@entrailbucket said:@Blackstone Rereading what you wrote...I think you think I'm a different kind of player? I'd never ridicule someone for a low score, or for not knowing what to do, and I like helping new players too. I often put up pretty low scores myself (if I need to keep you at 900 then I have to stay lower than that). It sounds like the toxicity you're talking about is the sort of political stuff that I also can't stand. I also blocked everyone outside my alliance on Line, and don't ever send or respond to threats or anything like that.
@entrailbucket said:@Blackstone Rereading what you wrote...I think you think I'm a different kind of player? I'd never ridicule someone for a low score, or for not knowing what to do, and I like helping new players too. I often put up pretty low scores myself (if I need to keep you at 900 then I have to stay lower than that).
It sounds like the toxicity you're talking about is the sort of political stuff that I also can't stand. I also blocked everyone outside my alliance on Line, and don't ever send or respond to threats or anything like that.
I reread what we both wrote then read more of the thread more closely.
I absolutely misread/misunderstood your comment that I was responding to.
I inserted a negative tone where there was none and just ranted ignorantly about it.
I didn't intend to do that and can only say I was in a bad mood when I opened the forum to get my mind off things and my brain applied a negative tone where it shouldn't have.
I deleted the comment and I apologize for the unfair characterization.
@Blackstone said: @entrailbucket said:@Blackstone Rereading what you wrote...I think you think I'm a different kind of player? I'd never ridicule someone for a low score, or for not knowing what to do, and I like helping new players too. I often put up pretty low scores myself (if I need to keep you at 900 then I have to stay lower than that). It sounds like the toxicity you're talking about is the sort of political stuff that I also can't stand. I also blocked everyone outside my alliance on Line, and don't ever send or respond to threats or anything like that. I reread what we both wrote then read more of the thread more closely. I absolutely misread/misunderstood your comment that I was responding to. I inserted a negative tone where there was none and just ranted ignorantly about it. I didn't intend to do that and can only say I was in a bad mood when I opened the forum to get my mind off things and my brain applied a negative tone where it shouldn't have. I deleted the comment and I apologize for the unfair characterization.
@Blackstone said:
No worries at all, I think we're (roughly) on the same side here!
@TheXMan said: @entrailbucket said: I don't go around screaming at people and fighting them in real life, no...this is a competitive game, though. In PvP, you literally cannot play the game without attacking people and taking their points away. How can you engage in PvP at all and pretend that you're not hurting other players? Why not lean into it instead of trying to rationalize it away and pretend like you're a good, friendly person? This is make-believe, no one is actually getting hurt here. It's a silly game. So yeah, 550 players are at the top of the MPQ food chain, and I expect them to act like it. If you're my equal, and I start a fight with you, I expect you to fight back -- not run away and hide. You can gain points in pvp without taking points...those are called shields. I understand your position but I think you are in the vast minority. I think there is much more competition in pve than pvp because the rewards are better. And I also think this game would no longer be around without Line.
@TheXMan said:
@entrailbucket said: I don't go around screaming at people and fighting them in real life, no...this is a competitive game, though. In PvP, you literally cannot play the game without attacking people and taking their points away. How can you engage in PvP at all and pretend that you're not hurting other players? Why not lean into it instead of trying to rationalize it away and pretend like you're a good, friendly person? This is make-believe, no one is actually getting hurt here. It's a silly game. So yeah, 550 players are at the top of the MPQ food chain, and I expect them to act like it. If you're my equal, and I start a fight with you, I expect you to fight back -- not run away and hide.
@entrailbucket said: I don't go around screaming at people and fighting them in real life, no...this is a competitive game, though. In PvP, you literally cannot play the game without attacking people and taking their points away. How can you engage in PvP at all and pretend that you're not hurting other players? Why not lean into it instead of trying to rationalize it away and pretend like you're a good, friendly person? This is make-believe, no one is actually getting hurt here. It's a silly game.
So yeah, 550 players are at the top of the MPQ food chain, and I expect them to act like it. If you're my equal, and I start a fight with you, I expect you to fight back -- not run away and hide.
You can gain points in pvp without taking points...those are called shields. I understand your position but I think you are in the vast minority. I think there is much more competition in pve than pvp because the rewards are better. And I also think this game would no longer be around without Line.
So, you never attack anyone unless they're shielded? You shield-check every name you attack, from 0 to 5000 or whatever?
And... if any player who's in any room with you passes you for top 5 (or top 10, or top 25), you always just let them have those rewards? You'd never do an extra hop to pass over someone who shares a room with you, because you're not competitive, especially with "friendlies?"
Of course I hit people on my initial climb but not people in the room without asking. You said you literally cannot play the game without attacking and taking points. I don't want to argue. I was just pointing out I think you are in the minority and I don't think most people want to play pvp like you do...it isn't worth the effort.
So then, on your "initial climb," you do indeed take points away from players. Unless you shield check every single person you attack, you can't play the game without taking points away from real people.
Anyway, that was exactly my point -- I am in the minority. The top end players today play a PvP game that's mostly boring, and it's mostly boring because they CHOOSE to play in a way that's mostly boring, either because they're not aware of an alternative or they prefer it to be boring.
I think it's sad. Truly competitive, cutthroat, spiteful MPQ PvP is one of the most fun games I've ever played, and I've played a LOT of games.
I've been hit many times by Xman. He regularly takes points from others.
I never used Line to play pvp and I never will. Probably for that reason I early noticed the change in pvp dropping points because of chasm. I used to give some minutes to my queues before attacking when I was on 900 points, a lot more than many people did with me. However it's true that pvp is funnier this way, you never will be T1 because anyone can and will hit you. After chasm nerf, if pvp becomes easier to play again perhaps I will get 1200 again but it's unlikely because I'm used to play pvp to minimal right now.
We have no idea what the proposed changes to MMR are going to be so maybe they will find a way to make PvP competitive again or cut out the collusion, although I am not sure that is the reason for messing around with MMR itself.
What is the history of the different slices becoming how they did? I used to play in Slice 2 years back but not to a high enough level where I mattered (possibly I was seal clubbed a few times, who knows) but how did Slice 2 end up like it did? Was this a conscious thing or did it just evolve that way?
Alliances split into different slices, some wanted to cooperate, others... Not so much.
@entrailbucket said: I think it's sad. Truly competitive, cutthroat, spiteful MPQ PvP is one of the most fun games I've ever played, and I've played a LOT of games.
I don't enjoy it EVERY PvP. Sometimes, it's just too time-consuming. I just want to hit 1200 and shield out.
That being said, I can honestly say that some of the most fun I've had over the years was trading 50+ matches at a clip with a single opponent. We would inevitably end up right where we both started, but the bragging rights of "your team wiped twice, mine only wiped once" was kinda fun.
Did I say I do not? EB said you literally cannot play pvp without taking points and I was just pointing out you can using shields. I agree it would be very hard starting from 0 but he was talking about losing 200 points so that is likely high enough that you can gain off people that are shielded. I think you might have been in the slice room for awhile so I hope I didn't hit you then.
You guys are having the most polite disagreement I have ever seen and I'm British. I mean we apologise to you when you push in front of us in a queue but this is even cuter.
@TheXMan said: I've been hit many times by Xman. He regularly takes points from others. Did I say I do not? EB said you literally cannot play pvp without taking points and I was just pointing out you can using shields. I agree it would be very hard starting from 0 but he was talking about losing 200 points so that is likely high enough that you can gain off people that are shielded. I think you might have been in the slice room for awhile so I hope I didn't hit you then.
Ok, so give it a try. Play an entire event without taking a single point from anyone, provide video documentation, and I'll agree that it's possible.
@Borstock said: @entrailbucket said: I think it's sad. Truly competitive, cutthroat, spiteful MPQ PvP is one of the most fun games I've ever played, and I've played a LOT of games. I don't enjoy it EVERY PvP. Sometimes, it's just too time-consuming. I just want to hit 1200 and shield out. That being said, I can honestly say that some of the most fun I've had over the years was trading 50+ matches at a clip with a single opponent. We would inevitably end up right where we both started, but the bragging rights of "your team wiped twice, mine only wiped once" was kinda fun.
@Borstock said:
This is roughly how I play the game now. I only play the last 2 hours of every event. I try to bait people into wars, then dump and do 50 or 100 on them. If nobody wants to war me I'll climb and shield, but it makes me sad.
I want to be clear that I've got nothing against coordination, per se. Team play is really fun, and I've had a lot of fun playing as a team in the past. But "team" does not equal "2,000 players," or whatever you people have in your rooms now. 20 or 25 is about the limit.
MPQ PvP needs enemies to be fun. If 99% of the targets you see are "friendly" (and I keep quoting that because you are not actually friends with 2,000 people, you've just agreed not to attack each other...if one of them passes you on the leaderboard, you'll absolutely get angry about it and use a secret cupcake to pass them), then the game becomes horrifically boring.
@entrailbucket said: @TheXMan said: I've been hit many times by Xman. He regularly takes points from others. Did I say I do not? EB said you literally cannot play pvp without taking points and I was just pointing out you can using shields. I agree it would be very hard starting from 0 but he was talking about losing 200 points so that is likely high enough that you can gain off people that are shielded. I think you might have been in the slice room for awhile so I hope I didn't hit you then. Ok, so give it a try. Play an entire event without taking a single point from anyone, provide video documentation, and I'll agree that it's possible.
@entrailbucket said:
There's absolutely no way
I think I have fallen victim to one of the classic blunders...
@TheXMan said: @entrailbucket said: @TheXMan said: I've been hit many times by Xman. He regularly takes points from others. Did I say I do not? EB said you literally cannot play pvp without taking points and I was just pointing out you can using shields. I agree it would be very hard starting from 0 but he was talking about losing 200 points so that is likely high enough that you can gain off people that are shielded. I think you might have been in the slice room for awhile so I hope I didn't hit you then. Ok, so give it a try. Play an entire event without taking a single point from anyone, provide video documentation, and I'll agree that it's possible. I think I have fallen victim to one of the classic blunders...
Talking to me at all is about the most classic blunder there is.
Never get involved in a land war in Asia?
@Scofie said: @TheXMan said: @entrailbucket said: @TheXMan said: I've been hit many times by Xman. He regularly takes points from others. Did I say I do not? EB said you literally cannot play pvp without taking points and I was just pointing out you can using shields. I agree it would be very hard starting from 0 but he was talking about losing 200 points so that is likely high enough that you can gain off people that are shielded. I think you might have been in the slice room for awhile so I hope I didn't hit you then. Ok, so give it a try. Play an entire event without taking a single point from anyone, provide video documentation, and I'll agree that it's possible. I think I have fallen victim to one of the classic blunders... Never get involved in a land war in Asia?
@Scofie said:
Bingo