Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

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  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Bad said:
    Right now 60% of pvp teams are thorokoye and 40% gritty, bishop or worthy. 
    Personally I like to fight them for to add some variation. Or some excitement and gamble if you consider so.
    Nerf bishop and worthy and there will be only thorokoye and gritty teams. The same battle over and over.
    No much strategy nor smart play there. Making pay to win the only strategy for sure.

    Tons of people managed to get high level characters of the latest characters recently, so the "variation" is really different than a couple months ago!

    In the sense that the new 5*'s really made everything else obsolete. Sure there are BetaBishops floating everywhere and as someone with an early 370, I'm all in on the Nerf Bishop bandwagon - but a Bishop nerf isn't making Beta go anywhere.

    I'd say 60% of non-bishop PVP teams are now BRB/Kitty BRB/PX PX/Carnage PX/Ice...which goes to the OP point. Thorkoye and Gritty are obsolete, just as they made teams obsolete that came before them. Either newer characters need a power boost to make them worth using (which many here seem to prefer on current poll results) or some less desirable option needs to happen (nerfs or leaving as-is).
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Looks like we are starting to see some adjustments at least - the release note about PunMax getting a fix is an interesting place to start. I wonder if he'll launch with a System Reboot the way we used to see on 4* rebalance events?
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Looks like we are starting to see some adjustments at least - the release note about PunMax getting a fix is an interesting place to start. I wonder if he'll launch with a System Reboot the way we used to see on 4* rebalance events?
    The PunMax thing seems much more like a fix to unintended implementation vs a rebalance.

    The Army of One power makes some very small strike tiles.  Ex:  My L343 creates 2 strike tiles of strength 60 (now) and then does 9000 dmg plus 1571 dmg for every strike tile on the board.  This is with 5 covers on black.

    Before the fix, the 3 cover strike tile strength matched the 1 cover strength which was a 30 strength strike tile.  So the strengths in order of 1/2/3/4/5 were 30/60/30/60/60.  Which is kind of weird, maybe it was intended design back when they used to do stuff like that.  Anyway now it's 30/60/60/60/60.

    I would not be terribly surprised if the Friday 4-Start Bundle is for PunMax, as I doubt they will bother with System Reboot now that shards and more covers come your way just from playing.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    The size of those strikes seems laughable in the face of modern releases. My lvl 284 is doing 19/38
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    OJSP said:
    bluewolf said:
    So the strengths in order of 1/2/3/4/5 were 30/60/30/60/60.  Which is kind of weird, maybe it was intended design back when they used to do stuff like that.  Anyway now it's 30/60/60/60/60.
    At 3 covers it used to make 2 strike tiles with the strength value of 1 cover. So, the total value of the strike tiles equaled the value at 2 covers, but less likely to be matched away in 1 turn. So, in your example, the total strengths of the strike tiles were 30/60/60/120/120. Now they are 30/60/120/120/120
    Ah, good point.  So it is the smallest of buffs.  It literally would make no difference to anyone when considering to run him or not.  The point of the strike tiles obviously is to enhance the dmg (the extra packets per strike tile) hence why they are so small.

    This still seems much more like a "hey this is weird/bugged" fix vs a "we should rebalance Pun Max so people like him more" change.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    They once told us that Pun Max was the least used 4* in the game. With the existence of Talos I find it hard to believe that is still true but if it is maybe they are starting from the bottom and gonna work upwards?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I don't think that tweak is going to make a difference on my own usage lol; but awesome that it's a tweak, and not a scorched earth overhaul. Rebalances over reworks seems generally desirable.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I think Frank has a bad rep, he is quite fun to use but yeah, he aint no Juggernaut or anything.
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I enjoyed using him when he was featured in the behemoth burrito (or whatever that node is called) the other day. On the other hand, when I’m forced to is the only time I use him so...
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Not really sure what to say here. Many of the old 're-balances' were pretty mixed-bag as the devs obviously felt that the characters were balanced as they were, we just didn't "like" them, so they changed a lot (as much as they could while keeping the animations, I don't doubt) and in many cases made the character not the "same" (or in the case of Kingpin, just bad). It ended up feeling more like a "let's see if they like this version" more than a buff or rebalance.

    I guess what I'm really saying is I really wouldn't mind if you guys had a look at some really under-tuned (under-used, I guess) characters and just bring them up a bit without taking anything away. If your budget says the character is fine, but no one uses them, then I'm sorry, your budget for that particular combination is incorrect, or, has 'correctly' balanced a character that isn't fun to play.

    Edit: Also, can we talk about 5* health? Why the heck do the new 5*s get 50% more health than old ones.

    And why does 2* Moonstone have such ridiculous HP scaling in champ levels (and higher, for CPUs)?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    With Worthy being paired with Hawkeye in back to back Challenge Nodes to fuel better red/blue characters; I’m guessing that particular synergy is seen as fine/intended by the developers. I have maintained that Worthy is fine as is, and I’m guessing that the developers likely do too. 

    That said I’ve been one of the biggest Bishop should be nerfed advocates on here and really really hope he is still being considered for rebalance. I don’t think I’ve used Worthy Hawkeye myself in a couple seasons and rarely ever see them out at all in pick 2. I hit them whenever I do to avoid Bishop teams. All that is probably telling. 
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    So, who are you using to take out these Worthy/HE teams in the challenge nodes? Because they are just as bad as Bishop IMO, if not worse.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    jp1 said:
    So, who are you using to take out these Worthy/HE teams in the challenge nodes? Because they are just as bad as Bishop IMO, if not worse.
    I was typing up a response about how I use 5 star Dr Strange to take those teams down in pvp but then I reread and see you are talking about the challenge node.  Of course they are a big probelm when they are pumped up to lvl 650, that's not really a fair comparison to a regular bihsop.

    You should be posting this question in the CL10 challenge node discussion topic.  There are lots of team combinations people are posting to beat these 650 teams.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Actually, Worthy Cap being leveled so high means he doesn't trigger on simple matches, even match 4s at higher levels. I've found him mostly to be a non-factor.

    My Thorkoye/Iceman (all at Level 469) have been handling it OK so far. Only times I've had problems is bad boards or when the AI gets a bad cascade. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    Why is this thread still stickied?

    Are rebalances really a thing?  Could they happen?

    Or was this just like SCL10, coming soon in 2022?  (using approximate timespan from first announcement/discussion)
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    BriMan2222 said:
    jp1 said:
    So, who are you using to take out these Worthy/HE teams in the challenge nodes? Because they are just as bad as Bishop IMO, if not worse.
    I was typing up a response about how I use 5 star Dr Strange to take those teams down in pvp but then I reread and see you are talking about the challenge node.  Of course they are a big probelm when they are pumped up to lvl 650, that's not really a fair comparison to a regular bihsop.

    You should be posting this question in the CL10 challenge node discussion topic.  There are lots of team combinations people are posting to beat these 650 teams.
    Fair enough point, I don’t agree that this only belongs in the CL10 thread though. That character combo is a problem for me, with my roster, and I have a pretty good roster. I consider HammerCap to be a real issue when boosted, more than Bishop. It’s just my opinion of course and results will vary, but it’s feedback about a rebalance that I’m giving at least in a roundabout way.

    PVP isn’t the only place we should be considering rebalance efficiency after all. 

    I appreciate the response though, and I agree that it isn’t really a fair comparison unless we are talking about a 650 Bishop as well.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    jp1 said:
    BriMan2222 said:
    jp1 said:
    So, who are you using to take out these Worthy/HE teams in the challenge nodes? Because they are just as bad as Bishop IMO, if not worse.
    I was typing up a response about how I use 5 star Dr Strange to take those teams down in pvp but then I reread and see you are talking about the challenge node.  Of course they are a big probelm when they are pumped up to lvl 650, that's not really a fair comparison to a regular bihsop.

    You should be posting this question in the CL10 challenge node discussion topic.  There are lots of team combinations people are posting to beat these 650 teams.
    Fair enough point, I don’t agree that this only belongs in the CL10 thread though. That character combo is a problem for me, with my roster, and I have a pretty good roster. I consider HammerCap to be a real issue when boosted, more than Bishop. It’s just my opinion of course and results will vary, but it’s feedback about a rebalance that I’m giving at least in a roundabout way.

    PVP isn’t the only place we should be considering rebalance efficiency after all. 

    I appreciate the response though, and I agree that it isn’t really a fair comparison unless we are talking about a 650 Bishop as well.
    I only meant that it belongs in that thread since it seemed like you were talking about the Challenge node specifically.  If you're having a problem with him in pvp as well then I will  suggest 5* Dr Strange if you have him.

    Make sure that if Cap has enough blue you keep Strange in the back so he doesn't get stunned, but between 5 star match damage and Cap firing powers he will go down quick.  Then with cap gone there is a good chance HE will start firing arrows and since they are so cheap he will be firing them often and triggering Strange.  You'll likely take him down before any of his arrows resolve.  Then just clean up whoever their team mate is. 


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    @IceIX can we please close this thread?   It has been almost 2 
    months with no action on this.  This thread should be deemed trolling and closed by the mod team.   If the dev team cannot see the Bishop and Hammer Cap need to be looked at ASAP then I have no idea what to say.  

    @fight4thedream can this be closed due to trolling?  Isn’t 2 months enough?  Just curious per the rules of the forums. 
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    The rockett said:
    @IceIX can we please close this thread?   It has been almost 2 
    months with no action on this.  This thread should be deemed trolling and closed by the mod team.   If the dev team cannot see the Bishop and Hammer Cap need to be looked at ASAP then I have no idea what to say.  

    @fight4thedream can this be closed due to trolling?  Isn’t 2 months enough?  Just curious per the rules of the forums. 
    Why close it? Just because it has been 2 months? It clearly states in the first post not to expect any action any time soon, but shutting down the small attempts they make to listen to community feedback seems like it has no upside. 

    The bigger the thread gets, the more of a “problem” they can see rebalancing is. I don’t think it’s fair to assume they aren’t reading just because they aren’t doing anything yet. 

    That said, I’m just as frustrated as anyone, especially with HammerCap.

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