New VIP Rewards Structure

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@mani82 said:
Why not ask the devs about the percentage of people with 5* rosters in dev question forum ?and what on the world is ‘tapping’in mpq pls enlighten me

PVE nodes didn't used to go down to zero points, the lowest they would go down to is 1 point. So at the end of each sub the people who care about pve placement would hit the trivial node over and over and over for 1 point until the sub closed. If you cared about placement, basically you had to keep playing until the very end.

It's much, much worse than that.

You're right about the first thing, PvE nodes used to go down to a minimum of 1 point. What players would do was open the sub normally, then choose a trivial node, take it down to 1 point, and proceed to hit that one node thousands of times.

Normally grinding a node early puts you behind -- optimal play means waiting for it to regenerate as many points as possible. But players were hitting the node thousands of times over the 24hrs it was open, meaning that if you wanted to win a sub, you'd need to "tap" that node more times than they did.

It started off with just a few players willing to spend obscene amounts of time doing this to win, but by the end, if you wanted t25 you were committing to 12+ hours of continuous hits on a 1 point node. Some players were tapping the trivial node for nearly 24 straight hours.

So many 3* players were affected the Devs just had to act.

They actually left it like that for quite a while. Once the 24/7 grinders showed up, we started making a case that somebody would end up dying while they played MPQ, then after a few months of that they decided to change it. It was not a high priority.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@mani82 said:
Why not ask the devs about the percentage of people with 5* rosters in dev question forum ?and what on the world is ‘tapping’in mpq pls enlighten me

PVE nodes didn't used to go down to zero points, the lowest they would go down to is 1 point. So at the end of each sub the people who care about pve placement would hit the trivial node over and over and over for 1 point until the sub closed. If you cared about placement, basically you had to keep playing until the very end.

It's much, much worse than that.

You're right about the first thing, PvE nodes used to go down to a minimum of 1 point. What players would do was open the sub normally, then choose a trivial node, take it down to 1 point, and proceed to hit that one node thousands of times.

Normally grinding a node early puts you behind -- optimal play means waiting for it to regenerate as many points as possible. But players were hitting the node thousands of times over the 24hrs it was open, meaning that if you wanted to win a sub, you'd need to "tap" that node more times than they did.

It started off with just a few players willing to spend obscene amounts of time doing this to win, but by the end, if you wanted t25 you were committing to 12+ hours of continuous hits on a 1 point node. Some players were tapping the trivial node for nearly 24 straight hours.

So many 3* players were affected the Devs just had to act.

They actually left it like that for quite a while. Once the 24/7 grinders showed up, we started making a case that somebody would end up dying while they played MPQ, then after a few months of that they decided to change it. It was not a high priority.

It was 2017. People were going to die...but it wasn't a high priority.

Meanwhile, the festering pile of MPQ corpses were spilling out into the streets, their fingers rubbed to the bone from all the frantic phone pressing. It wasn't quite clear what had caused this terrible madness. Was it a hostile fungal infection? Some sort of T virus? These players were being driven by an all consuming urge for POINTS.

The Devs looked up from designing their latest $75 costume bundle and noticed the escalating crisis and thought "Hmm...should we add an extra Heroic to this?". But things were becoming desperate. Some heroic players knew they had to act. Every few days they frantically sent the distress signals to the Devs. "Flugelcracker348 just added 3 extra points to the leaderboard and now one of us is in second place! Devs you have to stop this madness!! He can't hold out much longer...he is down to his last Twinkie and hasn't slept in over 135 hours. Won't somebody think of the placement?!?!?!"

Still there was silence. Maybe because they had posted the distress signals on the Forum. It was a rookie mistake.

The points went upwards but so did the death toll.

The players sent further dire warnings. The placements were under siege. "My god! We've got a 4* Essential tapper inside the perimeter! We can't hold him!! We're going down...to 3rd place!! Somebody call The PRESIDENT!"

But as with all tales of heroic deeds, good triumphed over evil. The plague was stopped. Somebody at the Devs base looked at the server and noticed that the "Allow crazy points" box was accidentally checked.

The crisis was over but would the MPQ ever be the same? Actually yes. Everything was fine. Nobody will know how many life's were saved and we don't now speak of the lost ones. Somewhere out there the heroes of those dark days still roam the leaderboards keeping them safe for the 0.05%. Some say they watch ever vigilantly in case anything should once more displace the righteous from the top 5..but that is a tale for another time.

entrailbucket

So now you agree with me that champion 5* players are a very small, very whiny minority, and the developers don't (and shouldn't) care about our problems?

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:
So now you agree with me that champion 5* players are a very small, very whiny minority, and the developers don't (and shouldn't) care about our problems?

There used to thousands of them until they died of tapping. If the Developers had acted sooner...well.

The top 0.05% are still there, heroes till the end, the rest of us have moved on and never took any notice/understood/were involved in that anyway. I think our ranks have grown.

I am not sure which tribe you belong to...your talk of warning of the large death toll makes me suspicious you are not of my tribe and those of us who stood powerless/not caring in the slightest had to crawl out of the primordial slime we came from and try to seek the light.

The Devs say they listen to all types of players, consider the different tiers concerns and want to hear all of our feedback. I look towards them for guidance until the heroes return again to save us from hammering or whatever it is that week that deprived them of their usual LT.

Amen.

BoyWonder1914

@entrailbucket said:
So now you agree with me that champion 5* players are a very small, very whiny minority, and the developers don't (and shouldn't) care about our problems?

This is a sad hill to fight so fiercely, and die on. What exactly is it to you how many other 5-star players there are, to the point you have the audacity to tell someone that their personal experience playing the game is a lie? Are your children in danger if the number is higher than YOU thought?

entrailbucket

@BoyWonder1914 said:

@entrailbucket said:
So now you agree with me that champion 5* players are a very small, very whiny minority, and the developers don't (and shouldn't) care about our problems?

This is a sad hill to fight so fiercely, and die on. What exactly is it to you how many other 5-star players there are, to the point you have the audacity to tell someone that their personal experience playing the game is a lie? Are your children in danger if the number is higher than YOU thought?

This is an internet forum for a superhero toilet game, nobody's children are in danger. Nobody is dying on hills. I could just give up, but where's the fun in that? The internet was invented for stupid arguments like this. This all started because somebody said "VIP isn't relevant to champion 5* players" and I said "of course it isn't -- why would they design something for such a small minority?"

Your personal experience (and mine) is actually a lie -- the game is specifically designed to create that illusion. Every MPQ player I've ever talked to, no matter their roster level, feels like they're chasing a huge group that's way ahead of them. I've talked to plenty of 550 players who think they're "small rosters" and are barely in the top 20% of the game.

The game is set up so that you mostly see and interact with your peers and those ahead of you, because they need to keep you chasing. It's not some grand conspiracy -- if you stopped to look down at the players behind you, you would be less motivated to play (and spend).

You guys are multimillionaires telling a billionaire that you're actually lower-class, and it's hilarious. It's not the first time, or the tenth, or the twentieth, that I've had this conversation. Everyone, at every roster level, thinks they're lower-class, and finding out otherwise breaks their brains.

BoyWonder1914

@entrailbucket said:

@BoyWonder1914 said:

@entrailbucket said:
So now you agree with me that champion 5* players are a very small, very whiny minority, and the developers don't (and shouldn't) care about our problems?

This is a sad hill to fight so fiercely, and die on. What exactly is it to you how many other 5-star players there are, to the point you have the audacity to tell someone that their personal experience playing the game is a lie? Are your children in danger if the number is higher than YOU thought?

This is an internet forum for a superhero toilet game, nobody's children are in danger. Nobody is dying on hills. I could just give up, but where's the fun in that? The internet was invented for stupid arguments like this. This all started because somebody said "VIP isn't relevant to champion 5* players" and I said "of course it isn't -- why would they design something for such a small minority?"

Your personal experience (and mine) is actually a lie -- the game is specifically designed to create that illusion. Every MPQ player I've ever talked to, no matter their roster level, feels like they're chasing a huge group that's way ahead of them. I've talked to plenty of 550 players who think they're "small rosters" and are barely in the top 20% of the game.

The game is set up so that you mostly see and interact with your peers and those ahead of you, because they need to keep you chasing. It's not some grand conspiracy -- if you stopped to look down at the players behind you, you would be less motivated to play (and spend).

You guys are multimillionaires telling a billionaire that you're actually lower-class, and it's hilarious. It's not the first time, or the tenth, or the twentieth, that I've had this conversation. Everyone, at every roster level, thinks they're lower-class, and finding out otherwise breaks their brains.

Its absolutely hilarious that you want to say our personal experiences are a lie, but then use YOUR personal experience as your reasoning for why "EVERYONE" feels this way, and we're all just talking out of our butts about having a different experience. I gave you a literal example of looking at the players "behind me" in my PVE experience, which hasn't changed with The Hunt. I took a long break from the game, makes sense that the same people I'm competing with in the same clearance levels have developed their rosters further and 5-star rosters are a more regular occurrence. That's just progression of the game.

Don't think you speak for my experience and motivations - the simple fact that I used to be a lower level roster (literally everyone was at some point) is motivation enough for me to keep playing and progressing.

entrailbucket

You're making exactly the same argument that multiple 550 players have made at me over the years. Should I accept that they're lower-class rosters because that's their "felt experience?"

BoyWonder1914

If you're taking someone who has 550s on their roster at their word for feeling like they're a "lower" roster, that's on you. No one who doesn't have 550s would feel the same way about someone who does.

How I "feel" about my experience isn't the same thing as me being able to literally look and see how many players I compete against that are at the 5-star level - stop trying to treat it as such.

entrailbucket

But that's exactly the point. Every player feels like they're lower-class, including players who are obviously in the top fraction of 1%. The actual lower class of players look at your roster and see an untouchable whale, the same way you look at the 550s.

Anyway, you looked around at a few rosters, who all play the same way you do, in the very highest clearance level, and concluded that all of them are at or above your level, so that means you're in the majority of all players?

Go play CL8 or 9. Or join CL10 at 1000. Look at the rosters of the players around you after each fight you do. Start in PvP (8,9, or 10) and compare yourself to the rosters around you after each fight. Those players all exist.

BoyWonder1914

@entrailbucket said:
But that's exactly the point. Every player feels like they're lower-class, including players who are obviously in the top fraction of 1%. The actual lower class of players look at your roster and see an untouchable whale, the same way you look at the 550s.

Anyway, you looked around at a few rosters, who all play the same way you do, in the very highest clearance level, and concluded that all of them are at or above your level, so that means you're in the majority of all players?

Go play CL8 or 9. Or join CL10 at 1000. Look at the rosters of the players around you after each fight you do. Start in PvP (8,9, or 10) and compare yourself to the rosters around you after each fight. Those players all exist.

Stop trying to speak for EVERY hypothetical player feels. I saw 5-star rosters and got excited about getting there myself, I didn't see "untouchable whales". It doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to save up CP/LLs to target 5 star characters you want, and that's strictly speaking on those who don't access the forums or have alliance mates to guide them. Becoming a 5-star player isn't impossibly difficult. I've played CL9 when I was just coming back from a break, there's plenty of 5-star rosters there too, for varying reasons. Those players all exist.

entrailbucket

Ok, I give up. You're obviously the expert here, since you've spent several minutes looking at the rosters of literally tens of players in the highest possible CL.

You're right -- in a game with probably 15-20,000 daily players, 75% of them have champion 5*.

BoyWonder1914

So instead of just being open to the possibility that maybe more people have progressed into the 5-star tier than you think, because the game has gradually made it easier to do so.....you get mad and use hyperbole and strawmans. Good day sir.

entrailbucket

Mad? "Strawmans?" Ok.

Personally I feel like you're disregarding my lived experience here, and claiming to speak for me. Every player I talk to on Line has multiple 550s, and when I looked around me in my bracket today, all I saw were other 550 players.

Obviously this means that the majority of players have 550s, and that I'm in the bottom tier of that group.

BoyWonder1914

Claiming I said "75%" is completely misrepresenting my argument for the sake of trying to strengthen your own, which is textbook strawman.

The sheer amount of 550 players you seem to imply you talk to further belies your argument in my opinion - if there's THAT many people with 550s, I don't see how hard it could be to fathom that there's more people with 450s, and maybe they don't make up as small a percentage as you're raving about. But that's just me I guess

entrailbucket

I talk to maybe 30 or 40 players and interact with even less. How many players do you interact with, in or out of game? For most of us it's a few hundred at most, out of probably tens of thousands of active players in this game. We only ever see a tiny slice of the playerbase.

There were 10,000 active alliances in the last PvE. This game has been downloaded probably 30 million times. These are huge numbers. The game is wildly successful and it's played by a ton of people.

Why is it so hard to accept that you're in the upper class, the top percentage of all players? I accept it and I enjoy it -- I've been playing forever and that effort puts me at the top of the game.

BoyWonder1914

@entrailbucket said:
I talk to maybe 30 or 40 players and interact with even less. How many players do you interact with, in or out of game? For most of us it's a few hundred at most, out of probably tens of thousands of active players in this game. We only ever see a tiny slice of the playerbase.

There were 10,000 active alliances in the last PvE. This game has been downloaded probably 30 million times. These are huge numbers. The game is wildly successful and it's played by a ton of people.

Why is it so hard to accept that you're in the upper class, the top percentage of all players? I accept it and I enjoy it -- I've been playing forever and that effort puts me at the top of the game.

I never said I WASN'T in the 5-star tier, not even sure where you're getting that from. My argument from the beginning, has been that the 5-star player base isn't some incredibly small, insignificant amount of players. Certainly enough to matter to developers, which you seem hell-bent on proving we don't.

entrailbucket

It absolutely is "some incredibly small, insignificant slice of players," when compared to the massive numbers of everyday players at lower roster tiers.

You've continually chosen to deny objective reality on that point, though, citing your "feelings," so now I actually am done. Do the math and test your hypothesis -- if you really think there are 20,000+ 5* players in MPQ, there should be 20+ CL10 brackets with nothing but champion 5* players. That should be easy to prove.

Scofie

I go out for one day... 😆

Look, it's an interesting argument, passionately fought on both sides with only observed data to go on. Unless you're both at the same stage of the game, you're not likely to agree.

Mod mode off

So here's my fictional lived experience 😉. I think my roster is pretty good so I'm not chasing much at this point other than the 4 Classic Legends I don't have champed. Moon Knight will be finished in 15 days (thanks Daily Resupply!) and then there will be 3. I see plenty of players with Champed 5* rosters and others who don't. I tend to look through other Alliances in and around mine (which is pretty mixed in terms of play amount with both new and experienced players) once I've finished my PvE grind and there are some with mixed players like mine. About 40-50% of the rosters I see have a champed 5* and that's similar to my alliance. Again it's not necessarily representative, but I'm guessing the number is somewhere in the lower end of the range.

Anyway, to try and get the subject back to the VIP rewards and their relevance to different player groups, I think VIP is great for the vast majority of the player base. It's definitely better value for money than the equivalent Iso/HP in the store but you have to wait so it's not going to suit everyone. I'm effectively post-ISO and post-HP (25k in the bank - though obviously I can spend it on goodies but I earn faster than I spend, even with the new release schedule!). But I will always need tokens and CP as the new characters are always coming up. Some players need everything so it's "better value" for them, but until the world stops turning and they run out of charades, it will always have some utility. And some shiny new costumes (well, new for me!). 🙂

entrailbucket

You think it's 40%?!?!?

We really need to get somebody over there to give us an actual answer!