***** Gargantos (Multiverse of Madness) *****

TheRiddler

HoundofShadow said:

The numbers look high to me. New meta with Hawkeye incoming.  

Numbers are very high. That blue at 9 AP does more than BRB Green does at 12 AP and it only goes higher with more AP.

That passive does 5k per tile. I still wonder if they replicate or if it just pops back up again each round.

If they replicate then yeah with Hawkeye by round 3 and on you would easily be able to fire that 40k blue every round which in turn puts even more of those passive tiles on the board.

Then double those damage numbers when boosted....

NM it says recreates

Bad

His blue power at 20 AP deals 85k damage. 
Godboosted deals 200k!
And black power also can bring havoc, still it doesn't says if a BRB opponent will get AP for protects or not.

IceIX

jsmjsmjsm00 said:

Does the SAP tile destruction threshold scale too or only the value of the reduction? 

The SAP destruction threshold (and bonus from extra Tentacle Thrash tiles) scales with level, but not with covers. They both max out at 178 at 450.

obikenobi12 said:

looks like ability 2 Black power can generate AP with the tile destruction. 

It does, yes.

Notepaddy

Are the Tentacle Thrash tiles also countdowns? Can't tell if the green's 1 turn CD is separate from those.

Kolence

Is the CD tile and tentacle the same thing? 

jsmjsmjsm00

Well given that Gargantos seems like a great character, how do people feel about Moon Knight and Crystal as LL partners? Worth pulling for? 

IceIX

Kolence said:

Is the CD tile and tentacle the same thing? 

Yes, same thing. That being said, his tile icon is a tentacle, so there's that too.

Kolence

Oh, nice! Well, His blue alone makes him interesting then, and Hawkeye a bit more valuable overall now.  

Davidk777

@IcelX

When will Brand leave and Moonknight enter LL

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Davidk777 said:

@IcelX

When will Brand leave and Moonknight enter LL

I saw someone write on the MK forum post it was May 2nd. I’m not allowed to comment about them further as it violates community guidelines.

shardwick

Davidk777 said:

@IcelX

When will Brand leave and Moonknight enter LL

Not soon enough.

ThaRoadWarrior

Dang it, now I need some other hilarious non-Omega Red character to guess until this war stops and I can go back to guessing Omega Red lol. 

Vhailorx

Numbers are certainly a bit higher than even my optimistic projections. Doing over 36k each turn with HE does sound interesting, but i don't think it will hold a candle to SC who can do 100k+ for 1ap or less when he gets going. And can spam the attack to go winfinite.

Seems like he might be a decent defensive scarecrow though.

wymtime

numb numbers are interesting.  He is expensive, but paired with Hawkeye might be interesting. Getting 3 Thrash tiles out has the potential to do 14k damage per turn.  Blue at 30 AP will do 128K damage.  Black by default will go to level 3 and will be situational.  I almost wish this was a repeater tile.  Every turn or every 2 turns reduce and destroy.

he will be really good with Hawkeye but on his own I don’t see him as very good

Vhailorx

wymtime said:

numb numbers are interesting.  He is expensive, but paired with Hawkeye might be interesting. Getting 3 Thrash tiles out has the potential to do 14k damage per turn.  Blue at 30 AP will do 128K damage.  Black by default will go to level 3 and will be situational.  I almost wish this was a repeater tile.  Every turn or every 2 turns reduce and destroy.

he will be really good with Hawkeye but on his own I don’t see him as very good

I mostly agree, but don't think the high cap amount for blue at 30ap is relevant, since any strategy that requires collecting 30 blue is basically a losing strategy.  Even HE/coulson  which is just about the most efficient AP currently in the game (can easily do 30+ blue and 20+ red turn when maxed) is too slow for competitive pve and pvp. 

So even though 4.2k/ap is much higher than expected, it's only relevant if you can spam it a lot (which the full drain prevents). And the  Since 9x blue will typically mean 3x cds out at all times, and since HE will generate 9x blue ap for 3 cds resolving, garg should be casting blue every turn for ~37k and resolving 3x cds for another ~14.2k.  That's less damage output than a 10 combo SC, but it's more or less self sustaining after the first 9 blue. On paper that is a very good scarecrow.  But the AI may still **** it up by casting HE'S blue over garg's.

HoundofShadow

Has that happened before? When I play against BRB/Polaris and they have at least 7 blue aps, Polaris always fire her blue without fail. However, if they have 6 blue aps, then it's possible BRB will fire his blue. With an almost guaranteed 9 blue aps per turn, it's hard to imagine AI will fire Hawkeye's 5 blue ap power. And we've not included cd from Hawkeye's red or from other characters. 9 blue aps and 6 red aps are the bare minimum ap gained via cds for most of the matches.

I think it's impossible to beat the damage with SC. With 10 Combo Rings, his match damage increases by ~5 times. On top of that, the critical multiplier and charged tile mutiplier are 4.5x and 3x respectively. In total, SC has a damage multiplier of 67.5x or 6750%. Shuma has a maximum multiplier of 2.3x or 233%. I'm not sure if the dev will create a character in the future that will top SC's damage because his ability to do more than 1 million damage in one or two crit match is already an overkill in the game.

If 5* boost doesn't exist in pvps, Hawkeye/Shuma will be another common team you see along Colossus/Wanda, Polaris/BRB etc. But they'll definitely start making more appearances in shield sim in the future. Look out for Deadpool, Gertrudes (possibly) or Coulson as a cheap third cd spammer. However, I still love my Echo as a third for control.

I was talking about how Spiderman Peter Parker can be a good 3rd wildcard with his blue teamstun and red critical, and the dev has to include him in this store. Shuma has a pretty good crit multiplier of 4x, the third highest in the game. 

It's a shame I can only champ Shuma in August.

bbigler

Wow.  I’m glad to see that people are excited.  His numbers are much higher than i expected; he’s not OP but certainly a meta contender with Hawkeye as a partner.  Let’s break this down per power: 

Green Passive: 1-turn CD tile that either deals 4700+ or drains 1 AP.  As the battle progresses, this will drain more often and damage less.  But it’s a defensive deterrent, which always helps.  If you combine this with Abby, then the AP drain can be a real suppressor and the damage can happen more often.  Combine this power with Hawkeye, and you have an AP engine.  And of course, he’ll create 2 CD tiles per turn when invisible.  That’s a serious engine.  

8 Black: Reduce 2 enemy SAPs by 356 (plus 356 for each CD tile above, then destroy all enemy SAPs below 356 and deal 5800+ per tile while gaining AP.  I don’t like the low strength threshold, but the rest of this power is great.  It should normally deal 11,600+ dmg, but under the right conditions (Polaris spamming), then this becomes a big nuke.  You could partner with Carnage to purposely produce weak enemy specials just to blow them up for 23,000 or more dmg.  The AP gain from the tile destruction is just gravy.  

9 Blue: Drain all blue AP and deal 4275 per AP, then go invisible for 3 turns.  I’m 99.9% certain that this is THE HIGHEST direct dmg per AP in the tier!  I’m not counting passives, winfinites or other combos, but single active powers. So, this is a serious nuke and if you want to exploit it, then you need a blue AP engine.  4* players can use Vulture, but 5* players have the perfect partner in Hawkeye.  

”Gargantos” + Hawkeye: First, Hawkeye fortifies CD tiles, then produces 3 Blue & 2 Red per CD tile reaching 0.  The AP quickly comes in, then with matching or AP boosts, Gargantos can nuke someone and go invisible on turn 3.  Then the AP comes in twice as fast.  Combine with Hawkeye’s Red CD tiles and you could passively get 9 Blue & 6 Red per turn.  Nuke, nuke, nuke until everyone’s down. If you need to stun, then Hawkeye can do that with his 1st arrow.  Plus, you get extra dmg from his passive and Hawkeye’s Red CD tiles.  You could even afford to collect Black. It’s a perfect 2 person team and would even do well on defense.  Gargantos brings something to the old Hawkeye-Coulson combo that they are lacking…….some big damage.  

Overall, I see him as a meta contender.  We won’t know for sure until months later, but he has great potential.  Even alone, he’s a threat.  Given that Crystal and Gargantos will be in Latest at the same time, I recommend to all new players to save and pull for that pool.  

bbigler

By the way, let’s stop comparing damage output to Shang since he can go winfinite, which is basically infinite dmg/AP.  Plus, he can do the biggest hits in the game, and he can fully heal each battle.  There’s no way to top infinite dmg, so it’s pointless to compare.  Instead, Look at a character’s pros and cons: 

Shang: 
Pros - solo winfinite combo = infinite dmg
        - critical hits are a 1-shot kill (for speed)
        - has many good partner combos
        - true heals with no extra effort
        - board shake & color control

Cons - struggles against match dmg reductions
         - takes time to play his strategy
         - low health pool
         - no direct defense (stuns, removing enemy specials, draining AP, reducing dmg)

Gargantos: 
Pros - passive damage or AP draining
        - removes enemy SAPs while doing a good hit
        - Blue nuke that could 1-shot kill
        - Defensive invisibility power
        - high health pool

Cons - takes many turns to play his strategy
         - black power may not be applicable
         - only has a few ideal partners
         - doesn’t have the proper comic name because of licensing 

fight4thedream

Yes, it seems Gargantos (Shuma Gorath) will be a great addition to the 5* tier. While the jury is still out on how well he will perform in pick 2, he really helps lift up a few other 5* characters in pick 3, notably Hawkeye, Abigail Brand and Odin. 

I am particularly curious about how well a Gargantos, Hawkeye, Odin team will work. Having Odin on the team will help ensure that neither Hawkeye or Gargantos is downed too quickly so they have time to set up and get going. Additionally, if Hawkeye's passive is fortifying Gargantos tentacle tiles, Odin will get the 20% damage reduction for each different color fortified tile. 

There is real potential for 100% damage reduction but that all hinges on Hawkeye's passive fortifying Gargantos CD before it expires and Hawkeye and Gargantos tanking. 

Obviously, this team will be susceptible to iHulk/Okoye and Apoc/BRB but overall should be a fun team to use. 

HoundofShadow

I was thinking of winfinite with Eddie Brock and 4* Dr Ock using his black destruction but it's not possible for this team, given the randomness. However, now that his black gains aps for destruction of enemy SAP tiles, this opens the door to future winfinite.

Echo/MODOK is a winfinite pair themselves, but I don't mind trying Gargantos with this team, despite the overlap in black. It could be interesting but it's a little difficult to visualise how it will play out.

Coulson can steal enemy aps and he's able to steal all enemies ap easily. Unfortunately, none of them can stun.  I know there's overlap in blue but when you are swimming in blue aps, it's not a big deal.

His pick-2 teammates are limited for now, but pick-3 opens up tons of (strong and cheap red power) potentials. When 9 blue/6 red aps start rolling every turn, it's going to be sick. All you need is to make one red match-3 and you will be able to fire Apocalypse's red consecutively for at least the next 3 turn without fail. With 2 match-3, it's 6 turns of Apocalypse's red without fail. I don't think there's any teammates that allows Apocalypse to fire his red consecutively for the next 3-6 turns. You can replace Apocalypse with any character that has strong and cheap red.

Hopefully, Thanos changes his mind and makes videos for Gargantos.