Character Rebalance - 5* Wasp (Hope Van Dyne) (Live 2/16)

DAZ0273

I had a headache just reading the power descriptions, it all seems a bit convoluted. Will try the Quantumania team in DDQ though.

DAZ0273

4* Ant Man seemed more useful when I just played Team Q but then again I only have a 9 cover Wasp at 255 so maybe that is it.

Bad

Yeah you can try the full insect team and then there will be a lot of swarm tiles.
But then again, is a team of a 5* and 2 4*s.

Mr_F

I have used her extensively for two and half years straight, out of which 1,5 after I have champed her. Due to me quitting/less playing during that time, I have ended in a hard way of entering 5* land with just her and adding others months later. I have 16+ page long thread all about just that. When I am saying that since her "half live update" been doing her stuff not just fine but a lot of better than before even with her Shink the Swarm and Grow The Swarm costing 12 ap and not 5/7 respectively, then I know what I am saying. Can't say I've been beating meta teams like Immortals or mThor/SC but 've been beating some SC and Chasm and few non meta teams a lot easier than before with her with same partners used as before (Emma+Yelena). Been losing too.

Neverthless, It does not mean You all can't feel dissapointed and have different opinions than mine on how good or bad is her rebalance. If I am the only player enjoying the changes then I can't argue with your statements. Maybe I really am to biased here and I am th eone who is wrong. Just maybe. Who knows?

My opinion, as of now, is that her rebalance is on par with some others which were made in last 2,5 months and is satisfaying for me (FOR ME). She really, for me (FOR ME), is way better now. And it makes me sad, that I am the only one feeling that way.

So, saying that I will try to keep myself shut upped and try to listen to other voices of all of ya. I do not consider myself a All Mighty, All Knowing Wasp expert at all. Also I do not want to make this thread all about me vs the world or my trying convincing the world. After all, I am just only one player here and even If i am most know Wasp Enjoyer, I can not make this thread all mine.

P.S. @Vhailorx has waited for mine 10 000 words diatribe on how her rebalance will ruin her. Sorry to dissapoint you, not gonna happen as of now. But here we go, everybody else feel free to satisfy him!

Bowgentle

No, please, keep weighing in!
Just don't be disappointed that we don't share your excitement.

DAZ0273

I grew the Swarm but I don't think I shrank the swarm or called it? As I said, mine isn't an ideal one to test because my 4* Team Q members are better than Hope so she was always going to struggle to shine. She really could do with a 5* partner if I am honest because Scott and Janet as fun as they are need Hope to be the mainstay and I am not sure she can carry the team even with this re-fit.

Mr_F

@Bowgentle said:
No, please, keep weighing in!
Just don't be disappointed that we don't share your excitement.

I am dissapointed you (plural) don't like the rebalance. But I am also open for opinions of others. Will repeate myself: I might be biased (too biased) here.

DAZ0273

I will add that I was very much expecting a 5* Ant Man which I assumed together with a rebalance to her would make Hope viable. I mean we could still get one, if we do then things might change. Sadly though having only 4* partners on her key component really makes it tricky to build teams.

Punisher5784

I appreciate the efforts but this is still very disappointing. It looks like too much time was spent keeping Swarm tiles a thing, while randomly adding them to Ant-Man and 4* Wasp, which was not necessary.

Karass

whilst not everything is set in place atm, my tryouts of Wasp 2.0 are seriously subpar. Even the tweaks to the Antman and W4SP had better results than this much needed Wasp. Unless numbers are bumped, I won't play her.

Kolence

I'm glad to see Hope improved. Sadly, this doesn't look strong enogh to make her usable in pvp, boosted.

Of course, it remains to be seen how it all works in practice with the proper grow abilities costs, but imo the main problem has ramained, that her tiles are locked in place while they go on her colors. Also an issue is those are all active powers and swarm tiles are not made passively by Hope herself.

With Ant-Man, she's definitely looking more fun and should have the extra help making her mid tier, if a bit slower.

Another thing I'm interested in seeing how it plays is her mirror match (only her pvp I guess). Swarm tiles are neutral and there's potential the AI actually helps the player. Otherwise, you'd need to save enough AP on 2 colors at once before firing her powers.

Bad

@Mr_F said:
After all, I am just only one player here and even If i am most know Wasp Enjoyer, I can not make this thread all mine.

Indeed. Because it's an official announcement of a rebalanced character.
But thanks for your concession, now we can comment a character rebalance who belongs to a game.
And who is arguably pretty bad, before and now after.

Mr_F

@Karass said:
whilst not everything is set in place atm, my tryouts of Wasp 2.0 are seriously subpar. Even the tweaks to the Antman and W4SP had better results than this much needed Wasp. Unless numbers are bumped, I won't play her.

As of today, Her Health and Match damage arent upped yet due to the issue which has arised after unbinding CtS from Yellow and Black powers. They will be as of tomorrow. The calculation from dev's posted on Discord suggest that CtS should do on average 15.7k-26,7k of AoE dmg + the shake on ungraded dmg. When tomorrow damage would be upped, it should be 18,5k-34,3k AoE Damage+shake. The difference if from tile's destruction and number of swarm tiles on board.

Her new black easily did for me 24k damage +healing many times today.

So I expect average damage going up as of tomorrow.

Mr_F

@Kolence said:
Another thing I'm interested in seeing how it plays is her mirror match (only her pvp I guess). Swarm tiles are neutral and there's potential the AI actually helps the player. Otherwise, you'd need to save enough AP on 2 colors at once before firing her powers.

Tried in on AntMan PVP. Yes, the AI can help player with that. Swarm tiles seemed to belong to both sides universally.

@Bad said:

@Mr_F said:
After all, I am just only one player here and even If i am most know Wasp Enjoyer, I can not make this thread all mine.

Indeed. Because it's an official announcement of a rebalanced character.
But thanks for your concession, now we can comment a character rebalance who belongs to a game.
And who is arguably pretty bad, before and now after.

I saw pretty high numbers in game during my today's test runs. Definetly she needs more testing to confirm IRL numbers.

LavaManLee

If other people enjoy playing the new 5* Wasp, that is fine with me. Her convoluted play style and the amount of time it will take to even do anything with her is not my cup of tea.

tonypq

@Mr_F

Glad Wasp got a rebalance that you're pleased with and waited a long time for. I'm sure you'll continue to have a blast with her. There's lots of players who use characters they simply find fun rather than only rolling out the same meta teams over and over. Maybe with her tweaks she'll open the door for some new team combos for you as your roster grows.

Personally like others mentioned I wish they did a bit more with the rebalance, but I've said the same thing for many other characters after they had their turn. We shouldn't expect rebalancing to turn said character to GOD mode,. Especially one like Wasp who we all know was towards the bottom of the spectrum to begin with and was designed with somewhat slow complicated mechanics. She's definitely a bit more fun and useful for those who have her covered and will be better when boosted when that might be the only time many would use her a ways.

KGB

As Hound mentioned, there is a Winfine possibility on Black if you can get a Black battery to get it started (you'd need to cast Blue at least once for the 4+ swarm tile requirement).

That seems like it will be way she will be most viable.

KGB

Bowgentle

@KGB said:
As Hound mentioned, there is a Winfine possibility on Black if you can get a Black battery to get it started (you'd need to cast Blue at least once for the 4+ swarm tile requirement).

That seems like it will be way she will be most viable.

KGB

For softcappers, maybe.

DAZ0273

@Bowgentle said:

@KGB said:
As Hound mentioned, there is a Winfine possibility on Black if you can get a Black battery to get it started (you'd need to cast Blue at least once for the 4+ swarm tile requirement).

That seems like it will be way she will be most viable.

KGB

For softcappers, maybe.

"Softcappers Nazi's, I hate these guys"

BlackBoltRocks

For me, the disappointment at this rework is twofold.

First, ever since BCS took over, all the 5s that have been released under them have been solid at worse. Even Arcade has some utility and use; he’s notably better than Wasp and Mehneto. They’ve given us characters who are either meta, near there, or who can at least hold their own against many meta characters. The most meh release under BCS has been Wong, and even he is leagues better than Wasp.

Second, their reworks of 5s until now has also been solid. As someone mentioned, characters like Surfer, Banner, and Phoenix, while not meta, have been given a new lease of life. When you see them on the enemy team, they might not be as scary as iHulk+Chasm, but you know you won’t be having an easy ride. Plus BCS has shown they can take a near-rubbish character and make them decent; just look at Buffpin, who I would say is quite solid now. He gave me quite a bit of trouble in the recent challenge node. The most underwhelming rework before this under BC was IM46, and even then he’s still somewhat decent. I’d rank FirstCap’s and Gambit’s fixes as just above IM46.

With these, it’s reasonable that the playerbase had high hopes for Wasp. Everyone knew she was DOA the instant she was announced. When we learnt she was finally getting buffed, we were quietly optimistic. No one was expecting her to be the next meta character who passively prevented enemies from reviving (though I don’t think anyone would have minded if she did!); we just wanted her to be solid, sitting alongside the likes of Banner and Buffpin.

And then we got this.