Patch Notes 5/21 Discussion (Inc Spider-Man)

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Rajjeq wrote:

The "bundling" of slots is pure ****. "More impactful" is just utter nonsense. You buy a slot when you need a slot, and HP is hard when you are starting. Yet another player unfriendly change. I already have 38 slots so this does not affect me, but boy are you people getting brazenly greedy.

And trying to pretend this is somehow a good thing for players when you don't even provide a discount for bundling??? And making it mandatory??? We aren't that stupid.

I must be a crazy person for still playing a game I would never recommend to my family or friends.

You know what... You are right. I dont think I would recommend this game at all to anyone I know. That's really weird.

Spoit

^ Well yeah, but ragman's skills are not really all that threatening either.

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

gamar wrote:

Spoit wrote:

As the only 3* (other than laken now) he's already one of the tamest scaling dark avengers. Like, he's only above yelena in my kill order, at scaled levels, even bullseye or moonstone are higher priorities

Like I realized in the first Rags tournament this season, he literally makes your team worse than a team with two characters. His "two medium colors" gimmick means he doesn't tank any colors so his high HP means nothing, on defense he uses his worthless green to prevent anybody else from using their green, and his red while not AWFUL is also almost always the worst red ability on your team.

Even Bagman is merely worthless, he doesn't PENALIZE you for having him on the team

Note: i never even saw old Ragnarok. I joined just before they power nerfed him. So i have no real idea of how devastating he used to be.

To Ragnaroks Credits, Hes got a meaty amount of health so defensively he's a chore (like a baby hulk), and he's good for taking a hit to the face. When you cap his covers they cascade well into one another and with his low costs he is constantly attacking. I think if he did more solid damage with those two moves he would finally be a threat without needing the aid of a strike tile teammate. and maybe extend his Godlike Power to three centre columns at 5/5 -in exchange for the paltry damage it does now-. really make it shake up the board. And i agree that he should use (and generate) different colours. Red and green are fae too common and far too better used. Maybe yellow and purple. That's what makes doom so awesome, he's one of the few who generate black and if noone is using it better he can lay down some of the meanest attack tiles in the game. that is an example of a great 2 colour character. I guess either up Rags utility (tile Colour generation and board clearing) or up his damage.

but all in all I wholly agree that as he is, he is just a giant meat punching bag.

That was half of northern polarity's point! He has a ton of health, but because he only has 2 medium colors, he can't actually get in front to take any hits!

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

19 pages of thoughtful discussion and commentary are at Upcoming Character Change: Spider-Man (Classic).

Well, not *all* the posts there are thoughtful, but understand what you're saying. We've gone through that whole thread and are moving ahead as planned. That doesn't mean that further comments and suggestions aren't discussed, or that further changes may not be made.

I have to say I'm very disappointed there has been no communication from you on this after the community has shown they are not comfortable with this. We are here spending time giving you feedback and not only does none it it seem to make an impact but there isnt even a discussion on why changes so drastic make sense. You have people now telling others to get a credit card refund due to these changes and people are going through with it.

Whats it going to take for you to listen to your community?

This community is being abused and yet its still here. That speaks to the IP in this game NOT the game or dev/publisher itself. But the IP is only going to take you so long before the turnover will catch up and by that time its too late.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

gamar wrote:

People buy slots when they need space for a new character. Getting a new hero already feels "impactful," and any slot that doesn't have a hero in it is just wasted spending.

I'm guessing your metrics showed a significant amount of players stopping at 11 or 14 roster slots? Come on, I understand that grouping roster slots is a change that will likely get d3p a little more revenue while having little to no negative impact on the majority of players but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Actually, we're expecting this change to have a minor *negative* affect on revenue. One of the major reasons we made this change is so that players don't get into the mindset that 1.99 purchases are the way to move forward in the game. It works, but it's not at all efficient. We get quite a lot of reports from players that we nickle and dime them early on in the game but feel forced to pay anyway and almost invariably, they are players that spent 20 bucks in 1.99 purchases when 15 in 5s and a bit of saving some HP in the same amount of playtime would have served that player *much* better. There's something psychological about getting into a rut in spending on the same pack over and over because it's familiar. We want to lessen that impact some. At the same time, eliminating the 1.99 purchase altogether not only sends the wrong message (lesser paying players need not apply) but also doesn't account for those users that *do* spend a tiny bit here and there.

So why not presenting the option of buying roster slots both individually or in a bundle? This way it wouldn't screw with people that can't pay the upfront cost of several slots but can afford to pay one, usuall the only one they need at the moment anyway.

Unknown

bonebreak wrote:

Whats it going to take for you to listen to your community?

Money talks. In this case the lack thereof. The only way they'll listen is if their bottom line takes a hit.

This forum may represent a small % of the player base, but we are the ones that care the most about the game. There were plenty of suggestions about what to do with Spiderman and D3 went with their own solution that ends up crippling a beloved character. I appreciated the time taken to make the change, but when the change is downright awful and it's obvious you ignored all the feedback then we have a right to be upset.

Ice fed us a corporate line after insulting us. My days of caring for this game are numbered. I don't post reviews for games, but I may make an exception in this case, and I can assure you it won't be a positive review.

_RiO_

sup123 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

gamar wrote:

People buy slots when they need space for a new character. Getting a new hero already feels "impactful," and any slot that doesn't have a hero in it is just wasted spending.

I'm guessing your metrics showed a significant amount of players stopping at 11 or 14 roster slots? Come on, I understand that grouping roster slots is a change that will likely get d3p a little more revenue while having little to no negative impact on the majority of players but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Actually, we're expecting this change to have a minor *negative* affect on revenue. One of the major reasons we made this change is so that players don't get into the mindset that 1.99 purchases are the way to move forward in the game. It works, but it's not at all efficient. We get quite a lot of reports from players that we nickle and dime them early on in the game but feel forced to pay anyway and almost invariably, they are players that spent 20 bucks in 1.99 purchases when 15 in 5s and a bit of saving some HP in the same amount of playtime would have served that player *much* better. There's something psychological about getting into a rut in spending on the same pack over and over because it's familiar. We want to lessen that impact some. At the same time, eliminating the 1.99 purchase altogether not only sends the wrong message (lesser paying players need not apply) but also doesn't account for those users that *do* spend a tiny bit here and there.

So why not presenting the option of buying roster slots both individually or in a bundle? This way it wouldn't screw with people that can't pay the upfront cost of several slots but can afford to pay one, usuall the only one they need at the moment anyway.

You're answering your own question;
Because offering the choice for single slot purchases doesn't screw with people that can't pay the upfront cost. They want to screw with people; entice them to purchase additional HP to fund the cover slot bundle by raising the bundle cost to a point where players are doubting they can raise the HP required before an awarded cover expires. In the Venturebeat article series, it was stated that pulling players out of their comfort zones is seen as part of their business model. Keeping players second-guessing on how the game works (by continuously shifting how the game works so that players cannot get a reliable beat on it), is one of the strategies they can (and seemingly do) employ. Feeding on people's fear and concern is another.

Here's another change I'm anticipating: the expiration time on covers is going to be pulled forward to keep the pressure on, as a drop in revenue is already being expected due to failing adoption.
[silly excuse]And why not? With all those covers awarded from PvP, wouldn't your list eventually become far too big and clogged anyway?[/silly excuse]

IceIX

user311 wrote:

Maybe Im misunderstanding something. If right now I only have 450HP to add a slot for Nick Fury as my 34th character, are you saying I now have to spend money or risk not earning 150 more HP in the next 6 days and have all of my Season 1 work expire?

No. Slots 25 and on are unaffected by the change. So nothing interesting happening for you.

Unknown

UncleSam wrote:

bonebreak wrote:

Whats it going to take for you to listen to your community?

Money talks. In this case the lack thereof. The only way they'll listen is if their bottom line takes a hit.

This forum may represent a small % of the player base, but we are the ones that care the most about the game. There were plenty of suggestions about what to do with Spiderman and D3 went with their own solution that ends up crippling a beloved character. I appreciated the time taken to make the change, but when the change is downright awful and it's obvious you ignored all the feedback then we have a right to be upset.

Ice fed us a corporate line after insulting us. My days of caring for this game are numbered. I don't post reviews for games, but I may make an exception in this case, and I can assure you it won't be a positive review.

CRIPPLING?! Forget crippling. He is COMPLETELY USELESS NOW! COMPLETELY!!! 5 AP for a single turn stun. 1!

He has no damage output, is squishy as hell... and now has no skills. Thanks! TINYKITTY YOU

Unknown

Thanx for crippling my game play method guys,I just felt the blunt of new spidey in PVE, got wiped.This move will probably singlehandly kill my addiction to MPQ along with my 8+ hours a day.Please change spidey back before its too late.Im 200ish days straight and would mourn as I start browsing the AppStore again, cuz im constantly leaving my amount of play tyme on chance,... P.S now 1 of my 2 capped 3 star's are useless.Great to know those i bust **** getting to cap taking ungodly amounts of iso will be nullified at whim.Seems like its triple the blow that Rags,thor/wolvie and minor obw, cmags nerfs combined to make useless a grinders most needed player.

IceIX

bonebreak wrote:

I have to say I'm very disappointed there has been no communication from you on this after the community has shown they are not comfortable with this. We are here spending time giving you feedback and not only does none it it seem to make an impact but there isnt even a discussion on why changes so drastic make sense. You have people now telling others to get a credit card refund due to these changes and people are going through with it.

We don't comment on every thread, nor have we ever done so. That does not mean that we don't read feedback on these forums by any means. In this particular case, we read the feedback on the changes and determined that the best thing to do was to move forward with our proposed changes. Even *if* we were to take any one of the ideas fully on board, we have (and I'm sure you'll agree) waited for quite a while to get Spider-Man in a more manageable position. Taking on any other changes at this point would just delay things further. That's also assuming that those changes wouldn't *also* be disliked for reasons A/B/C.

_RiO_

IceIX wrote:

user311 wrote:

Maybe Im misunderstanding something. If right now I only have 450HP to add a slot for Nick Fury as my 34th character, are you saying I now have to spend money or risk not earning 150 more HP in the next 6 days and have all of my Season 1 work expire?

No. Slots 25 and on are unaffected by the change. So nothing interesting happening for you.

No, instead you're going to play mind-games with starting players; those with the most limited roster sizes, the least ability to raise HP and that have the most heroes left to collect and add to their roster. Rare and powerful character cover awards with timers ticking down, but no open slots available, not enough HP to buy a new slot bundle and not enough time to earn that HP. The fear of losing that character is going to provide a "gentle push" to spend money on HP to fund the increased bulk cost for the next series of slots.

That is not just tinykitty despicable, that is huge freaking mountain cat despicable.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

We don't comment on every thread, nor have we ever done so. That does not mean that we don't read feedback on these forums by any means. In this particular case, we read the feedback on the changes and determined that the best thing to do was to move forward with our proposed changes. Even *if* we were to take any one of the ideas fully on board, we have (and I'm sure you'll agree) waited for quite a while to get Spider-Man in a more manageable position. Taking on any other changes at this point would just delay things further. That's also assuming that those changes wouldn't *also* be disliked for reasons A/B/C.

Ice, I used to support you, but this is baloney. There was plenty of feedback on Spiderman even before it was announced he would be funbalanced. Here's a thought for your company. Why not publish those changes here to the community for feedback before ever scheduling the change. Many of us play your game way more than any of you guys do so we have a pretty good idea of how abilities will play out. We accepted Bagman because he's a joke character anyway, but you killed Spidey. If you turnaround and release a Gold Spidey in the next month or so with a superior skillset I will be very disappointed.

Bainee

At skill lvl 4 for Spider-man's purple ability it is allowing 4 protect tiles to be added.

This is not consistent with the posted notes of 3 protect tiles . Was this changed last minute?

EDIT: Also the base protect number is 25 at 4/5 rather than 20 at 5/5 like it says in the notes

Unknown

Dunno what testing you guys have been doing, but Spiderman is utterly disastrous now in the support role he had earlier. He is an ok character, possibly, for a role other than actually being played competitive.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

bonebreak wrote:

I have to say I'm very disappointed there has been no communication from you on this after the community has shown they are not comfortable with this. We are here spending time giving you feedback and not only does none it it seem to make an impact but there isnt even a discussion on why changes so drastic make sense. You have people now telling others to get a credit card refund due to these changes and people are going through with it.

We don't comment on every thread, nor have we ever done so. That does not mean that we don't read feedback on these forums by any means. In this particular case, we read the feedback on the changes and determined that the best thing to do was to move forward with our proposed changes. Even *if* we were to take any one of the ideas fully on board, we have (and I'm sure you'll agree) waited for quite a while to get Spider-Man in a more manageable position. Taking on any other changes at this point would just delay things further. That's also assuming that those changes wouldn't *also* be disliked for reasons A/B/C.

I guess what some of us are looking for in all this is why certian aspects were changed so much to the point where he seems less powerfull than many (weaker 2 star or in some cases the stronger 1 star characters for an ability standpoint) Bullseyes protect tiles are superior to spidermans if a team is running him on support and not making tons of web tiles. Whether its the stun cost or his heal amount most of us arent saying he was fine as is. But the changes that your company decided on dont appear at all in line with a 3 star character that takes 172k iso to level up which is just a ton of time. All we are asking is that his power level feels like a 3 star character. I for one am more upset at the changes to his purple ability than his blue. Purple didnt need a change at all and if it did it was ONLY on the top end with web tiles. Not without web tiles on the board. If feels like with these changes you are implying that all spiderman players will do nothing but match blue and then his abilities are much better. But hes a support character. I dont think its likely you will see tons of web tiles in SM matches.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

As the only 3* (other than laken now) he's already one of the tamest scaling dark avengers. Like, he's only above yelena in my kill order, at scaled levels, even bullseye or moonstone are higher priorities

Hell, even in the rags tourney where he was boosted to crazy amounts i ALWAYS saved him for last. He is just so weak and i wanted him to use his green / red over Lthor Patch, etc etc.

IceIX

UncleSam wrote:

Ice, I used to support you, but this is baloney. There was plenty of feedback on Spiderman even before it was announced he would be funbalanced. Here's a thought for your company. Why not publish those changes here to the community for feedback before ever scheduling the change. Many of us play your game way more than any of you guys do so we have a pretty good idea of how abilities will play out. We accepted Bagman because he's a joke character anyway, but you killed Spidey. If you turnaround and release a Gold Spidey in the next month or so with a superior skillset I will be very disappointed.

We did publish those changes here. A 19 page thread resulted which we also read and looked into.

Unknown

The problem being my friend that that thread is vastly pointing out the exact results you are now seeing, which makes it look like you fellows didn't even bother with reading it. Spiderman was clearly overpowered. Now he is vastly underpowered instead. Not even the wildest nerfer saw such a shift coming.

You guys did horribly with Ragnarok. Then you did real well with Thor and Wlovie in my opinion. This one you completely screwed I am afraid. And you had more than three weeks of warning too.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

We did publish those changes here. A 19 page thread resulted which we also read and looked into.

Yes, but not for feedback. You published it as "here is what is coming for Spiderman". We've seen you make changes to other characters before the change was released (BP and Psylocke and Falcon), so we know you are capable of doing it.

Besides, the feedback I referred to was the funbalance announcement months ago when Spiderman and 8 or so other characters were listed. The community has been giving feedback all over the forums for months which was clearly ignored in favore for the changes that have rendered Spiderman useless for his star tier.

DD-The-Mighty

UncleSam wrote:

IceIX wrote:

We did publish those changes here. A 19 page thread resulted which we also read and looked into.

Yes, but not for feedback. You published it as "here is what is coming for Spiderman". We've seen you make changes to other characters before the change was released (BP and Psylocke and Falcon), so we know you are capable of doing it.

Besides, the feedback I referred to was the funbalance announcement months ago when Spiderman and 8 or so other characters were listed. The community has been giving feedback all over the forums for months which was clearly ignored in favore for the changes that have rendered Spiderman useless for his star tier.

I really do take no joy in saying this: I don't think the forum community had anything to do with the balancing of Psylocke and Cpt. Falcon and especially BP's Rage of the Panther.
At most they gave you the impression you had some say in it but i hardly think it mattered. they would have done it with or without your input. And if Ragnarok didn't drill that home, Spideyguy definitely should.