SCL10 Mission Changes

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Comments

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    krakenoon said:
    I would like to once again thank the devs for providing this information to us.

     I have yet to unlock SCL10, but this concerns me as (judging from the response here) I expect to see even more tier 5 players in SCL7-9. It’s already hard enough to get T10 placement & with more vets punching down, meaningful placement may become all but impossible for younger rosters. I fully expect T50 in all events to be reserved for vets & whales until there is a good enough reason for players to punch in their proper weight classes.

    Please fix this.

    But then, if they had to tune down the rewards, they would have to announce a straight rewards nerf with no other news to obfuscate it. . .
  • Akroma
    Akroma Posts: 77 Match Maker
    HoundofShadow said:
    The tradeoff for the supposed Saved Team has already been implemented: fewer support of different screensize.

    Saved Team is a UI change, and it's not something that affects the time/effort to rewards ratio. So, I won't be worried about reward nerf due to UI change. There are definitely many other features added (like bonus hero, shards, CP etc) after 2014, but I think the principle behind managing the economy wouldn't deviate too much.

    Marvel Puzzle Quest’s economy is pretty similar to the standard dual-currency free to play games. The two currencies in Marvel Puzzle Quest are:
    • Iso-8, which is essential XP that levels up characters. The currency scales a bit as players progress, but we attempt to peg this at a constant inflow per minute played. It’s a classic soft currency.
    • Hero Points, which are our hard currency. But unlike most free-to-play games, we’re pretty liberal in giving them out. We aim to regulate the inflow of these into the economy by engagement — regular daily play.



    hi :) sorry to bother you. whats that saved team feature? a new one coming? thanks :D
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,470 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    The tradeoff for the supposed Saved Team has already been implemented: fewer support of different screensize.

    Saved Team is a UI change, and it's not something that affects the time/effort to rewards ratio. So, I won't be worried about reward nerf due to UI change. There are definitely many other features added (like bonus hero, shards, CP etc) after 2014, but I think the principle behind managing the economy wouldn't deviate too much.

    Hard disagree on the bolded text there. The time it takes to dig 4ocket/g4mora/juggernaut out of my roster, then swap to Okoye/iHulk/Apocalypse for hard clears in PVE, is enough given the sheer volume of characters who sort by level then name rather than alphabetical or star tier or whatever in the mission selecting screen, that I just use Okoye/iHulk/Apocalypse from start and hope hulk doesn't die too many times to cost me a health pack in the easy nodes. that rocket/juggernaut team can end an easy match on swipe 1, iHulk will end it on turn 2 generally, and that's a non-zero match length increase that i'd avoid if I could have even 2 saved pre-set teams.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,847 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    The tradeoff for the supposed Saved Team has already been implemented: fewer support of different screensize.

    Saved Team is a UI change, and it's not something that affects the time/effort to rewards ratio. So, I won't be worried about reward nerf due to UI change. There are definitely many other features added (like bonus hero, shards, CP etc) after 2014, but I think the principle behind managing the economy wouldn't deviate too much.

    Marvel Puzzle Quest’s economy is pretty similar to the standard dual-currency free to play games. The two currencies in Marvel Puzzle Quest are:
    • Iso-8, which is essential XP that levels up characters. The currency scales a bit as players progress, but we attempt to peg this at a constant inflow per minute played. It’s a classic soft currency.
    • Hero Points, which are our hard currency. But unlike most free-to-play games, we’re pretty liberal in giving them out. We aim to regulate the inflow of these into the economy by engagement — regular daily play.



    I was going to say it's kind of silly to pull out a 6 year old interview and attempt to discern what the developer's current approach is.  Especially when they have specifically reduced HP rewards this year.

    But maybe it's relevant since the person interviewed recently became a co-owner once again after being gone for several years.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    The tradeoff for the supposed Saved Team has already been implemented: fewer support of different screensize.

    Saved Team is a UI change, and it's not something that affects the time/effort to rewards ratio. So, I won't be worried about reward nerf due to UI change. There are definitely many other features added (like bonus hero, shards, CP etc) after 2014, but I think the principle behind managing the economy wouldn't deviate too much.

    Marvel Puzzle Quest’s economy is pretty similar to the standard dual-currency free to play games. The two currencies in Marvel Puzzle Quest are:
    • Iso-8, which is essential XP that levels up characters. The currency scales a bit as players progress, but we attempt to peg this at a constant inflow per minute played. It’s a classic soft currency.
    • Hero Points, which are our hard currency. But unlike most free-to-play games, we’re pretty liberal in giving them out. We aim to regulate the inflow of these into the economy by engagement — regular daily play.



    I was going to say it's kind of silly to pull out a 6 year old interview and attempt to discern what the developer's current approach is.  Especially when they have specifically reduced HP rewards this year.

    But maybe it's relevant since the person interviewed recently became a co-owner once again after being gone for several years.

    It's not quite useless, since we can assume these statements were accurate/honest at the time, and the person who made the statements is still a presumably influential person at demi.  But 6 years is a long time and both MPQ and the mobile gaming landscape have changed massively since this interview.  I don't think we will get much insight by scrutinizing such stale data.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,847 Chairperson of the Boards
    Based on sub 1, you can get about 3100 more points playing in 10 over playing in 9 if you do optimal play and the 3x grind.

    It seems interesting and you can possibly hit progression even earlier than they say, since the progression score target is the same for all SCLs.  A progression player could possibly skip 2 full days of play if they enter SCL10 in the last 2 subs.  We will have to see.

    I don't know if that's intended or they did bad math when setting up the nodes.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,470 Chairperson of the Boards
    as a 4x-per-node progression-only player, I'm very leery of trusting the new points math honestly. Even now there are one or two events with jacked up points, i think DP vs MPQ maybe?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    Based on sub 1, you can get about 3100 more points playing in 10 over playing in 9 if you do optimal play and the 3x grind.

    It seems interesting and you can possibly hit progression even earlier than they say, since the progression score target is the same for all SCLs.  A progression player could possibly skip 2 full days of play if they enter SCL10 in the last 2 subs.  We will have to see.

    I don't know if that's intended or they did bad math when setting up the nodes.

    Interesting, I generally try to the catch the second bracket in slice 1/5.10, which often means skipping the first day.  So if the new scoring system makes max prog easier for late starters, that would be a significant quality of life improvement for the few dozen of us to whom it would matter.  But it would also be something that I would not expect to see persist in any way.  Demi wants daily play, so anything that facilitates playing only 2 of every 4 days is not going to make them happy.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I see where you are coming from because I'm also experiencing this. The effort in this case is confined to selecting characters, rather than gaining resources directly. The effort to rewards ratio I'm referring to is along the line of number of battles needed to get x rewards. In this change, the effort needed has been reduced from 7 clears to 6 clears.

    The Saved Team feature is an assumption, based on the hints Paige gave during the livestream. It's coming soon in the near future.

    As for getting top placements, Juggernaut/R4G and GotG, America Chavez and Karnak will do most of the job in SCL 7 and SCL 8. I've been getting top 10 consistently without fail. So, the fear that young roster can never compete to get top in SCL 7 is a myth.

    Keep your timing to around 25 mins and it's almost a guaranteed top 10. I think SCL 6/7 belongs to the young rosters, while SCL 8 is for those transitioning to 5* land and SCL 9 is for 5* players. 

    However, your definition of young rosters might differ from mine. IMO, 3* players should just stick to SCL 6 and young 4* players should stick to SCL 7 if they are competing for top 10 placements.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    as a 4x-per-node progression-only player, I'm very leery of trusting the new points math honestly. Even now there are one or two events with jacked up points, i think DP vs MPQ maybe?

    Isn't dp v mpq is the 'jacked-down' points event where playing straight 4/6 did not quite get you to max prog. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2020
    The interview might be six years old, but if you were to look at their past actions and way of making tradeoffs, those principles still hold true. For example, look at Introducing... Events, it's so easy to win and that's why only 15 4*/5* shards are rewarded. A lot of players were expecting 50/100 shards for that kind of effort. Even revamped Shield Training gave only 200 4* shards instead of 400 due to ease of access and more easier nodes to win.
  • Pongie
    Pongie Posts: 1,412 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    Pongie said:
    bluewolf said:
    LucasRaven said:
    killercool said:
    Sounds like a positive change.  To clarify - optimal play is now 3 initial clears, followed by 3 clears at the end, correct?

    Am I the only one that understood that it's 3 and 1? 
    For progression.  You can grind past the 1 clear for more points if you want.  
    The timing of that last clear will matter too. Before it didn’t since the 4th clear was still full points. Now the 4th is reduced and full progression may need a 5th clear. That means progression players will need to do 5 clears instead of 4 now. Unless max progression is adjusted to 3 clears. That will cause more issues for alliance since scl10 will score less than lower scl. Or will the points be increased so only 3 clears are required for max progress?
    The general rule as far as progression seems to be hitting nodes at full points (4X in everything up to now) and then one more hit immediately (so another hit at 2/3 full value), with the 5E in 7/8/9 and the CN in 10 being "extra" points.

    As long as the initial node points are adjusted up accordingly from SCL9 values, then you should still hit progression with the 3 initials plus 1 more hit whenever you want.

    I’ve being doing 4x clears only in scl10. The extra points from the 5e node is roughly equivalent  to the 5th clear without the 5e. If max progress is staying the same, and the nodes lose their values immediately after the 3rd clear, the 4th won’t have enough to reach progression. The only way to make it work is to increase all the nodes values by a third in scl10. 3 hits is then equivalent to 4 hits before. Actually, having it this way will mean those who grind in scl10 will have more points and maybe be competitive with lower scl. Takes more time to clear/grind but there are more points to even it out. 
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 824 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    I think he missed out playing the revamped FfW. He's still in 2018.  :D
    Nah, just PTSD from when it was first introduced so now even the mention of the name brings back horrible memories. (I do have PTSD, but it's not from FFW.)

    I proposed a change to the nodes/rewards, etc. back in May. Seems they partly implemented my idea. Partly. Barely at all, really.

    I proposed reducing the grind to 2-3 hits per node at the start, and 1-2 hits during final clears.

    As many of the veteran players have already said in here, reducing clears from 4 & 3 to 3 & 3 will be a very small time saving measure.

    As a 5-star player and someone who has played CL10 on more than a few occasions, it's easily double the time investment for me over CL9. CL10 is a little easier now that I have a champion Bobby for the murder node, but CL10 is still a big time sink compared to CL9, and it all stems from the final Hard node, the murder node, and the 5E node. I can be crushing my initial clears, but when I got to those three nodes it slows right down. There will be a small time saving during initial clears, but final clears will still be a hell of a grind.

    If the team really was concerned about how long we're playing their game and were really serious about making real quality-of-life improvements to the game, they would make serious changes. This change is nothing.
  • RentedPanda
    RentedPanda Posts: 95 Match Maker
    DAZ0273 said:
    I'm struggling to see the incentive myself and moving the 4* cover seems to me to be the opposite of encouraging more players to try and "punch up". I'm guessing too many players are just playing to that cover and then not bothering to play more. I admit that was my plan this event on my second ever visit to SCL10 but I ended up doing as much as I could manage including some clears of the 5E with my very weak Banner. But it seems clear that my plan was rumbled and the Devs have moved to foil a repeat! Sorry forum!
    Can't see much incentive to try again though unless it is one of my high covered 5* featured. With 90 gazillion 4* characters in game, it seems truly weird that the Devs would fret over having a fairly low hanging fruit but they have the data I guess.
    But if the changes helps out the existing SCL10 dudes and dudesses then cool.
    I  use scl 10 in this way, too.  I figured I  would give it a try today, I might miss an -Venom cover, but I will survive.  I got 2720 points doing the entry node on the main page and the 3 trivial nodes 3 times.  I need to get to 20k points by the end, an average of 5k per day.  Assuming a usual point increase per day, I expect it is doable doing just trivial nodes (plus I can still do #4 at reduced points).  I'll do more this time, as with Karnak boosted I should be able to do a few more nodes each day without trouble, but it looks like I can still slack my way to the free 4 star by using scl10.  Hope others find this useful
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    @HoundofShadow

    I think you misunderstood. The point is there are already players who are playing below their level and if you can hit T10 consistently, that’s great for you. Maybe you have a little better roster having played longer, I don’t know. I do know that if players don’t like the change they will complain and either quit or continue playing where they usually do. I also know that as long as the progression/placement reward is for a lackluster 5 star, people will be enticed to play 9 just because.

    The point is that while players should be able to play in whatever SCL they want, it’s clear that there is more incentive to punch down than play at level. If they get SCL10 right, there should be a migration effect in 9, possibly 8, but unless you are trying to maximize your CP gain, there’s no incentive to move from 7 to 8 unless you can place well enough for whatever end placement reward (if you find it desirable).

    My argument is that there should be a steep cost for punching down primarily in missed rewards.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Getting top placements are about three things:

    1) having the meta team (s)
    2) having the essential characters
    3) making matches quickly

    I have over 80 4* champed but I rely on about 6 characters for top 10 placements with majority of the matches won with Juggernaut/R4G/GotG.

    The incentive is lesser time needed to play the game. People punch down due to time available in their life and their perceived ROI. These are subjective. The value of something is in the eye of the beholder. 

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards
     I like the thought, but isn't the most time-consuming part of the grind the 3 clears when the nodes hit max level? This eliminates one of the easy clears. Does that really accomplish the stated goal?
    I view this as a positive change, but will still plant my flag in SCL9.

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