***** Chasm (Ben Reilly) *****

1235711

Comments

  • statnut
    statnut Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    This character looks insane. Looking forward to trying them out. 
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    @fight4thedream

    Chasing black isn't really possible if this character is tanking black. You would match black, gain 3 AP. Then, assuming you have the spec1 tiles on the board, you'd burn 3 black AP at end of turn. 

    You'd need to match another color, so someone else tanks, then cascade into black,to not lose black in the same turn you match it. 

    Also, the way it is worded, the AP burn happens to the strongest color of the front characters that is nonzero. If this wording is intentional, you will burn the second strongest color if the strongest color is already empty, and so on. 

    Gargantos is a good partner also because his strongest color is passive, but you may need to maintain green to avoid burning blue, if my last paragraph is correct in how it works. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    Based on historical sentence structures of the new dev team, if it refers to any of the three strongest colours, they will use "any of x strongest colours" or "in one of x colours". For example, 5* KK and 5* JF use such wordings for their blue abilities. 4* Hulking uses similar wordings. On top of that, the word strongest colour is singular.  Of course, the sentence structure could change when the character is revealed. But as of now, I think they are referring to only the strongest colour of the front character.

    I just realised his crit multiplier is an all time low: x2. It's the second lowest after 3x. Historically, the lowest was 3x.
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    edited July 2022
    "both teams lose 1 AP from the front character’s strongest color with 1 or more AP" 

    The "strongest color with 1 or more AP" does not need to be "the strongest color".

    If this guy has zero black AP, then the "strongest color with 1 or more AP" is not black for him. It should move onto the next strongest color and check if it is nonzero.

    I don't believe comparing this to KK, JJ, or Hulkling is relevant, the point of interest is the clause, which is not present for those characters. This clause would be irrelevant in your interpretation. I am choosing to believe it is there intentionally. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    You could be right. I just remembered for the past few character reveals, the sentence structures changed quite a lot before and after the proper reveal is out. 
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    Agreed that the sentence could change by release. 
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    It could even not change and just not mean what I think the clause implies. 

    This character will certainly be stronger in my interpretation than yours Hound, so it will be important to see how it turns out. 
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    wymtime said:
    Vhailorx said:
    wymtime said:
    Vhailorx said:
    wymtime said:
    I think it is really good that there is a counter to SW and Colosus, but I am starting to think this character will move the Meta backwards not forwards.  When you go pick 3 Sim and some PVP events it will be Okoye, IHulk, this character.  The reason why is SW will be stunned then IHulk will just destroy everyone.  Bringing a Moonknight/BP to the fight won’t matter becuase neither reduce damage like SW.  

    the sad thing is this characters first 3 powers don’t matter that much since the stun every turn is going to be the power that moves the meta backwards to IHulk Okoye
    Stun every turn? Isn't it once at the star of battle and again on revive?

    You are right I read it wrong.  I thought it stunned the other team each turn just till it was there turn.  

    yeah, I would have been concerned about that too. if the passive worked that way it would almost completely negate all defensive passives.
    Now it will be really interesting.  This character will be great against mindless ones, but might not be super strong in PVP.  The AP steal will be nice as well as the resurrection, but depending on the buff list for each week he might not be super strong
    It's not AP steal. It's AP destruction for both teams! At 5 covers this character is going to be stronger than pre-nerf Gambit since he can potentially destroy 3 AP per team in the strongest color of their front character.

    As players we can specify the AI ordering so can decide which color to deny but it will cut both ways denying your colors too if you keep switching who is in front.

    When you use this character you want an all match damage team since firing powers could be difficult with all the AP destruction (or you want Garg as his partner since Garg's passive loves to find empty enemy AP pools).

    KGB
    Yea I mix up steal and destruction.  In PVP it isn’t always that valuable since it is the strongest  color.  This could mean a passive color is destroyed over a active power.  Also it is self damage done to both the character and the one in front.  It will work and be effective, but depending on who else is buffed the week this character is I can also see him squeezed out of PVP pick 2 teams.  He is interesting, just not as meta as I originally thought
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    KGB said:
    wymtime said:
    Vhailorx said:
    wymtime said:
    Vhailorx said:
    wymtime said:
    I think it is really good that there is a counter to SW and Colosus, but I am starting to think this character will move the Meta backwards not forwards.  When you go pick 3 Sim and some PVP events it will be Okoye, IHulk, this character.  The reason why is SW will be stunned then IHulk will just destroy everyone.  Bringing a Moonknight/BP to the fight won’t matter becuase neither reduce damage like SW.  

    the sad thing is this characters first 3 powers don’t matter that much since the stun every turn is going to be the power that moves the meta backwards to IHulk Okoye
    Stun every turn? Isn't it once at the star of battle and again on revive?

    You are right I read it wrong.  I thought it stunned the other team each turn just till it was there turn.  

    yeah, I would have been concerned about that too. if the passive worked that way it would almost completely negate all defensive passives.
    Now it will be really interesting.  This character will be great against mindless ones, but might not be super strong in PVP.  The AP steal will be nice as well as the resurrection, but depending on the buff list for each week he might not be super strong
    It's not AP steal. It's AP destruction for both teams! At 5 covers this character is going to be stronger than pre-nerf Gambit since he can potentially destroy 3 AP per team in the strongest color of their front character.

    As players we can specify the AI ordering so can decide which color to deny but it will cut both ways denying your colors too if you keep switching who is in front.

    When you use this character you want an all match damage team since firing powers could be difficult with all the AP destruction (or you want Garg as his partner since Garg's passive loves to find empty enemy AP pools).

    KGB

    Well, it's more ap destruction than gambit, but (1) it affects both teams and (2) while gambit's AP suppression was strong it wasn't what made him the king of MPQ (as proven by the fact that he was just as dominant before the "nerf" that gave him AP destruction). He was the best because he generated more AP than halthor,  had a super strong (for the time) offensive output in his red, and was basically immune to all special-tile based attacks (of the time) because of his purple. (note that do to power creep his original purple and red would now be borderline tier 2 powers in the current meta).
    I do wonder if ????'s ap suppression will be enough to complement garg's green passive. I think they might still be overwhelmed by enemy ap generation (especially on goon + tilemover teams that can average way more than 3-4ap per turn).
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Since this character will probably be tanking, just don’t bring someone with a black active ability (Sorry colossus). Hulkoye will be fine because they can still fire yellow/red and likely drain unused black/green (who cares?).

    Shang will eventually have the highest match damage, and him losing red AP will hurt with this character. 
    Unless I am misunderstanding their green passive match ability, if you want to maximize damage output from this character the goal is to keep both your and your opponent's AP levels as close to zero as possible. Considering that black is their highest match damage color and Colossus' black is only 6 AP, it would seem that chasing black and then dumping it with Colossus' active black would be a good strategy, no?  The trade off is that Colossus won't be tanking so you won't be getting his extra damage. Additionally, they both will be hitting hard with match damage at least initially since they will cover all colors except red. 

    I am pretty sure Colossus is probably one of their best partners for pick 2 PvP, especially if the third character can function as an outlet for green/purple.  

    From what I can tell, this character won't play very nicely with most other characters since their damage output is reliant on keeping AP levels on both teams low and they will be burning your own AP stockpile. If you are trying to use them as your primary damage dealer, you basically need to pair them with characters that share their same primary colors so you can chase those colors and release them. Since Team-UP AP doesn't count toward the AP penalty, it seems iHulk/Okoye + this character is ok to run with for PvE but I think there are better characters to team them up with for most situations.  I don't think this team will do much against Colossus/Wanda teams though except do some damage from the initial free hit that comes with the start of battle stun.

    I am curious if Mighty Thor is intended to keep this character in check since she produces charged tiles that will help raise AP levels quickly and destroys special tiles which should help prevent their revival and/or heal ability. 

    Then again, I might just be misunderstanding the overall design.

    I am very curious to see how the damage boosting power works in practice.  it's not 5ap in each color like wiccan, it's an average of 5ap per color, which means 30 total ap, right?  So it should be possible to chase one or two colors without immediately dropping the match damage down.  Still, in longer matches it seems like ???? will spend a lot of time at 90% match damage, and I don't know if the rest of the kit makes up for that low damage output. This character is very intriguing, but has far too many novel mechanics for me to be confident either way about the the overall strength of the kit.
  • Blackstone
    Blackstone Posts: 595 Critical Contributor
    For a moment I thought my 15 cover moon knight might get more just off this guy became three new meta... But there AP destruction might outweigh MKs stunblock. 
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 964 Critical Contributor
    If this really is Venom, I could sure use some love towards Carbage in his release store.
  • bladewing
    bladewing Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    benr69 said:
    Ben Reilly : genetic clone of Spider-Man.  Fan favorite from comics.  Thus also web tiles.  Additionally the clones can deteriorate.  Hoping for this hero version & not the latest villain version showing up in the upcoming Dark Web comic book story. 

    One of this character's affiliations is Villian. So I doubt it will be the hero version, unfortunately.
  • Venomous
    Venomous Posts: 222 Tile Toppler
    YES! Web Tiles! And hey! I called him too... Just didn't know he wasn't Jackal anymore. 
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,308 Site Admin
    Here's the info for our latest Spider-Person, Chasm!
  • BradUF
    BradUF Posts: 11 Just Dropped In

    Break Bad Legendary Store - 8/7 - 8/10

    15% chance to get Chasm (Ben Reilly), Ultron (Age of Ultron), Killmonger (Erik Stevens)

    Additional Tokens can be purchased for 25 Command Points

    I was hoping we’d see the other two 5* spider man/Peter Parkers in this vault.
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,308 Site Admin
    BradUF said:

    Break Bad Legendary Store - 8/7 - 8/10

    15% chance to get Chasm (Ben Reilly), Ultron (Age of Ultron), Killmonger (Erik Stevens)

    Additional Tokens can be purchased for 25 Command Points

    I was hoping we’d see the other two 5* spider man/Peter Parkers in this vault.
    There will be other Spider-Vaults for that.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,875 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    What are people liking for a build?  I didn’t realize there’s a cap on the AP drain. You/enemy are only losing three AP a turn IF you put 5 in that color. Not the shutdown I was imagining. And consequently it’ll be very hard to have the AP near zero for both teams which hurts the last power as well. I can’t call it with this one with regards to how he’ll play in practice. Part of me is thinking 4 purple could be good. Revive with lower health = more easy self-death = more stunning the opponent team. 
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,003 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’m thinking 5/3/5 but 5/4/4 seems passable. Looks like true healing so that’s always welcome. 

    With his green at 5, it would basically mean, you’re doing some heavy match damage for not just the first turn, but the next 4 or 5 unless very unlucky. The threshold for the match damage to go down to (I’m assuming) 200% would be for the average AP for both teams to be 2, not adding in how many web tiles are on the field. 

    So let’s say you team him up with 5* Spiderman (Peter Parker) who at 4/5/4, makes 3 web tiles on his first turn and 3 more on his 2nd. That’s 6 web tiles and that pushes Chasm’s threshold back to being  at 250% longer…… 

    Right?
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,466 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’m thinking 5/3/5 but 5/4/4 seems passable. Looks like true healing so that’s always welcome. 

    With his green at 5, it would basically mean, you’re doing some heavy match damage for not just the first turn, but the next 4 or 5 unless very unlucky. The threshold for the match damage to go down to (I’m assuming) 200% would be for the average AP for both teams to be 2, not adding in how many web tiles are on the field. 

    So let’s say you team him up with 5* Spiderman (Peter Parker) who at 4/5/4, makes 3 web tiles on his first turn and 3 more on his 2nd. That’s 6 web tiles and that pushes Chasm’s threshold back to being  at 250% longer…… 

    Right?

    Yeah, that's how I read it - the more web tiles on the board, the longer Chasm has until his match damage drops off.  Also, the longer that goes on, the more Abyss tiles he makes.
    He'll probably be murder with one of the (several, really) serious 4* Web tile spammers, but of course running a 4* in a 5* team is always risky.  Still, good way to make him tank, create Abyss tiles, and be hard to kill.