Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

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  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    jp1 said:
    That said, I’m just as frustrated as anyone, especially with HammerCap.
    Don't know about different time slices, but I'm seeing way less of him in regular pvp - I know how to deal with him and it normally involves Bishop and Strange. Maybe the meta is moving past him. 

    Bishop on the other hand, he's still plenty represented alongside BRB, and way more tricksy for me to deal with. 
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,973 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    The rockett said:
    @IceIX can we please close this thread?   It has been almost 2 
    months with no action on this.  This thread should be deemed trolling and closed by the mod team.   If the dev team cannot see the Bishop and Hammer Cap need to be looked at ASAP then I have no idea what to say.  

    @fight4thedream can this be closed due to trolling?  Isn’t 2 months enough?  Just curious per the rules of the forums. 
    I have reached out to the forum administrator team to see what they wish to do with this thread. I'm afraid beyond that there's not much else I can do at the moment. 
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    This sub node with boss Phoenix is a really great example of rebuilding that would truly benefit the older 5*’s.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Glockoma said:
    This sub node with boss Phoenix is a really great example of rebuilding that would truly benefit the older 5*’s.

    What I would like to see even more that that is reevaluating of 5* match damage and HP. Possibly to the point when 270 lv 1 cover 5* have same math damage as 4* 270 lv champion. Yes, that is a dream and wont happen but at leeast same dmg and hp pools would be nice.

    With HP like any other * lv so very low, low, average, high and very high bracets. As a example of 3*:

    very low: Hood
    low: Strang3
    average: Spid3r-Man
    high Colossus
    very high Hulk

  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    jp1 said:
    The rockett said:
    @IceIX can we please close this thread?   It has been almost 2 
    months with no action on this.  This thread should be deemed trolling and closed by the mod team.   If the dev team cannot see the Bishop and Hammer Cap need to be looked at ASAP then I have no idea what to say.  

    @fight4thedream can this be closed due to trolling?  Isn’t 2 months enough?  Just curious per the rules of the forums. 
    Why close it? Just because it has been 2 months? It clearly states in the first post not to expect any action any time soon, but shutting down the small attempts they make to listen to community feedback seems like it has no upside. 

    The bigger the thread gets, the more of a “problem” they can see rebalancing is. I don’t think it’s fair to assume they aren’t reading just because they aren’t doing anything yet. 

    That said, I’m just as frustrated as anyone, especially with HammerCap.
    My point is that Bishop was released in Nov 2019.  It was said right from the start that he was broken. It is now 4 months later and nothing has been done.  So either he is working as intended or they don’t care.  

    To ask the community that has been talking about bishop, even more after BRB got released, and Hammer cap about feedback on character balances and don’t say anything for 2 months is disingenuous on their part.  They know bishop is broken. They know hammer is broken.  Just don’t get why they cannot do anything about it.  
  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    The rockett said:
    jp1 said:
    ,,,
    My point is that Bishop was released in Nov 2019.  It was said right from the start that he was broken. It is now 4 months later and nothing has been done.  So either he is working as intended or they don’t care.  

    To ask the community that has been talking about bishop, even more after BRB got released, and Hammer cap about feedback on character balances and don’t say anything for 2 months is disingenuous on their part.  They know bishop is broken. They know hammer is broken.  Just don’t get why they cannot do anything about it.  
    November 2018, and 16 months sadly.  By 11/2019 we had already endured that catastrophe of an anniversary where Bishop was boosted 4 events in a row, as well as produced a worthy clone of himself.  

    It really feels like this was just put out there as a disingenuous tease that they COULD do something. Like the whole "soon" PR attempt when they tried to do damage control after the bad anniversary.  There was already a 30 page thread complaining about Bishop that ran its course.  
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    Vins2 said:
    The rockett said:
    jp1 said:
    ,,,
    My point is that Bishop was released in Nov 2019.  It was said right from the start that he was broken. It is now 4 months later and nothing has been done.  So either he is working as intended or they don’t care.  

    To ask the community that has been talking about bishop, even more after BRB got released, and Hammer cap about feedback on character balances and don’t say anything for 2 months is disingenuous on their part.  They know bishop is broken. They know hammer is broken.  Just don’t get why they cannot do anything about it.  
    November 2018, and 16 months sadly.  By 11/2019 we had already endured that catastrophe of an anniversary where Bishop was boosted 4 events in a row, as well as produced a worthy clone of himself.  

    It really feels like this was just put out there as a disingenuous tease that they COULD do something. Like the whole "soon" PR attempt when they tried to do damage control after the bad anniversary.  There was already a 30 page thread complaining about Bishop that ran its course.  
    The Bishops will continue until morale improves.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Vins2 said:
    The rockett said:
    jp1 said:
    ,,,
    My point is that Bishop was released in Nov 2019.  It was said right from the start that he was broken. It is now 4 months later and nothing has been done.  So either he is working as intended or they don’t care.  

    To ask the community that has been talking about bishop, even more after BRB got released, and Hammer cap about feedback on character balances and don’t say anything for 2 months is disingenuous on their part.  They know bishop is broken. They know hammer is broken.  Just don’t get why they cannot do anything about it.  
    November 2018, and 16 months sadly.  By 11/2019 we had already endured that catastrophe of an anniversary where Bishop was boosted 4 events in a row, as well as produced a worthy clone of himself.  

    It really feels like this was just put out there as a disingenuous tease that they COULD do something. Like the whole "soon" PR attempt when they tried to do damage control after the bad anniversary.  There was already a 30 page thread complaining about Bishop that ran its course.  
    Whoops. Sorry. 
  • RentedPanda
    RentedPanda Posts: 95 Match Maker
    I think I have posted it before, but I am a 4 star player, and use bishop with DP and Valkyrie for probably 20 close to a quarter or third of my wins in sim.  I use Gritturnaut for a good third or more.  Both these teams get beat regularly,  it seems, by other 4 stars.  I understand bishop is a problem for 5 star play but he is a huge plus for my qol in 4 star land.  Without him I doubt I get to 75 in sim.  I do use Kravertooth to counter easy grockets but I have not been as successful against the many gritty juggs teams, where bishop and DP cleans up.  Just want to reiterate that for some of us, depending on level of play (casual 4 star for me) he is just another part of the circle of life, and much more of a help than a problem.  Again, I get that this seems to be a totally different experience for 5 stars and those who are serious about placement.  If there is a change, I hope it helps us all, or at least doesn't remove one of my best tools for sim wins.
  • RentedPanda
    RentedPanda Posts: 95 Match Maker
    In terms of characters who need to be buffed, I would like to submit Maria Hill for consideration...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    RentedPanda said:
    I think I have posted it before, but I am a 4 star player, and use bishop with DP and Valkyrie for probably 20 close to a quarter or third of my wins in sim.  I use Gritturnaut for a good third or more.  Both these teams get beat regularly,  it seems, by other 4 stars.  I understand bishop is a problem for 5 star play but he is a huge plus for my qol in 4 star land.  Without him I doubt I get to 75 in sim.  I do use Kravertooth to counter easy grockets but I have not been as successful against the many gritty juggs teams, where bishop and DP cleans up.  Just want to reiterate that for some of us, depending on level of play (casual 4 star for me) he is just another part of the circle of life, and much more of a help than a problem.  Again, I get that this seems to be a totally different experience for 5 stars and those who are serious about placement.  If there is a change, I hope it helps us all, or at least doesn't remove one of my best tools for sim wins.
    Thank you for offering a solid argument for the reason that Bishop remains the same in game for the past 16 months.

    The fix should have been made pre-release but here we are.  Maybe they could tweak him so he only responds to Strike dmg or something, so you can use Bishop vs Rocket but all the 5's can just trash him.

    SO MANY GOOD IDEAS HAVE BEEN PROPOSED.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Well the flip side is that Bishop has survived in game 16 months and despite all the complaints the Apocalypse hasn't happened...so maybe the Devs really don't see eye to eye with the players on him being a problem? Dunno - some feedback would be great but...

    As a matter of interest how long between Gambit being in game and his final nerf? He went through what was it 2 "rebalances"? Was that longer than 16 months?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    HAS the apocalypse not happened? We're starting to get pretty OVERCLOCKED! by cronagedden here in the states...
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Apocalypse would be right behind that. He likes it when the herd gets thinned. We already have Pestilence (Covid-19), Famine (Dude, where is the pasta?!?!?) and War (Dude! GIVE ME THAT PASTA!) and of course sadly death.

    It was probably just as well they didn't run X-Men vs Apocalypse after all - Apocalypse gonna win this time.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    DAZ0273 said:
    Well the flip side is that Bishop has survived in game 16 months and despite all the complaints the Apocalypse hasn't happened...so maybe the Devs really don't see eye to eye with the players on him being a problem? Dunno - some feedback would be great but...

    As a matter of interest how long between Gambit being in game and his final nerf? He went through what was it 2 "rebalances"? Was that longer than 16 months?
    I'd have to really dig through the forums to find the exact dates, but if my memory serves correctly, he was released in mid to late October in 2017. His first rebalance happened before the end of that year I'm pretty sure. His second rebalance (aka the actual nerf) was sometime in the first quarter of 2018, I think not long after he left Latest. I distinctly remember getting him covered and enough ISO to champ him and enjoy him for about two weeks before he was nerfed. 

    EDIT: For clarification, at that stage in the game I was just barely getting each 5* champed before they left Latest. Coupled with the ISO crunch of trying to finish off my backlog of 4*s that usually had 14th covers dying on the vine (pre-saved covers, aka The Dark Times), my 5*s weren't always necessarily champed as soon as they were covered.

    I seem to recall having both Gambit and Thor covered but not champed, and made it a priority to champ both of them once Gambit's actual nerf was announced, so I could enjoy him at least a little before the end. The more I think about it, it might have been more like second quarter 2018 when he was nerfed. END EDIT

    At any rate, definitely much, much less than 16 months, that's for sure. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Whilst I never ever got his black cover I seem to remember the main argument was that PvP was literally reduced to have Gambit or not. So it was as much a supply/access to thing as it was a "he sure is broken". We are not there with Bishop yet but anybody who even remotely plays SHIELD Sim know that he along with some other usual suspect become a barrier to progress at some point late in the climb. I cannot say, with all honesty, that I find him too often in Pick 2 PvP but it does happen.

    I just wonder if they feel that having Bishop is in part also the solution to fighting Bishop and obtaining Bishop is a far more likely proposition than obtaining Gambit was. Ergo to the Devs: Bishop is fine. Clearly he is broken but it must, after all this time be a possibility that the Devs, using whatever metrics they claim needs to apply, just don't agree with players that Bishop needs a nerf, let alone a very urgent one.

    Even so, if what Darth DeVo says above is true then they are surely way past the mark where they are taking players feedback seriously on this problem it seems. 16 months is a long time.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    DAZ0273 said:
    Whilst I never ever got his black cover I seem to remember the main argument was that PvP was literally reduced to have Gambit or not. So it was as much a supply/access to thing as it was a "he sure is broken". We are not there with Bishop yet but anybody who even remotely plays SHIELD Sim know that he along with some other usual suspect become a barrier to progress at some point late in the climb. I cannot say, with all honesty, that I find him too often in Pick 2 PvP but it does happen.

    I just wonder if they feel that having Bishop is in part also the solution to fighting Bishop and obtaining Bishop is a far more likely proposition than obtaining Gambit was. Ergo to the Devs: Bishop is fine. Clearly he is broken but it must, after all this time be a possibility that the Devs, using whatever metrics they claim needs to apply, just don't agree with players that Bishop needs a nerf, let alone a very urgent one.

    Even so, if what Darth DeVo says above is true then they are surely way past the mark where they are taking players feedback seriously on this problem it seems. 16 months is a long time.
    It is also possible, and this is purely speculation on my part, that back in 2017 when Gambit was nerfed they had either more people working on re-balancing characters or had a bigger priority on rebalancing.  (I remember character re balances used to be a fairly common and ongoing thing: Gambit, carnage, TE Hulk, 3* spiderman, Mr fantastic, Kinpin to name a few) 

    It could just be that they switched priorities and/or have less people dedicating time to re-balance characters
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    That seems a very real possibility also.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Balance is fine right now
    I dont know the tier you are playing, but I usually fight against bishops level 320 who are 25k health. 
    Thats a really lot of investment here. I dont think like a solid argument to say nerf him because I have trouble with him. 
    Not when he is here for more than a year.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Hey post is back up.  So....Bishop...

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