Character Rebalance - 5* Wasp (Hope Van Dyne) (Live 2/16)

IceIX
IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,322 Site Admin
edited February 2023 in MPQ General Discussion

Just in time for the premiere of Ant-Man: Quantumania, we've got reworks for three (sometimes) ant sized characters! These reworks make them work a bit better together, and in the case of Wasp and Wasp, actually usable together. Let's get right to it, here's Hope!

Wasp (Hope Van Dyne)

General:

  • Wasp (Janet Van Dyne) and Wasp (Hope Van Dyne) are now usable at the same time.
  • Wasp's health and match damage have been increased to current generation amounts. Note: This change will be going Live on 2/17, not with her other ability updates. A technical issue prevented this from going Live immediately.
  • Hope's Character Icon and Tile Icon have been updated. Previously, Hope and Janet shared the same icons.

New Character Icon

New Tile Icon

Sting Operation - 6 Blue AP
The Wasp uses her influence to take the enemy down from within and expose their plans. Steal 4 random AP. For each different color stolen, create 1 Blue Locked Swarm tile and destroy a random enemy Strike, Attack, or Protect tile.

(PASSIVE) If there are 4 or more Swarm tiles on the board, this ability becomes Call the Swarm.

  • Level 2: No change.
  • Level 3: Steal 5 AP.
  • Level 4: No change.
  • Level 5: Steal 6 AP.

A more different AP steal (used to steal 2-4 of one pool, now steals up to 6 randomly) makes this less powerful as a direct AP steal, but also makes it much more directly powerful as a Swarm tile creator. Instead of creating a 2-3 turn CD tile that made 1-2 Swarm tiles, it now makes a Swarm tile for each different AP pool stolen. Given normal odds, that's going to be 3-4 tiles a usage instead of maybe 2 if the CD survives. Add onto this a bit of bonus SAP destruction and the ability is useful in niche situations even if you're not interested in stealing AP at that point.
Note: Bug here that will be fixed. Currently, trying to steal a 0 AP pool will create a Swarm tile, when it should only do that when it actually steals AP from that pool.

Call the Swarm - 12 Blue AP
With the might of the swarm at her will, Wasp deals 2481 team damage and grows her Swarm tiles, destroying them and three tiles around them, then stuns the enemy team for 1 turn per 3 Swarm tiles destroyed (rounding down) (Destroyed non-Swarm tiles do not generate AP.)

(PASSIVE) Wasp's match damage is increased by 10% per Swarm tile. If there are less than 4 Swarm tiles on the board, this power becomes Sting Operation. (Max 9971 damage)

  • Level 2-5: No Change.

Still fairly expensive, this ability now deals about 45% more damage, but not only to the target as before. Now it deals full enemy team damage. As well, the ability now generates AP off of any destroyed Swarm tile, so it's capable of earning some of the AP back and being a more general AP battery.

Shrink Tactics - 10 Yellow AP
Taking perfect aim, Wasp shoots a Pym disc to shrink her teammate so they can infiltrate the enemy base. Turns a selected ally Invisible for 2 turns and places 1 Yellow Locked Swarm tile(s).

(PASSIVE) When there are at least 4 Swarm tiles on the board (max 12), this ability becomes Shrink the Swarm.

  • Level 2: Create 2 Swarm tiles.
  • Level 3: Turns the ally Invisible for 3 turns.
  • Level 4: Create 3 Swarm tiles.
  • Level 5: Turns the ally Invisible for 4 turns.

Unchanged, this ability already does pretty well for what it's attempting to do. However, it now doesn't change to a copy of Call the Swarm, it now leads to its own ability Shrink the Swarm.

Shrink the Swarm - 5 Yellow AP
Wasp sees the need for tact, and to unleash the swarm only when necessary. Select 3 Swarm tiles. All others are removed, giving allies a burst of 2481 health and gaining 1 Yellow AP for each Swarm tile removed (up to 5 AP).

(PASSIVE) If there are 3 or less Swarm tiles on the board, this ability becomes Shrink Tactics. (Max 9971 healing)

  • Level 2-5: No change.

This all new ability allows Hope to get out of the Swarm functionality if she desires, with a refund to some of the cost as well as a very healthy heal. Removing 9 max Swarm tiles (12 max, keeping 3) would be a 100K total team burst heal. So sure, it's a bit time consuming to get that many tiles, but can be extremely powerful as a healing ability.
Note: As a result of the same technical issue preventing Wasp from updating her Health and Match damage, this ability is currently mis-costed at the original 12 AP. This will be fixed to the above value.

Pain Index - 10 Black AP
Wasp blasts her enemy to send them reeling. Steal a burst of 1107 health from the target, and an additional 443 health per Swarm tile on the board, then create 1 Black Locked Swarm tile(s).

(PASSIVE) When there are at least 4 Swarm tiles on the board (max 12), this ability becomes Grow the Swarm. (Max level 4451/1781 healing)

  • Level 2: Steal 1328 health. (Max level 5341/1781 healing)
  • Level 3: Steal 1550 health. (Max level 6231/1781 healing)
  • Level 4: Create 2 Swarm tiles.
  • Level 5: Steal 1993 health. (Max level 8012/1781 healing)

This ability was weird in that it only created Swarm tiles if you stole enough health, which required a number of Swarm tiles on the board at lower levels, but was free at higher levels. This made it pretty much a required 5 point ability if you needed it for Swarm tile generation, but a dump stat due to low healing otherwise. The power of the ability has been buffed by about 50% base and now always places Black Swarm tiles. As well, it now leads to its own ability Grow the Swarm.

Grow the Swarm - 7 Black AP
The time isn't yet right, but the Swarm can make itself known in smaller ways. Create a random Locked Swarm tile and gain 1 Black AP for every 2 Swarm tiles on the board (rounded up) (up to 12) then deal 2481 damage to the enemy team for each Swarm tile on the board.

(PASSIVE) If there are 3 or less Swarm tiles on the board, this ability becomes Pain Index. (Max 9971 healing)

  • Level 2-5: No change.

This ability allows Hope to have an inexpensive method of making new Swarm tiles (7 at first, but she gets refunded an amount of that), as well as dealing some enemy team damage, but without the full destruction and attendant tile damage that Call the Swarm creates. Along with Shrink the Swarm, these two abilities provide relatively low cost methods of Swarm management until she wants to bust out Call the Swarm for some real damage.
Note: As a result of the same technical issue preventing Wasp from updating her Health and Match damage, this ability is currently mis-costed at the original 12 AP. This will be fixed to the above value.

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Comments

  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,187 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    Interesting changes. Shrink Tactics, Pain Index, and Call the Swarm are still quite expensive. Her Blue is the only clearcut 5 cover-ability; you could feasibly use any of 5/5/3, 5/4/4, or 5/3/5. She'll be a bit more fun to play with, but imo she suffers from the same issue plagueing OML, in that you need a fair amount of setup to transform her powers, and even then you might not get to fire off the alternate powers. Not sure how this will boost her viability, especially during her boost weeks, but all the same I'll have fun trying her out.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't think this will make her usable when boosted... Burst healing is definitely meh, no matter if it's 1000 or 100.000.
    But it's a step in the right direction.

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    I am a little less enthusiastic than Mr. F (no surprise given the topic). I like that some effort was made to preserve the feel of her kit while adding to its strength and versatility. Sadly, I think 2 active powers that cost 10 ap is basically a nonstarter on the current game environment. I would also have liked her black health steal to be true healing, even if she keeps the team burst heal.

    The one hope (pun intended!) I can see is that she only needs 6 blue ap to switch into her alt mode which has much more reasonable ap costs. That might let her play faster than she looks on paper.

    But overall, I am glad to see a big overhaul to this long, LONG derided trash tier stalwart. And I am also relieved to know that we will all be able to "[verb] the swarm" for many years to come. Well done BCS!

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    My initial prescription for the new kit:

    Lower some costs: Blue Alt 10ap, yellow prime 7ap, black prime 8ap.

    Blue alt passive adds +25% match damage per swarm tile, Black prime is true heal.

    As a last flavor change, at the risk of making her very slow, I would let the swarm tiles move each turn, like the aim goons. Little bugs crawling around the board is a nice injection of chaos and fits the theme.

    I don't think that character would be OP, or even anywhere near the meta, but she would then be very rewarding for anyone willing to invest the time into really pushing a swarm strategy.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    A lot of people are sleeping on her infinite black AoE with the right teammate.

    12 Blue aps
    AoE Damage + Aoe Stun for at least 1 turn.
    Match damage is increased by 10% per Swarm tile.
    Generates aps for Swarm tiles destroyed

    5 yellow aps
    Team burst heals
    Gains up to 5 yellow aps for each Swarm tile removed.

    7 black aps
    Regains up to 6 black aps
    30k AoE

    If you could reduce her black power to 4 or 3aps, you can keep casting this ability until the enemies are downed because 7-4+6= 9 black ap net. Removal of Swarm tiles are not mentioned here. You could aim for 8 Swarm tiles and reduce her black to 4 aps and you still could cast this indefinitely.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Come on.
    17 black AP for the initial AOE.

    Nobody is sleeping on that, it's just not very good.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,812 Chairperson of the Boards

    I’m at the point where I’d rather they spent the dev time fixes other issues and bugs and do no more than a health and match damage quick adjustment.

    Seems to have moved the pointer from 0 to 1 for me. Still unused even boosted.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Keyword: right teammates.
    I'm waiting for this to go live and test my infinite Swarm AoE. If it's successful, I'll post the video.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yes I'm sure the right teammates will make her awesome.

  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 587 Critical Contributor

    I’m genuinely shocked that after 4 years of being completely useless you’ve changed her and…she’s still completely useless.

    Expensive convoluted weak powers in a world where chasm steals all your AP are absolutely worthless.

    Please have another (proper) go.

  • ShionSinX
    ShionSinX Posts: 61 Match Maker
    edited February 2023

    @Bowgentle said:
    Come on.
    17 black AP for the initial AOE.
    Nobody is sleeping on that, it's just not very good.

    She doesnt needs to use black to change it, just need 4 swarm tiles on the board. If someone makes them for her and then you just cash in with the transformed black and you didnt need to spend 17 AP for it. For example, Ant-Man makes 5 for 7AP.

    Maybe with the right supports you could change your strongest colors to yellow and black and pair both with Deathlok, as everyone is a technologist? (or get bonus initial AP from the supports themselves)

  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 587 Critical Contributor

    @ShionSinX said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    Come on.
    17 black AP for the initial AOE.
    Nobody is sleeping on that, it's just not very good.

    She doesnt needs to use black to change it, just need 4 swarm tiles on the board. If someone makes them for her and then you just cash in with the transformed black and you didnt need to spend 17 AP for it. For example, Ant-Man makes 5 for 7AP.

    Maybe with the right supports you could change your strongest colors to yellow and black and pair both with Deathlok, as everyone is a technologist? (or get bonus initial AP from the supports themselves)

    I presume you’re not a 5* player

  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,187 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    Tried her in out in pvp, and the verdict is: she still sucks.

    Oh well.

    If you want a Yellow/Blue/Black character that can heal and do some solid damage, just use God Doom. He's a million times better.

    (PS I would genuinely love to be wrong, and someone finds a killer combo for Wa5p, but I don't see that happening.)

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,812 Chairperson of the Boards

    Oh I have no issue with D tier. My issue is spending a load of dev time and pushing things back because of all the work going into make a D- a D+.

    So much broken stuff I’d rather that time is used for.

    I’m losing faith in the direction despite all the generosity.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards

    I reserve the right to change my mind, but it seems to me that these powers are sloooooow. Is this even useful boosted?

    Maybe I'm sleeping on some synergy shenanigans? There has to be a reason for these absurdly expensive AP costs.

  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor

    If you will take D tier and upgrade it to be B tier or better, than "suddenly" new characters will be considered D tier. The neverending circle will begin.

    Same, even if EVERY 5* there is as of today will be Chasm/SC tier level of power then even among them will be D-C tiers albeit with less difference in raw power.

    There always will be D-C Tiers.

    What they have to do with reworking/rebalancing characters is mostly just fixing the design problem or upping the standards (like match/power dmg etc.) not turning everybody into A or S Tier. Wasp Update/rebalance IMO was never supposed to make her good/viable. It was supposed to fix her biggest issues which where: lack of swarm partner, low numbers on powers, slow to go.

    And now she has partners to go with (will still love partner in 5* too), her numbers were upped (with addition of AOE), her healing is increased, her support elements are better and she is easier to go and keep going. She still does same stuff as before but just better.

    Which is awesome for me. Let me do some tests - especially when she will be fully upgraded as of tomorrow - and I will come back with better quality opinion.

    So far, the teams I have used with her so far are doing better. Which is just straight good.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Look we know YOU love her, regardless.
    Still I think it's reasonable to ask for a rework that pleases more than one player.

  • Rod5
    Rod5 Posts: 587 Critical Contributor

    I genuinely couldn’t disagree with you more…making one character usable (at least boosted) does not make another less so.

    The devs have been making older characters usable successfully (see Banner/Surfer/Phoenix) without impacting any sort of meta.

    No idea why they couldn’t just give her a usable affordable skillset rather than flogging the long-dead swarm horse.

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