Upcoming Rebalances - Kate Bishop, Jubilee, Magik (Phoenix 5)

Blackstone

That's fair

jp1

@pepitedechocolat said:

@jp1 said:

@pepitedechocolat said:

@jp1 said:
Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it.

I dunno how you can consider changes to Magik a nerf. If you are speaking about the 3.7% reduction to match damage I think you overplaying that by a lot... or trolling and I fell for it

(considering your take on chasm nerf actually I think you are trolling, but well...)

I’m not trolling. Believe it or not, some people like to have characters who feel powerful and get to keep them. Also, whatever reduction in Magik’s match damage, it was the one thing she had going for her.

Imho the main appeal of this passive is you can buff it and either get double damage on strike tiles or benefit of buffs. The actual figure is tiny. On the other hand, getting black damage buff and 2 starting demons is a big buff (except against mthor/chasm ofc). So dunno, having played her both before and after for me she feels much stronger and more reliable now.

Maybe I need to change my tactic with her a little. I still went in brute force mode and she felt worse to me. I’ll give her another shot.

pepitedechocolat

@jp1 said:

@pepitedechocolat said:

@jp1 said:

@pepitedechocolat said:

@jp1 said:
Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it.

I dunno how you can consider changes to Magik a nerf. If you are speaking about the 3.7% reduction to match damage I think you overplaying that by a lot... or trolling and I fell for it

(considering your take on chasm nerf actually I think you are trolling, but well...)

I’m not trolling. Believe it or not, some people like to have characters who feel powerful and get to keep them. Also, whatever reduction in Magik’s match damage, it was the one thing she had going for her.

Imho the main appeal of this passive is you can buff it and either get double damage on strike tiles or benefit of buffs. The actual figure is tiny. On the other hand, getting black damage buff and 2 starting demons is a big buff (except against mthor/chasm ofc). So dunno, having played her both before and after for me she feels much stronger and more reliable now.

Maybe I need to change my tactic with her a little. I still went in brute force mode and she felt worse to me. I’ll give her another shot.

Please remember when testing her that she is nerfing herself in case of mirror match, due to purple. with the rebalance I have come accross qui a few Magik these days

Gymp28

@Bad said:
Magik rebalance is nice, trying to make it worth her > @jp1 said:
Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it.

Erm, it’s only a 5% ‘nerf’, which is almost imperceptible. Plus if you’re using her for the match damage bonus you’re probably pairing her with a booster, which makes this change even less noticeable.
I would certainly argue that if you’re going to reduce the bonus damage by only 5% why bother reducing it at all? But here is where we find ourselves…
The buff to the demons is certainly much appreciated and having done some brief testing appears to means she’s significantly more punchy. Thanks BCS!!

Gymp28

Exactly @Blackstone, this isn’t a Chasm thread (despite him being briefly mentioned as an afterthought due to their minor boob with the data push).
There’ll be time for plenty of Chasm ranting once they finally release the actual nerf…
I’m want to know how people are now finding M5gick post-buff!

Scofie

I have split out the conversation on compensation for the Chasm nerf into a new thread. Discussion of the mechanics of the Chasm nerf is still technically on topic here, so I have weeded as best as I could!

fight4thedream

@Gymp28 said:
Exactly @Blackstone, this isn’t a Chasm thread (despite him being briefly mentioned as an afterthought due to their minor boob with the data push).
There’ll be time for plenty of Chasm ranting once they finally release the actual nerf…
I’m want to know how people are now finding M5gick post-buff!

Having run some tests with her in both the boss event and in Simulator, she definitely has significantly stronger damage output overall now.

With that said, if you were running her in berserker mode (i.e. tanking colors for the extra damage boost on matches) then the 5% loss does hurt a bit. However, the extra demon tile and damage boost to other abilities should compensate for that in most non-Chasm fights. Unfortunately, the majority of my PvP battles are Chasm fights and on that point things are not so pretty.

Against weaker Chasm teams she does ok but against Chasm teams of equal strength she does rather poorly. Obviously her demon tiles are a no-go since he denies start of fight abilities and drains strongest color. If you try to go the berserker route, so far it's been a roughly 1/4 win rate (although that includes different test team compositions). With no defensive options, she gets overwhelmed pretty quickly by his match damage and passive damage.

You may be able to get one or two abilities off against him, but it's rarely enough. I have tried a variety of combinations and nothing really comes close enough to bridging the gap between the raw offensive power of Chasm/iHulk and its insufferable AP drain.

The one team that I have found you can run somewhat successfully is Apoc/Kang/Magik but the overall damage incurred is probably not worth it. After basically trying to force the issue, I have come to the realization that she simply isn't able to deal with Chasm/iHulk in a manner that I find satisfactory.

With that said, she is fun in most other fights. I prefer running her Berserker mode, so the focus is maximizing damage out put from her red passive.

Recommended teams:

1. Apoc/Magik/50% Thor: Really fun team. Once you get Apoc yellow out, focus on collecting black, red and purple.
2. Magik50%Thor/Wong: Same concept as above. Arguably even better.
3. Magik/Wanda/Wong: Consistent damage output with some defensive teeth. If you are looking to save HP, put up Wong's shields. If you are looking for quick damage, put down Wong's strikes.

Against smaller Chasm/iHulk teams
4. Apoc/Elektro/Magik: Elektro should shield your team from most, if not all, of iHulk AoE and generate the yellow for Apoc damage boost.

Have dabbled a bit with her Phoenix Force teammates but not enough to comment on their effectiveness yet.

One final thought: If Chasm and iHulk had the "Supernatural" tag, it would be a big step to her surviving those fights. I think an argument can be made for both so maybe I'll ask during the next dev Q&A.

dianetics

She is really bad to pair with Apoc. They fight for red and they both put repeaters on the board. Since they both put repeaters out the board starts to fill out quickly.
I do like her with Wanda though so your, Magic Wong wanda is a cool team it’s useful and the characters play off each other good call there.

The damage increase is nice, but as far as I can tell she is only coming around when boosted. She still feels clunky and slow to ramp up. Once she gets going to damage is great but I prefer more reliable dps characters.

fight4thedream

We will have to agree to disagree on Apoc as a partner. With the team I recommended, he boosts her extra match damage so I am getting a nice hit of about 20k damage each time I match red, black, purple, (as well as blue and TUs). With Thor's board shake, it can occasionally ramp up to 40-80k
from cascades. Under most circumstances, I favor using the red and black for Apocalypse.

But overall I think Wong is the better partner, especially if you have 3* Kamar-Taj. With enough tiles on the board, his red is crazy strong and his strike tiles are no joke. He definitely has the more versatile kit and also boosts Magik damage by 30%.

dianetics

I’m running her with emma and okoye so she’s getting double boosted. That team seems to have less issues for me. Obviously your mileage may vary.
I would rather create a fresh team so I can have another saved team. I already use Apoc with Wanda and Crystal and that team has no board issues.
Still magik appears to only be up to bat when she is boosted for me.
Even after rebalancing she is below Wong and Crystal on usage rates when not boosted.

fight4thedream

It really depends on what kind of roster build you have and your preferred playstyle.

A big Apoc and low level Magik won't work for my type of playstyle since he will tank black and red. On the other hand, a big Magik tanks too much so running her with Okoye feels too slow and clunky for my taste. With Wong, you want her just high enough that she tanks red and blue if you want to go the berserker route while if you prefer a more strategic approach then it's probably better to have Wong carry some of the tanking load.

She is definitely a character where the player has to fine-tune her to their own roster strengths (including supports) in order to find what works best for them.

MrDupaTM

She is definitely a character where the player has to fine-tune her to their own roster strengths (including supports) in order to find what works best for them.

So she’s just not good, noted.

ThisisClemFandango

5 Emma 5 magik and 5 switch, pretty awesome

Bad

After playing her a bit, I opine the same.
The only thing that could make her a reliable character would be 1 turn repeaters.
She needs a lot of support around her for to make her powers useful.
The perma damage is irrelevant.
Her active powers dealing AoE are pretty irrelevant if not having a lot of AP and character boosting.
And her demons, 2 turns and without fortifying, are counterintuitive. You need to match them for to deal " the big nuke" and to have red AP for creating more of them. But each time matched, they reset to long 2 unfortified turns, and more importantly, the red runs out: she can't create red tiles if there aren't, so you have 2 options, matching red or not. If matching it, potentially you would run out of red and the power won't do nothing because she can't create 2 repeaters if there is no red.
If not, there will be a lot less damage and each 2 turns: imposible to rely on it.
Neither of the 2 options will make it on a long battle, making the power ineffective.
And they nerfed a bit her matching passive.
I have her baby champed and of course not interested on leveling up her at all.

jp1

I think Magik is quite good boosted. I haven’t had a chance to reevaluate her without god mode. At least in my roster she works really well with Emma and M’Baku against goons. I slotted in a couple different alternatives for M’Baku and nothing I found was quite the same.

Of course without being boosted or in PVP this team is probably not great.

Tiger_Wong

Magik PH5 w/chimichanga support lvl 4
Jean Grey (Phoenix) w/hellfire club support lvl3
Cyclops PH5 w/Krakoa support lvl3

Get Magik at half life or lower. Hellfire club support will decrease match and ability damage for those early turns so Magik isn’t hit as hard.

After she’s hit the first time, cyclops will fire either Phoenix Blast (decent damage, more repeaters on the field) or Disarming Gaze (turn 5/6/7 tiles red and a 2-turn stun) AND Jean Grey will fire either Psychic Rapport (convert 5/6:7 tiles to red) or Psychic Flames (make 3/4 beefy strikes).

After those powers fire, everything changes and you will be in a good position to dominate. Having 2 demon repeaters instead of 1 on turn 1 AND them being stronger is actually pretty significant with the above supports and on those characters. But just as significant as that buff is, the nerf to her red passive is just as noticeable.

Also, it’s quite easy to create 2 more demon tiles on alternating turns to have them go off on every turn. It costs 7 black AP.

pepitedechocolat

@Bad match black not red for the damage. Just saying

dianetics

@Tiger_Wong said:
Magik PH5 w/chimichanga support lvl 4
Jean Grey (Phoenix) w/hellfire club support lvl3
Cyclops PH5 w/Krakoa support lvl3

Get Magik at half life or lower. Hellfire club support will decrease match and ability damage for those early turns so Magik isn’t hit as hard.

After she’s hit the first time, cyclops will fire either Phoenix Blast (decent damage, more repeaters on the field) or Disarming Gaze (turn 5/6/7 tiles red and a 2-turn stun) AND Jean Grey will fire either Psychic Rapport (convert 5/6:7 tiles to red) or Psychic Flames (make 3/4 beefy strikes).

After those powers fire, everything changes and you will be in a good position to dominate. Having 2 demon repeaters instead of 1 on turn 1 AND them being stronger is actually pretty significant with the above supports and on those characters. But just as significant as that buff is, the nerf to her red passive is just as noticeable.

Also, it’s quite easy to create 2 more demon tiles on alternating turns to have them go off on every turn. It costs 7 black AP.

This is a ton of work to get an ok result. If it takes 10 conditions to make a character work, then it is a bad character

Tiger_Wong

What a stupid over-generalization to make.

entrailbucket

I used Magik all through the current PvE sub and she's fine. Damage on all her abilities felt like a decent 5* and the repeater gimmick was ok. I didn't have to use her with a power booster like before.

She's easily a top-half 5* now. It really, really sucks that they had to waste their one buff per month on such a new character (I have Hawkeye and Black Bolt at 550 and both are completely unusable this week at 672), but I guess people care way more about new characters.

She's fine.