***** Gargantos (Multiverse of Madness) *****

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I knew Shuma only from playing Marvel vs Capcom or one of the Marvel Arcade game. I don't know anything about his comic history.

    And talking about that, I would like to see Blackheart in MPQ so that I can team him up with Wiccan.  :p
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    MoosePrime said:
    I have a 3* Kra-van at level 150, it increases blue damage by 247.
    That should be enough for a level 450 garg.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rank 3 Kra Van at 150 boosts blue by 247
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards
    Got Gargantos up to 5/2/2 after he finally went into LL. HawkEyeball is a meta duo. 

    I really like them with dr strange vs Wanda teams to stun and drain Wanda and cut her off first. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tiger_Wong said:
    Got Gargantos up to 5/2/2 after he finally went into LL. HawkEyeball is a meta duo. 

    I really like them with dr strange vs Wanda teams to stun and drain Wanda and cut her off first. 

    This is a pretty solid idea. Strange's blue has always been awesome, and the problem was that it was a little slow (and he tanks blue in many teams if they don't have a modern 5* who is strong in blue).

    But HE/garg solves both of those problems as it fuels the blue and protects squishy strange.
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    A max champed Eddie Brock threshold is only 930 damage and he creates 112 strength protect tile, which is way lower than Shuma's 356 critieria at 3 cover. Too bad, I can't find any good use for yellow. 4* Dr Ock was pretty close but it's not close enough and he could remove all of EB's protect tiles, which is a minus point. Patch has good potential but I need someone with good purple to chain things up, but there isn't any. So, this mini project is still a long way from being realised.

    Gargantos 5/3/5
    Venom (Eddie Brock) 5/5/3
    5* Storm 5/5/3 or 3/5/5

    been messing around with this and it works. It’s not about winfinite (though it can happen). It’s about feeding Gargantos’ strong black and blue one-hitters and then fueling Storm’s yellow by hitting venom’s enemy shields with GG’s black. 

    Gargantos is the major damage dealer so you can proc Storm’s black at 3 as it only needs to make charged black tiles. With Storm’s yellow at 5, you can get whichever color you choose to make the TUP’s turn into, 3 will be charged. 

    There’s really good synergy here. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's a good use for yellow. I can't wait to try out your team on ~28 July.  B)
     
    On average, how many yellow enemy protect tiles do you have on the board before you fire Gargantos' black power?
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    That's a good use for yellow. I can't wait to try out your team on ~28 July.  B)
     
    On average, how many yellow enemy protect tiles do you have on the board before you fire Gargantos' black power?
    Somewhere between 3 and 7.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's pretty good damage for 8ap: 15k to ~35k at 3 covers (up to 7 ap gains).
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    Got him champed.  Here are my initial thoughts:

    (1) HE + Garg is viable, even in most cl10 challenge nodes and against boosted 5*s in PVP. but there are some caveats.
    • They are a bit slow to get going. Garg's CDs don't proc until turn 2, and then it's only 1 at first. so it takes a good 4 or 5 rounds to get the first 9 blue, make garg invis, and start getting HE CDs to proc.
    • they have limited defensive options.  Garg is reasonably safe once invis, but HE exposed and has limited health. Maybe there are some supports for this, but a good defensive third (like 5witch or Colossus etc) is very helpful. 
    • Once this engine gets started, however, the match will end very quickly. SC and Okoye with 20+ TU are the only damage output that regularly surpasses what garg's blue can do when fed 9+ blue every round.
    (2) Garg's ap suppression is decent once he goes invis. similar to pre-nerf Gambit, but with some light boardshake added. noticeable, although not perfect and definitely susceptible to AI cascades.
    (3) the damage element of tentacle thrash is pretty random, which makes it harder to exploit, but maybe if you play into it more you can get better results. want to do additional experiments here.
    (4) Perhaps there is a way to really build around the black, but in regular play it seems pretty useless.  maybe against very select characters like polaris, but even then it still seems easier to just build to get 9 blue and burn her down directly. And it seems dangerous against BRB. So in early testing I have focused almost exclusively on the blue/green.
    Overall, I think the ceiling is there on this character, so it's just a matter of figuring out the best partner and what opponents are the soft counters that should be avoided.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Got him champed.  Here are my initial thoughts:

    Overall, I think the ceiling is there on this character, so it's just a matter of figuring out the best partner and what opponents are the soft counters that should be avoided.
    Agree with all your points about Gargantos. 
    As a duo, Garg and HE can punch above their weight. With enough blue ap, Garg can down any enemies, even in CL10. 
    But as they take some time to ramp up, they will take damage in the mean time. The Low classic health of HE also means that his health gets whittle down fast. 
    In sims, I have tried a few combinations. 
    1) Garg & HE & GR (RR). GR has modern health and match damage and helps to tank several colours when Garg goes invisible. GR also has a stun on red, which can be used strategically to buy a turn. GR green can also serve as an outlet for CD, which generate blue and red ap. 
    2) Garg & HE & SW. SW provides the damage mitigation, especially against cascades. Her purple also can be used in 2 diff ways, to generate extra blue or to boost Garg massive damage. For the latter I will choose red, and hoard it. There’s no good red outlet for this team, but when you generate 20 red ap, it’s going to boost Garg blue by a massive 100%. That’s crazy damage especially if you are punching up.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    I put this team in Fun Combos, but my 2/1/3 Gargantos is already slamming with Ronan/Hawkeye. In this scenario, Gargantos is just there to feed 1turn CDs passively, and Ronan is there to burn the blue down with Uncompromising power. All the red funnels through Hawkeye for more CDs and blue generation. I'm really interested to run Gargantos for his own sake after he's champed.

    Question for the champs out there - is invisible Gargantos's basic match damage doing the permanent damage red-bar on enemies like other perma-damage powers do? Mine doesn't seem to be doing it.
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Question for the champs out there - is invisible Gargantos's basic match damage doing the permanent damage red-bar on enemies like other perma-damage powers do? Mine doesn't seem to be doing it.
    I have him champed and it works for me. There is a minimum percent of the health bar that needs to be dealt in permanent damage before the UI appears though. Maybe that's your issue? So with home champed and boosted, my first match against an opponent with 130k health did not show the red bar, but it appeared after another match or two. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I put this team in Fun Combos, but my 2/1/3 Gargantos is already slamming with Ronan/Hawkeye. In this scenario, Gargantos is just there to feed 1turn CDs passively, and Ronan is there to burn the blue down with Uncompromising power. All the red funnels through Hawkeye for more CDs and blue generation. I'm really interested to run Gargantos for his own sake after he's champed.

    Question for the champs out there - is invisible Gargantos's basic match damage doing the permanent damage red-bar on enemies like other perma-damage powers do? Mine doesn't seem to be doing it.

    I will try to test today.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I put this team in Fun Combos, but my 2/1/3 Gargantos is already slamming with Ronan/Hawkeye. In this scenario, Gargantos is just there to feed 1turn CDs passively, and Ronan is there to burn the blue down with Uncompromising power. All the red funnels through Hawkeye for more CDs and blue generation. I'm really interested to run Gargantos for his own sake after he's champed.

    Question for the champs out there - is invisible Gargantos's basic match damage doing the permanent damage red-bar on enemies like other perma-damage powers do? Mine doesn't seem to be doing it.

    I will try to test today.
    I see the same behavior as jsm: match damage is permanent when invisible, but it doesn't always register in the UI when the damage is only a very very small % of the health bar. I have no reason to think that the damage isn't actually being tallied as permanent. It appears to be a visual issue only.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    Based on comments from those who actually have him champed, I wonder if I ranked him too high (top 10 right out of the gate, but I was just theory-crafting). Also, Insane Jane seems like a counter character who will wipe most of the CDs from Hawk/Garg/3rd right off the board, which should effectively take him out of potential meta contention and lower his ranking. 

    Has anyone tried Abby with Hawkgantos? Spec her blue to 3 and yellow to 5, since blue goes to Garg. I wonder if all the passive healing helps Hawkeye and makes them even more annoying to face on defense. I can’t imagine she’s better than Switch as a third though. 


  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Indeed the damage when invisible is permanent.
    However that only can be seen when boosted and if matching a critical tile, then the mark halving the enemy health bar will move a bit more to the left. Those effects only will be relevant against a healing defensive team inside a long battle, something we always try to avoid.
    Abby SW gargantos are a decent defensive team. Changing SW for HE imo won't make the team better as yellow Abby is a long 2 turns cd.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    Daredevil217 said:
    Based on comments from those who actually have him champed, I wonder if I ranked him too high (top 10 right out of the gate, but I was just theory-crafting). Also, Insane Jane seems like a counter character who will wipe most of the CDs from Hawk/Garg/3rd right off the board, which should effectively take him out of potential meta contention and lower his ranking. 

    Has anyone tried Abby with Hawkgantos? Spec her blue to 3 and yellow to 5, since blue goes to Garg. I wonder if all the passive healing helps Hawkeye and makes them even more annoying to face on defense. I can’t imagine she’s better than Switch as a third though. 



    yeah, maybe top 10 is a bit too high, but somewhere in the 10-15 range seems right to me.  he really really needs a blue battery if you want him to do the heavy lifting on your team.  That said, I think he is still a good character, especially when boosted, and he will be a go-to option whenever a good new 5* blue battery comes out.
  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,063 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Based on comments from those who actually have him champed, I wonder if I ranked him too high (top 10 right out of the gate, but I was just theory-crafting). Also, Insane Jane seems like a counter character who will wipe most of the CDs from Hawk/Garg/3rd right off the board, which should effectively take him out of potential meta contention and lower his ranking. 

    Has anyone tried Abby with Hawkgantos? Spec her blue to 3 and yellow to 5, since blue goes to Garg. I wonder if all the passive healing helps Hawkeye and makes them even more annoying to face on defense. I can’t imagine she’s better than Switch as a third though. 


    With Abby the main thing keeping the team from being more than annoying is that 1) Abagail is really squishy and 2) the healing only goes off 3 times per offensive turn. The team can get crushed vs match damage meta (colossus and Shang Chi) and cascade meta (onslaught and prof X teams and now soon to be FosThor teams). Also, the healing doesn’t really come into play until Gargantos becomes invisible. Crystal’s healing is so much better early in the match with HawkEyeball. 

    HawkEyeball needs to stay alive early in the match. Once Gargantos goes invisible everything changes. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2022
    I still think Elektra is the best third for this team: damage reduction + stunlock, or you could pair them with cd spammers like Deadpool, AC or Gertrude.

    What's more important is positioning once Shuma goes invisible. If Shuma is in the middle and it goes invisible and whenever it make matches of its colours it's tanking while invisible, the one positioned on the third will tank next. So, you will put Hawkeye on the left to protect him

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