@jsmjsmjsm00 said: Simulator was not diverse pre-chasm. I think you have some rose-colored glasses bias going on. Pre-Chasm simulator was all Colossus and Scarlet Witch. It was a slog to get wins. I'm not saying Chasm is better, but it is not worse on diversity either.
Strongly disagree.
Before chasm I saw a lot of diverse teams up until I got close to 2000 points, then it became a lot of collosus/wanda/apocalypse. With recent simulator it's been all chasm/hulk/she hulk almost as soon as I start.
I used to play around with a bunch of fun teams until I got to like 1800 points and then used my collosus/wanda/apocalypse against the others. These past few seasons I've barely even touched sim because it's just a slog fest of chasm.
@entrailbucket said: There's always going to be a best team, and that team is always going to be overrepresented. The problem occurs when the best team is so much better than any alternative, that it outclasses teams 100 or more levels higher.
@entrailbucket said: There's always going to be a best team, and that team is always going to be overrepresented.
The problem occurs when the best team is so much better than any alternative, that it outclasses teams 100 or more levels higher.
True. But Chasm is also relatively unique that he limits new character design. There was a big discussion about this on discord yesterday. One thing Ice said resonated with me, and I haven’t seen that be part of this or other discussions about Chasm as much.
Quoting Ice:
Chasm being OP is one thing. Still want to get him fixed anyway. But the fact that he's limiting design space to the point where whole swaths of possible character designs aren't viable because he exists is just bad for the game and needs work.
I’m glad that it was recognized by the Devs as one of the arguments why Chasm needs a nerf.
That sounds to me that his broken initial collective stun is saying goodbye. At last.
@Zarqa said: @entrailbucket said: There's always going to be a best team, and that team is always going to be overrepresented. The problem occurs when the best team is so much better than any alternative, that it outclasses teams 100 or more levels higher. True. But Chasm is also relatively unique that he limits new character design. There was a big discussion about this on discord yesterday. One thing Ice said resonated with me, and I haven’t seen that be part of this or other discussions about Chasm as much. Quoting Ice: Chasm being OP is one thing. Still want to get him fixed anyway. But the fact that he's limiting design space to the point where whole swaths of possible character designs aren't viable because he exists is just bad for the game and needs work. I’m glad that it was recognized by the Devs as one of the arguments why Chasm needs a nerf.
@Zarqa said:
@entrailbucket wins again
@Bad said: That sounds to me that his broken initial collective stun is saying goodbye. At last.
Actually, his comment was made in relation to Chasm’s AP drain and that it prevents any active abilities to thrive. Both upcoming 5 star and the next have straightforward active abilities apparently, and Chasm just laughs at that
@Zarqa said: Actually, his comment was made in relation to Chasm’s AP drain and that it prevents any active abilities to thrive. Both upcoming 5 star and the next have straightforward active abilities apparently, and Chasm just laughs that
Actually, his comment was made in relation to Chasm’s AP drain and that it prevents any active abilities to thrive. Both upcoming 5 star and the next have straightforward active abilities apparently, and Chasm just laughs that
What I said when Wong was released, and when magik was released: too bad that chasm nerfs their initial help. Also kitty and brb evaporated from pvp from one day to another. It was a brilliant idea to design a so broken skill and it always give him one turn to crush enemies and to advance with the voids.
Chasm ))))))
@KGB said: @entrailbucket said: Yeah, I will never understand the "no nerfs ever" attitude that a whole bunch of MPQ players seem to have. Every competitive game nerfs. Every. Single. One. I think a lot of this stems from Demi who went WAY over board on every balancing Nerf they ever did. If they had just made minor adjustments until the character was in line, players wouldn't dread Nerfs so much. Demi truly put the NERF in Nerf. KGB
@KGB said:
@entrailbucket said: Yeah, I will never understand the "no nerfs ever" attitude that a whole bunch of MPQ players seem to have. Every competitive game nerfs. Every. Single. One.
I think a lot of this stems from Demi who went WAY over board on every balancing Nerf they ever did. If they had just made minor adjustments until the character was in line, players wouldn't dread Nerfs so much. Demi truly put the NERF in Nerf.
KGB
This.
Also, just because every other game does it doesn’t really mean it’s something you have to agree with, right? It’s actually one of my least favorite aspects of modern gaming. Grinding out for hours to get some rare drop and then it’s magically deemed “OP” and nerfed into complete uselessness. It’s a manipulation tactic. Do you honestly believe another character won’t come along worthy of the town cries about yet another nerf? It won’t be until the cash flow slows down on them that the problem gets addressed. It’s strange isn’t it?
I’m not saying MPQ is particularly egregious with it. I’m just saying it is a common tactic in sales (a field I am in at an upper level where these discussions happen behind closed doors.) it’s just sad it has to trickle down into video games so heavily.
There are arguments to be made from both sides and both have valid points. However I’m not sure throwing away my years of effort and financial commitments to the game to cheat in a sandbox is the best course of action. A game doesn’t have to be single player for you to not be hyper focused on playing it competitively. There are a lot of ways to enjoy interacting with your clan mates and the game without cheating and ruining the whole experience.
Anyway, it’s all a bit of a tangent anyway. BCS will do what is necessary to keep the game financially viable and I’m thankful for that. However, It seems like the tide is leaning further towards the old days than when they initially took over and I’m not convinced that’s a good thing for the player base.
@pepitedechocolat said: @jp1 said: Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it. I dunno how you can consider changes to Magik a nerf. If you are speaking about the 3.7% reduction to match damage I think you overplaying that by a lot... or trolling and I fell for it (considering your take on chasm nerf actually I think you are trolling, but well...)
@pepitedechocolat said:
@jp1 said: Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it.
I dunno how you can consider changes to Magik a nerf. If you are speaking about the 3.7% reduction to match damage I think you overplaying that by a lot... or trolling and I fell for it
(considering your take on chasm nerf actually I think you are trolling, but well...)
I’m not trolling. Believe it or not, some people like to have characters who feel powerful and get to keep them. Also, whatever reduction in Magik’s match damage, it was the one thing she had going for her.
The best part of magik was the match damage bonus based on the current meta. I would rather have them move all the power budget to her red passive and keep her other two abilities as trash. Just my opinion
If the were wanting to fix everything then black ability needs something like 5ice green on destruction.
One thing that is truly bad for the game is to no really play pvp like before. I can play at the time and hours left I wanted but when reaching 500 points it's better to stop because it will be hard to find a better queue. The players who are interested will play for battles, then lock off with a chahulk team. It's understandable, why are you gonna take effort for to knock on into a wall of floating chahulk teams? It's not worth the health pack usage, or if not just mirror match and boring yourself battle after battle. The experience is worse than ever, and it just happens always no matter the characters buffed or the rewards. And this happens just because of no taking actions before, I'm not sure at all if after chasm nerf pvp will be like before. But in a game like this one having a broken character truly destroys the experience. Diversity destroyed, habits to play pvp changed, and boring battles. 3 in one.
@Bad said: One thing that is truly bad for the game is to no really play pvp like before. I can play at the time and hours left I wanted but when reaching 500 points it's better to stop because it will be hard to find a better queue. The players who are interested will play for battles, then lock off with a chahulk team. It's understandable, why are you gonna take effort for to knock on into a wall of floating chahulk teams? It's not worth the health pack usage, or if not just mirror match and boring yourself battle after battle. The experience is worse than ever, and it just happens always no matter the characters buffed or the rewards. And this happens just because of no taking actions before, I'm not sure at all if after chasm nerf pvp will be like before. But in a game like this one having a broken character truly destroys the experience. Diversity destroyed, habits to play pvp changed, and boring battles. 3 in one.
I don’t dispute this. I’m just imagining a different solution. Themed PVP was pretty great to address this issue for instance.
@Bowgentle said: @Zarqa said: @entrailbucket said: There's always going to be a best team, and that team is always going to be overrepresented. The problem occurs when the best team is so much better than any alternative, that it outclasses teams 100 or more levels higher. True. But Chasm is also relatively unique that he limits new character design. There was a big discussion about this on discord yesterday. One thing Ice said resonated with me, and I haven’t seen that be part of this or other discussions about Chasm as much. Quoting Ice: Chasm being OP is one thing. Still want to get him fixed anyway. But the fact that he's limiting design space to the point where whole swaths of possible character designs aren't viable because he exists is just bad for the game and needs work. I’m glad that it was recognized by the Devs as one of the arguments why Chasm needs a nerf. @entrailbucket wins again
@Bowgentle said:
Ice basically just made the same argument I've been making for the last year or whatever. I wonder if I can get a consulting fee out of this?
@jp1 said: @KGB said: @entrailbucket said: Yeah, I will never understand the "no nerfs ever" attitude that a whole bunch of MPQ players seem to have. Every competitive game nerfs. Every. Single. One. I think a lot of this stems from Demi who went WAY over board on every balancing Nerf they ever did. If they had just made minor adjustments until the character was in line, players wouldn't dread Nerfs so much. Demi truly put the NERF in Nerf. KGB This. Also, just because every other game does it doesn’t really mean it’s something you have to agree with, right? It’s actually one of my least favorite aspects of modern gaming. Grinding out for hours to get some rare drop and then it’s magically deemed “OP” and nerfed into complete uselessness. It’s a manipulation tactic. Do you honestly believe another character won’t come along worthy of the town cries about yet another nerf? It won’t be until the cash flow slows down on them that the problem gets addressed. It’s strange isn’t it? I’m not saying MPQ is particularly egregious with it. I’m just saying it is a common tactic in sales (a field I am in at an upper level where these discussions happen behind closed doors.) it’s just sad it has to trickle down into video games so heavily.
@jp1 said:
Anyone spending money (or tons of resources) on a single overpowered character gets exactly what they deserve when a brutal nerf shows up.
This game has made clear time and time again that they'll nerf, and nerf HARD, when the situation requires it. Players spent tons of money on Gambit and got burned. After Gambit, how can anyone think going all in is still a good idea? How are players still surprised when this happens?
Players are not in control of the game. The devs make the rules, and the devs can change anybody anytime they want. You cannot "outsmart" the game in the long term, because you are not in charge. I don't understand why some players refuse to learn this lesson, after 10 years. It's Charlie Brown with the football. The first few times it's Lucy's fault, but after that...
@entrailbucket said: @Bowgentle said: @Zarqa said: @entrailbucket said: There's always going to be a best team, and that team is always going to be overrepresented. The problem occurs when the best team is so much better than any alternative, that it outclasses teams 100 or more levels higher. True. But Chasm is also relatively unique that he limits new character design. There was a big discussion about this on discord yesterday. One thing Ice said resonated with me, and I haven’t seen that be part of this or other discussions about Chasm as much. Quoting Ice: Chasm being OP is one thing. Still want to get him fixed anyway. But the fact that he's limiting design space to the point where whole swaths of possible character designs aren't viable because he exists is just bad for the game and needs work. I’m glad that it was recognized by the Devs as one of the arguments why Chasm needs a nerf. @entrailbucket wins again Ice basically just made the same argument I've been making for the last year or whatever. I wonder if I can get a consulting fee out of this?
@entrailbucket said:
250 ISO coming your way.
4* Deadpool Daily node... Ran Kate with Mockingbird...
Enemy team had a big cascade due to chulk CD going off...
Chulk used his heal, but the cascade led to proccing Mockingbird yellow multiple times...
Which gave me Kate autofiring three powers in a row...
She one shot the entire enemy team one after another...
Doesn't mean anything outside of this node for me, but it was fun to watch.
@jp1 said: @pepitedechocolat said: @jp1 said: Just wanted to post separately that while the KB buff is nice (albeit unnecessary) the nerf to an already mediocre Magik is crazy. She was kind of fun to use as a brawler, and that’s the one thing you decided to take from her? I just don’t get it. I dunno how you can consider changes to Magik a nerf. If you are speaking about the 3.7% reduction to match damage I think you overplaying that by a lot... or trolling and I fell for it (considering your take on chasm nerf actually I think you are trolling, but well...) I’m not trolling. Believe it or not, some people like to have characters who feel powerful and get to keep them. Also, whatever reduction in Magik’s match damage, it was the one thing she had going for her.
Imho the main appeal of this passive is you can buff it and either get double damage on strike tiles or benefit of buffs. The actual figure is tiny. On the other hand, getting black damage buff and 2 starting demons is a big buff (except against mthor/chasm ofc). So dunno, having played her both before and after for me she feels much stronger and more reliable now.
@Bad said: I can play at the time and hours left I wanted but when reaching 500 points it's better to stop because it will be hard to find a better queue. The players who are interested will play for battles, then lock off with a chahulk team.
This is really insightful and my experience as well.
Below 700. I can generally skip around and avoid 550 whales, and ihulk/chasm combos. Mostly just boost week chars at a roster comparable to mine.
From 700-1200, I'll be matched with 550 rosters and or ihulk/chasm combos. For me to advance, I need to to build my ques or play against end game level rosters.
beyond 1200. I'll have unlimited matches that are purely based on who's unshielded etc...
Its definitely true that Wanda/Colossus was just as common and used in the exact same fashion as chasm/ihulk, and previous dominant metas.
The major difference is that the other metas felt fun to play and matches would definitely end. Chasm/hulk specifically feels slow and unfun. And most importantly, matches could go on indefinitely.
Its worth reminding people. We don't have 3* falcon pvp events and 3* spidey was explicitly nerfed to prevent stale matches that the AI could stall to infinity.
Unnecessarily snarky post deleted along with a good and sensible reply.