New Feature in R191: Shards

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  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
    The rockett said:
    Dogface said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Wonko33 said:
    Pongie said:
    Already wasted 111 shards targeting my 2/5/5 torch. Didn’t realise the red was in pve progression AND shield sim for the season. Should have targeted 2099 spidey instead (5/3/2).
    compared to how many times you got a bonus hero of the wrong color? 

    Yeah but when you would pull a bonus hero in the wrong color, it's more of a aw shucks moment. Now if you pull the 13th when you have 300+ shards in a cover it's more of a what the "tiny kitty" moment.... 
    I can tell you the moment my 5/5/0 Okoye didn't get the red cover from BH I wanted, aw shucks weren't the words leaving my mouth.
    So I am very curious about this and others that talk about 5/5/0 or whatever type of 5* that have feeders.  I have seen many people comment about this but I question if you were BHing their feeder. Like Shuri, was she BHed?  I get that you would need one at 360 and a dupe at 330 to champ just by the feeders but i still wonder about this.  
    Speaking for myself, I don't have any 5/5/0 5* characters currently (my only one in the recent-ish past was Daredevil and I used a forum contest reward to get the missing cover). But I do have quite a few 5* characters with unbalanced cover distribution.

    With Bonus Heroes, I didn't want to risk getting a Saved Cover so I only favorited meta 5* characters that I had champed. With Shards, I switched to a character that will not be completed by a single set of 4* feeder covers (Thanos at 2/3/7 with G4mora at level 335)
  • Ed_Dragonrider
    Ed_Dragonrider Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    So, when is R192 coming then? This week? Next?
     And will it contain updates to include this new mighty token, or additional shards or is that still quite a ways away?
    Basically any info on what's coming up and when would be much appreciated...
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well, I got some heroics from lightning rounds. Slowly grinding away to get a 13th Sabretooth. First heroic gives me shards for 4* Widow. "That's weird. I should only be getting 4* shards for Sabretooth." So I check to see my targeted heroes and the game added Widow even though she's fully covered already. So, yes, wasted shards do exist.
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,396 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just realized that I missed a downside to targeting a hero that you have only a few covers for. Sorry if someone brought this up already, but so far my thinking was more about the 'wasted' shards scenario for 12 covers. This is kind of a variation on that, but then for low-covered heroes.

    My 5* Hawkeye is at 1/2/2. Suppose I TH him, and save enough shards to level up a power. What color am I going to apply it to? Probably purple, to make him 2/2/2. But, if my next 5 organic pulls for HE are also purple, I will still regret that choice. Same-color streaks like that may not be very common, but not too rare either (e.g. my IMXLVI is sitting at 6/0/0).

    Of course I can still enjoy a better covered character in the meantime, but in terms of 'using the system to complete a character', it fails again, unless I postpone applying the shards until the moment where I'm sure can finish him. 
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    DeNappa said:
    I just realized that I missed a downside to targeting a hero that you have only a few covers for. Sorry if someone brought this up already, but so far my thinking was more about the 'wasted' shards scenario for 12 covers. This is kind of a variation on that, but then for low-covered heroes.

    My 5* Hawkeye is at 1/2/2. Suppose I TH him, and save enough shards to level up a power. What color am I going to apply it to? Probably purple, to make him 2/2/2. But, if my next 5 organic pulls for HE are also purple, I will still regret that choice. Same-color streaks like that may not be very common, but not too rare either (e.g. my IMXLVI is sitting at 6/0/0).

    Of course I can still enjoy a better covered character in the meantime, but in terms of 'using the system to complete a character', it fails again, unless I postpone applying the shards until the moment where I'm sure can finish him. 
    In that scenario, you shouldn't convert shards into covers yet. Keep building up shards and pulling for the character. Once you have enough shards to jump from X covers already applied to 13, you can convert them. It's their only true improvement (so far) to BH - they're coverless, and will fill any weird build gaps at that point.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    Nah, take a chance. 
    You've mentioned the ultra conservative route and that works for sure, but Hawkeye will become 'playable' much sooner than waiting to acquire all 13 covers.
    Plus, you've got Kate Bishop who will guarantee even color distribution throughout her champ levels, and will surely gain them faster than you will through TH on Hawkeye directly. 
    I say take the chance and use shards on that purple cover to go 2/2/2, just save shards up after that, and see how fast Kate gets things moving. 
    Are you actively pulling from Classics as you go or saving / hoarding? 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here is a little feeder math based on how I play, feel free to check it for accuracy and adjust pulls/day to suit your own earn rate. I don't differentiate cp/LT pulls so I can't really calculate the delta between pulling from classic and latest simultaneously vs sticking to latest. I'm also assuming no direct purchase shards:

    Constants:
    5* Tier - 1 cover for every 166.667 (500 shards / 3 shards per pull) pulls from a legendary store
    At a pull rate of 2.5 Latest/day average, that's  1 cover every 66 days purely from 5* shards
    4* Tier - 1 cover for every 26.667 pulls from a legendary store (incidental shards earned through lesser tokens I don't track, so I don't have hard metrics)
    at the same 2.5 Latest/day, that's 1 4* cover every 10 days without factoring in lessor token shards
    3* Tier - 1 cover every 3 days ( see above, i don't track drop rates on those tokens so i can't estimate the pull count)
    4* Feeders: 1/1/1 at 50 covers (270-320)
    4* Feeders: 2/2/2 at 90 covers (270-360)

    Scenario 1: Totally unfed 5* classic from scratch (no organic pulls): 858 days to 13 covers (66 days per cover * 13 covers ). This is the worst-case situation for someone who somehow has an incomplete roster but a high-ish pull rate

    Scenario 2: Unrostered 5* fed by baby champ 4* with no 3* feeder: 662 days. By the time you've earned 7 5* covers from shards (462 days at 2.5 pulls per day), you'll have pulled in 49 shard-earned covers for your 4* feeder (discounting rewards and organic pulls), putting you at 10 5* covers from your feeder. These last 3 covers you need are going to be split between direct 5* sharding and feeder drops from your 4*: 200 days to level 340, and you'll have landed 2 more direct 5*s with those pulls. This likely won't be nearly this dire because of the relative availability of 4* covers via rewards, heroes for hire, and organic pulls, but it's the pure-shard math as I see it using my own pull per day rate. Your mileage will seriously vary based on your 4* earn rate, so this is a worst case number.

    Scenario 3: Unrostered 5* fed by baby champ 4* fed by baby champ 3*: This is another one that I don't have the data to truly calculate all sources of earned 3*s. So this calculation is also going to be the pure shard math, which would truly be a worst case scenario indeed. But if we start from the previous example, I'd have earned 220.667 3* covers, or 6 4* covers in the span of time it took to do it without a 3* feeder. So depending on where you are in the chain, that may be a trivial addition to the process. This one is going to be highly variable since 3* covers drop from all over the place fairly regularly. 
  • Rhipf
    Rhipf Posts: 295 Mover and Shaker
     
    shardwick said:
    Well, I got some heroics from lightning rounds. Slowly grinding away to get a 13th Sabretooth. First heroic gives me shards for 4* Widow. "That's weird. I should only be getting 4* shards for Sabretooth." So I check to see my targeted heroes and the game added Widow even though she's fully covered already. So, yes, wasted shards do exist.
    The game doesn't just automatically add Targeted Heroes. Somehow you must have accidentally clicked on the TH button for Widow. Also, even though she is fully covered those shards are "wasted" since they can be applied to a duplicate Widow (just like pulling a new Widow organically). Once the duplicate is created you can sell it or keep it as a farming character.
    I realize you may not want a second Widow nor want to TH her for the rest of the shard to get a duplicate but the shards still aren't wasted they just aren't of any particular use to you (and no that isn't the same as wasted).
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I did the same thing scrolling through my roster, and accidentally had Okoye and Lumbercap targeted, ended up with 3 LC shards.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    So we got another deal you can buy shards but you will be left with extra or wasted unless you favorite them.  This seems to be the direction we are heading.  
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    Yeah you know they don't mind us having 'extra' shards on characters. 
    As mentioned, it triggers player compulsions to continue on those who have extra shards sitting around.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2019
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6029755/uploads/editor/r4/l6owoa8cw67i.png
    I haven't noticed anyone mention that a full 20x purchase of 5* Character's Shards from HP still only gets you 400. 
    For the other 100 Shards it will take 34 Legendary draws, after you just spent 20,795 HP.
    Naturally you'd be expected to have some shards built up on that character already, but wow.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6029755/uploads/editor/r4/l6owoa8cw67i.png
    I haven't noticed anyone mention that a full 20x purchase of 5* Character's Shards from HP still only gets you 400. 
    For the other 100 Shards it will take 34 Legendary draws, after you just spent 20,795 HP.
    Naturally you'd be expected to have some shards built up on that character already, but wow.
    Or you can wait long enough to eventually see them in a store again....
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    Right! And without forgetting to check the store twice a day haha.
    So that would cost another 5x purchases for 3415 HP, totalling 24,210 HP overall.
    I've your're truly optimal, you should do just 10x from two different store appearances, for 8795 x2 = 17,590 HP.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rhipf said:
     
    shardwick said:
    Well, I got some heroics from lightning rounds. Slowly grinding away to get a 13th Sabretooth. First heroic gives me shards for 4* Widow. "That's weird. I should only be getting 4* shards for Sabretooth." So I check to see my targeted heroes and the game added Widow even though she's fully covered already. So, yes, wasted shards do exist.
    The game doesn't just automatically add Targeted Heroes. Somehow you must have accidentally clicked on the TH button for Widow. Also, even though she is fully covered those shards are "wasted" since they can be applied to a duplicate Widow (just like pulling a new Widow organically). Once the duplicate is created you can sell it or keep it as a farming character.
    I realize you may not want a second Widow nor want to TH her for the rest of the shard to get a duplicate but the shards still aren't wasted they just aren't of any particular use to you (and no that isn't the same as wasted).
    Well, it did. My account is bugged and did the same thing with bonus heroes so literally before every single time I pulled tokens or used cp I had to make sure that the game didn't add any extra characters. Figured that I wouldn't have to deal with this anymore but I guess that TH is just a reskinned Bonus Heroes.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2019
    shardwick said:
    Rhipf said:
     
    shardwick said:

    The game doesn't just automatically add Targeted Heroes. Somehow you must have accidentally clicked on the TH button for Widow. Also, even though she is fully covered those shards are "wasted" since they can be applied to a duplicate Widow (just like pulling a new Widow organically). Once the duplicate is created you can sell it or keep it as a farming character.
    I realize you may not want a second Widow nor want to TH her for the rest of the shard to get a duplicate but the shards still aren't wasted they just aren't of any particular use to you (and no that isn't the same as wasted).
    Well, it did. My account is bugged and did the same thing with bonus heroes so literally before every single time I pulled tokens or used cp I had to make sure that the game didn't add any extra characters. Figured that I wouldn't have to deal with this anymore but I guess that TH is just a reskinned Bonus Heroes.
    Do you use a screen protective layer on your device? Or have a screen crack anywhere?
    If your cover or screen is not prefect sometimes your phone can 'feel' presses on random areas, increasing the likelihood that you get miss-clicks throughout your roster-scrolling screen.
    No one's game is truly 'bugged' this way, it's got to be the device somehow. 
    I had a new alliance mate that thought the only way to add the Favorite Heart was on the single Character info page itself, and didn't realize that you could add a BH heart all through the main roster screen.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    So we got another deal you can buy shards but you will be left with extra or wasted unless you favorite them.  This seems to be the direction we are heading.  
    Just like dilution, it’s a “feature” not a “problem”. I’m so glad I’m at the place I am in this game. I have all the 4s champed except the latest two. I have all the meta and near-meta fives champed minus Hawkeye, whom I have a clear path to. And I have more or less been able to keep up with new releases (in the event one becomes new meta). I feel all these hurdles and moving more toward pay to win only hurts those who haven’t cleared the wall I have and is why I no longer recommend this game to friends like I used to, even though I love and am obsessed with it. 
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,396 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    Nah, take a chance. 
    You've mentioned the ultra conservative route and that works for sure, but Hawkeye will become 'playable' much sooner than waiting to acquire all 13 covers.
    Plus, you've got Kate Bishop who will guarantee even color distribution throughout her champ levels, and will surely gain them faster than you will through TH on Hawkeye directly. 
    I say take the chance and use shards on that purple cover to go 2/2/2, just save shards up after that, and see how fast Kate gets things moving. 
    Are you actively pulling from Classics as you go or saving / hoarding? 
    Actually, that was just an example to illustrate the point. I'm not actually targeting him atm, as I'm trying to complete my 10-cover Thano5. I usually reserve my CP for special legendary stores that seem worth it.

    But I agree that at that point you should probably just buy the cover with shards and not postpone it until (probably MUCH) later.

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