a second character if it's of a higher tier (i.e. (2)Storm 3* - you will have paid double cost for leveling her to 166, and will be getting 1/3 of the levels back, so you'll be paying 100 covers to get 33 levels if you max champ the second (2) Storm.) I hadn't thought of that, but it does make sense.

2 - at this time that is the case, they may revisit this if there's a hubub, which I suspect there will be the first time it happens.

3 - The way I read it the star level is only specified in DDQ and in certain PVPs (Combined Arms is the only one I can think of.) So yeah, it won't be a huge disadvantage to ascend particular characters and not keep a base level copy so long as you have toons of that star level.

ArchusMonk

@Bowgentle said:
But that's not tax - you got the rewards for the levels on the 3*.

Yes. The question is whether 3* rewards on 2 toons is worth the extra 200 covers. This is a personal decision I’d say. You’re balancing 2x 3* level champ rewards vs having your Ascended character sooner and needing 200 fewer covers. I’m someone that tries to maximize all my rewards, but I feel like I’ll probably go Min/max at the 2* and 3* levels. I’ll definitely go max champ at the 4* level since there is no tax and the champ rewards are much better.

GrimSkald

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

A lot of the 5★ players are already doing this. I have been for three or four years now -- unfortunately I sold a few of my max-champ 4★s I considered "safe," ones that were already feeders, I stopped selling 4★s that didn't feed themselves when Broken Circle gave us Shardmas last year, but it's still a fair bit. Peggy and Miles before the latter, Cyclops and 4* Thor after. Ironically these have become the best candidates to Ascend for exactly the same reason, but other than Captain Marvel and Miles I'm not sure missing out on anyone who will be particularly good in the 5★ tier.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

Bowgentle

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

A lot of the 5★ players are already doing this. I have been for three or four years now -- unfortunately I sold a few of my max-champ 4★s I considered "safe," ones that were already feeders, I stopped selling 4★s that didn't feed themselves when Broken Circle gave us Shardmas last year, but it's still a fair bit. Peggy and Miles before the latter, Cyclops and 4* Thor after. Ironically these have become the best candidates to Ascend for exactly the same reason, but other than Captain Marvel and Miles I'm not sure missing out on anyone who will be particularly good in the 5★ tier.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

Yeah, if anything, this might free up some roster slots for me.
I have two maxed 3* Colossus plus a 190+, I can safely get rid of one of those now.
Same for Mystique and a whole lot of others.
Merging 370s is a very nice solution to the "it takes so long to max a 4, I'm not selling dupes" dilemma.

Phumade

@DAZ0273 said:
It would be interesting to know how many of the player base are actually capable of ascending a 4* today on launch, not getting into the best scenario of double dipping etc - just if you are actually capable of doing it straight away. So who has a max champ + champed dupe of some level? Doesn't matter if you are not planning on doing it - just maybe say if you have the capability in this thread from from launch.

Definitely not me!

I am gonna dabble with 1* Spidey though - I know my limits!

From the very begining, I've always kept my 4* max champs as trophies and rotational pieces. I've got about 40 double maxed champed 4*. This is by no means unique, and I'm probably one of the smaller rosters for people who play in Top 25 alliances.

I've sold a fair amount of maxed champed 3*, but even here i've got 10 ready to go and the farms in full production.

entrailbucket

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

370s, sure.
Merging sub-370s you lose the rewards you'd have gotten from the 4s.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

370s, sure.
Merging sub-370s you lose the rewards you'd have gotten from the 4s.

Yep, and that's fine, because I'll get a bunch of 5* champion rewards right now to offset that loss, plus I'll get a new 5* character that I can play the actual game with, because I play this game to play it and not to optimize rewards or whatever

meadowsweet

@Bowgentle said:
I have two maxed 3* Colossus plus a 190+, I can safely get rid of one of those now.
Same for Mystique and a whole lot of others.

See, I've always been just the opposite. I was always a one roster slot per unique character type of player. I would farm my 3★ characters, of course. But I never saw the point in having three separate Colossuses when I never used any of them to begin with (unless required - and when he was required, I was pairing him with two 5★ characters like Okoye & Immortal Hulk, so I didn't care if he only was only a 4 cover, 1/2/1, level 70 or whatever.)

But that's what the developers do to you. Pull the rug out from under you and make you retroactively feel like you've been playing the game "wrong" for the past 10 years...

GrimSkald

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "you'll lose 12 covers of a new 5★ if they ever become feeders." That answer sucks, if you ask me, but it's currently the answer. I would have expected 6, but no, it's 12. Ascended characters will not get retroactive rewards.

entrailbucket

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "you'll lose 12 covers of a new 5★ if they ever become feeders." That answer sucks, if you ask me, but it's currently the answer. I would have expected 6, but no, it's 12. Ascended characters will not get retroactive rewards.

Eh. Theoretical future rewards mean absolutely nothing to me -- I can't use them to play the game today. Also, I'm about to get like 200 new 5* and they'll spit out a token every 4 covers. I'm not worried about missing out on a Latest guy ever again.

GrimSkald

@meadowsweet said:

@Bowgentle said:
I have two maxed 3* Colossus plus a 190+, I can safely get rid of one of those now.
Same for Mystique and a whole lot of others.

See, I've always been just the opposite. I was always a one roster slot per unique character type of player. I would farm my 3★ characters, of course. But I never saw the point in having three separate Colossuses when I never used any of them to begin with (unless required - and when he was required, I was pairing him with two 5★ characters like Okoye & Immortal Hulk, so I didn't care if he only was only a 4 cover, 1/2/1, level 70 or whatever.)

But that's what the developers do to you. Pull the rug out from under you and make you retroactively feel like you've been playing the game "wrong" for the past 10 years...

LOL. I liked playing the 3★s at the highest level I could in PVP, so I tended to only sell the main 266 when their PVP was far enough away that I could get them to 266 before that happened. In practice that means my characters above 210 or so don't have dupes, 210 or less do, so it will be a few weeks before I can ascend any 3★s, unless I favorite one, which I probably will.

Altair22

If R287 comes out today. well I already have a 3 star loki and Magneto maxed out with 166 lvl dupes. so those will be ascended for 4 stars. Looking forward to this one. 99 percent of m 3s are maxed, , 40 percent of my 4s are maxed. Be interesting to see what the rewards are for these ascended characters.

GrimSkald

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "you'll lose 12 covers of a new 5★ if they ever become feeders." That answer sucks, if you ask me, but it's currently the answer. I would have expected 6, but no, it's 12. Ascended characters will not get retroactive rewards.

Eh. Theoretical future rewards mean absolutely nothing to me -- I can't use them to play the game today. Also, I'm about to get like 200 new 5* and they'll spit out a token every 4 covers. I'm not worried about missing out on a Latest guy ever again.

Technically it's a pull every eight covers (since the exchange rate is 4:1, and 5*s give you a pull ever 2 levels,) but yeah, that makes sense. My counter attitude is "I'm not sure I'm going to use this 5★ so losing out on those theoretical rewards might really hurt down the line." It's a different attitude toward play. Honestly, as people go over above, it may well be better to re-roster the 4★ again and level that for rewards than to level up the (4) 5★, at least assuming you're looking for the rewards and not looking to level a (4) 5★ you don't use much, and TBH that is what I will probably do.

KGB

@ArchusMonk said:

@Bowgentle said:
But that's not tax - you got the rewards for the levels on the 3*.

Yes. The question is whether 3* rewards on 2 toons is worth the extra 200 covers. This is a personal decision I’d say. You’re balancing 2x 3* level champ rewards vs having your Ascended character sooner and needing 200 fewer covers. I’m someone that tries to maximize all my rewards, but I feel like I’ll probably go Min/max at the 2* and 3* levels. I’ll definitely go max champ at the 4* level since there is no tax and the champ rewards are much better.

You only pay the tax on the 2nd and beyond ascension.

In other words, if you max champ (266) 4 3* to make a pair of 4* you are fine (no tax). You'd only pay a tax if you tried to max champ both those 2 4* to make a 5. That's the point where you want to just max champ 1 of those 4* and then ascend directly to 5* land to avoid the tax.

The same goes for 2s. You are find to max champ those to ascend to 3 land. But that that point you only want to level one of them to 266 and leave the other at 166 to ascend to 4* land to avoid the tax.

KGB

entrailbucket

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@entrailbucket said:

@GrimSkald said:

@meadowsweet said:

@Korky1 said:
Surely the best use is to merge max champs, that way you have the rewards to both levels

Remember that waiting for two Max Champs means tying up two roster slots for significantly longer.

For example, let's just take the 4★ Tier. There are currently 143 characters, so you need 143 roster slots just to have everyone. If you're only trying to get to Max Level duplicates (13 covers), then at any given time you might be waiting on 10% of your dupes to be ready, so you might need another 14-15 roster slots.

If you're waiting on Max Champs, you need to collect an additional 113 covers for every 4★ character on your roster. That could take months or years. You'll need to have a second roster slot for almost every one of the 143 characters, which in turn is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of Hero Points. And that's just the 4★ tier - you'll need additional roster slots for the 81 characters in the 1★, 2★, and 3★ tiers as well. And 3 new characters are being added every four weeks...

So if roster slots & HP are no object and you're overflowing with both, max champs may be the way to go. But I'm probably going to need to use Max Level (Min Champs) just to strategize with the roster slots I've got.

Some 4★s will make good 5★s, I think, but most of them will be outclassed by the existing 5★ tier, which is as it should be. My current plan is to ascend only "safe" and really useful 4★s, and then only when they're both max-champed unless I really feel the lack of that (4) 5★

So, we don't know what ascended 4* will really look like yet, but I'm confident that they'll all be better as 5*.

Like, right now there are basically zero 4* characters that do anything for me at all. There is no downside in turning them all into 5*, just on the off chance that they become useful when they're lvl600+ (remember, they'll get the boost).

Most characters at that kind of level are usable when boosted. And...if they're not, what exactly did I lose? It isn't like they're doing anything for me now.

Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "you'll lose 12 covers of a new 5★ if they ever become feeders." That answer sucks, if you ask me, but it's currently the answer. I would have expected 6, but no, it's 12. Ascended characters will not get retroactive rewards.

Eh. Theoretical future rewards mean absolutely nothing to me -- I can't use them to play the game today. Also, I'm about to get like 200 new 5* and they'll spit out a token every 4 covers. I'm not worried about missing out on a Latest guy ever again.

Technically it's a pull every eight covers (since the exchange rate is 4:1, and 5*s give you a pull ever 2 levels,) but yeah, that makes sense. My counter attitude is "I'm not sure I'm going to use this 5★ so losing out on those theoretical rewards might really hurt down the line." It's a different attitude toward play. Honestly, as people go over above, it may well be better to re-roster the 4★ again and level that for rewards than to level up the (4) 5★, at least assuming you're looking for the rewards and not looking to level a (4) 5★ you don't use much, and TBH that is what I will probably do.

Right, it's just a different attitude, and I recognize that I'm in a small minority among the top players.

But...and here's the thing...despite actively trying to build my roster in the least optimal way (per conventional wisdom), what I do isn't actually that much less optimal than what everybody else does, and in some ways it's more optimal.