New Feature in R191: Shards

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Comments

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    tiomono said:
    I find it kind of humorous that before shards we had some players saying it was impossible to organically cover a character due to dillution. Now we have some players saying they are upset that shards will be wasted because they are going to organically cover the targeted character before they gain enough shards.

    I feel sorry for the devs.
    I'm quite sure they're different players. It's impossible to keep everyone happy, short of giving everything out for free. Then the developers don't get any money, then the game shuts down and nobody will be happy.
    Yeah. I wonder if there is not some overlap though. A lot of players were very vocal on dillution being horrible. It still illustrates the difficulty that the devs face. 

    "Virtual comforting hug to the dev team" keep at it devs this is still a great game.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
    I've probably made this point already, but here it is:

    "Hanging Shards" are a feature, not a bug.

    The OCD folks will get the cover and have a few left over.  Then they think about whether to keep the person bonused, or split their favorites, or come back later to that person (maybe it helps get a dupe started/finished).  Oh!  Maybe they spend some money on shards to try to avoid leaving shards on a person.  It drives engagement.  I already find myself looking to open as many tokens as possible to get more shards.

    Most other players will just move on since the vast majority of players have many, many characters in various partial stages of completion, and what's the real difference between some shards sitting on a person vs needing millions of iso?  They might even be happy that they are partway to another cover when they need one.

    I was interested in what happens when you select 2 3's and open a bunch (49) of Standards, so I did that.  And then I finished one of them and forgot to take Favorites off of them and now I have 3 3's in various stages of Shard Actualization.  And yes it is making me want to finish them......

    AND!  Once they roll them into rewards....what do you think the odds are that they will ALL be shards that are rewarded as "wildcards" that go towards your favorites?  Or....much more likely....you will get shards for some random person just like the rewards are now? Where you don't really care about more covers for, say, 4SL but there they are so you take them.  So I imagine that you will have vast numbers of character who are Partially Sharded before you know it.
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    I've adjusted my tactics from BH to TH by targeting a 3* cover earlier, so instead of lvl 256 waiting for the LT on lvl 257, i'm targeting 3* at 253/254, hoping to get to lvl with a combination of shards and normal pulls with minimum 'waste'.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wonder if Shards hadn't gone live across a 2-day sub in front of an event consisting entirely of 2-day subs, if the more regular flow of resources would have contributed to a better sense of earn rate?

    It took me 3-days of pulling as I go, progression only to get my first 3* to to 300 shards. With Shield Training live today, and a 1-day sub, i'm already halfway to another one one day later. I'm curious to see what my shard rate will ultimately average out to be over time.

    I'm still not halfway to my first 4*, and I have 24/500 for Okoye with an accidental 3/500 to lumbercap from a mis-click on the roster screen.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I wonder if Shards hadn't gone live across a 2-day sub in front of an event consisting entirely of 2-day subs, if the more regular flow of resources would have contributed to a better sense of earn rate?

    It took me 3-days of pulling as I go, progression only to get my first 3* to to 300 shards. With Shield Training live today, and a 1-day sub, i'm already halfway to another one one day later. I'm curious to see what my shard rate will ultimately average out to be over time.

    I'm still not halfway to my first 4*, and I have 24/500 for Okoye with an accidental 3/500 to lumbercap from a mis-click on the roster screen.
    Luckily, they are selling the Mighty Bundle to make up for the gap in earnable tokens.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    I find it kind of humorous that before shards we had some players saying it was impossible to organically cover a character due to dillution. Now we have some players saying they are upset that shards will be wasted because they are going to organically cover the targeted character before they gain enough shards.

    I feel sorry for the devs.
    A tale of two organics...

    3*...  Organics probable (not rage inducing)
    4*...  Organics Rare, but still possible (could be annoying in some rare instances, but not likely).
    5*...  Organics almost impossible, depending on Feeder status.  The real crime with this tier will be unannounced feeders hitting.  Give a month notice COOL!  Give two days notice NOT COOL.
  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    A tale of two organics...

    3*...  Organics probable (not rage inducing)
    4*...  Organics Rare, but still possible (could be annoying in some rare instances, but not likely).
    5*...  Organics almost impossible, depending on Feeder status.  The real crime with this tier will be unannounced feeders hitting.  Give a month notice COOL!  Give two days notice NOT COOL.
    This entire “devs can’t win” conversation conveniently ignores Latest 5’s, where there is no dilution and organically covering a 5 in a single series of consecutive pulls has been the optimal strategy for years - and the situation where both the wasted shard problem and the reduced cover rate hurts the most.
  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    Also, the devs clearly could win. All they need to do is introduce a change to the in-game economy that’s a net positive for all players. Sure, there are lots of understandable reasons why they wouldn’t want to do that, becuase that’s the freemium world, but on those occasions when they’ve chosen to do so, they’ve caught very little flak.

    It’s moves like this, moves that are basically lateral shifts in the ingame economy with benefits for some, detriments to others, and mostly little change for everyone, that lead to conversations like this. Especially because they invariably (and understandably, but disingenuously) promote these as net positives for everyone, or as an “attempt to address dilution” when it’s really replacing the old, inadequate attempt to address dilution with a new, differently inadequate attempt to address dilution.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah.  I conveniently left out Latests on purpose.  As an exclusive Latest puller, there are slim chances that I'm going to get an unusable cover (I'm looking at you Chuck at 1/10/2).  I always get 13 covers for any character from Latest...  That being said...  There are often saved covers involved that leaves that 5 unchampable.

    I was then at the mercy of BH odds, which were fairly bad for me (it was 300+ pulls since my last 5* BH, which is of course cancelled now with the new shard system).  Now with Shards, I'll definitely be making very slow progress towards that 13th cover.  Hela, GE Doom, and Rescue are all contenders at the moment.

    My only two complaints with the shard system are (1) that they kept the "odds" the same (which is really just a lateral move, so it isn't much of a complaint).  Increasing cover output should have been implemented, IMHO.  And (2) that if a feeder ever does get released, if I'm working on that particular character, those shards are potentially "lost."  Sure, I'll still have them, but is it worth continuing to Shard that 5 just to cash in those shard points?   Does it invoke the fallacy of lost time/effort?  Either way, it's going to feel weird just being handed a cover and needing to dismiss all the effort I put into gaining the shards that I did.

    Three answers to that:  

    a) The targeted 5 had 12 covers, with saved covers.  Unlikely to continue shargeting that 5 with a new feeder announcement 
    b) The targeted 5 had 12 covers, with no saved covers.  Depending on how close.  Maybe continue for that LT reward upon completion.
    c) The targeted 5 was less than 12 covers, with or without saved covers.  May or may not continue depending on feeder payout.

    I am not, however, saying that 5's should not get feeders.  Every classic 5 should have a feeder attached to them the moment that they leave Latest.  There is zero reason not to do that.  A lot of shard-waste complaints could be instantly address by doing what others have already suggested.  1) Roll out all classic feeders at once.  or 2) make shard points character non-specific, but tier specific.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hey guys - quick question - are these Shard stores the same for all or randomised for each player? Only reason I ask is I am seeing 5* Hawkeye in there at present for anyboby interested. Sadly no use to me with my 0/0/1 but if the same for all players might be of interest to some.
  • Ed_Dragonrider
    Ed_Dragonrider Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    Hey guys - quick question - are these Shard stores the same for all or randomised for each player? Only reason I ask is I am seeing 5* Hawkeye in there at present for anyboby interested. Sadly no use to me with my 0/0/1 but if the same for all players might be of interest to some.
    They're random for each player. You may see Hawkeye, someone else has Green Goblin etc...
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ed_Dragonrider said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Hey guys - quick question - are these Shard stores the same for all or randomised for each player? Only reason I ask is I am seeing 5* Hawkeye in there at present for anyboby interested. Sadly no use to me with my 0/0/1 but if the same for all players might be of interest to some.
    They're random for each player. You may see Hawkeye, someone else has Green Goblin etc...
    Well if anybody had a Jessica Jones and wants to trade! I figured it was random, many thanks for the confirmation Mr. Dragonrider. 😎
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not only is it random; but it doesn’t cycle through everyone. So I’ve had Thanos 2-3x in the store (my highest champ) and yet to have a Parker (my targeted hero). It wouldn’t be MPQ without more RNG!
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Not only is it random; but it doesn’t cycle through everyone. So I’ve had Thanos 2-3x in the store (my highest champ) and yet to have a Parker (my targeted hero). It wouldn’t be MPQ without more RNG!
    Wow, that is actually pretty annoying!
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Not only is it random; but it doesn’t cycle through everyone. So I’ve had Thanos 2-3x in the store (my highest champ) and yet to have a Parker (my targeted hero). It wouldn’t be MPQ without more RNG!
    Wow, that is actually pretty annoying!
    1/35 or 2.8% chance twice a day if you have a specific person you want.

    It's not that unlikely that you could be waiting a month to see a specific 5.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    If only they offered a 20 HP 'spin' option to reset the daily shard offers randomly. 
    I'd slot That machine. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2019
    When it comes to combating dilution, for those saying “just add more rewards!”, I don’t envy the developers in this place. 

    If they refuse to add more resources while adding more stuff to chase (Dilution), it may scare off a lot of new players. The 4* and 5* mountains are almost impossible to climb. We are talking YEARS of grinding out this game for hours a day to earn a drop in the expanding ocean.  It’s disheartening to see so little progress. 

    However if they just pump the economy with more rewards, those who can stay on top of new releases, will cover everything even easier, they won’t have those “struggle points”, and don’t have incentive to spend. To be fair I consider myself one of those; I’ve only ever been a $2 a month player and have fared fine in terms of “keeping up” ever since transitioning to 5* land. Since Daredevil, I’ve only missed Wasp/Rescue but it was by choice and in doing so have been able to chase better classic 5s. It’s also those end game players who are winning all the good rewards making it even EASIER to progress. 

    So if it were me, I would try to make the game more friendly for newer players (increase rewards) since many in the end game can “keep up” as is. But I understand it isn’t an easy problem to solve. 

    Edit: it might be helpful for their data to ask WHY people spend. I know tons who will spend even if they don’t NEED to (no choke point) as well as those who refuse to due to perceived bad customer experience, even if they are at a choke point (me currently with Hero Points). 
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    OJSP said:
    If a 5* character has some shards already while a feeder is announced for them, wouldn't it be better to continue until we get the cover? Considering we'd get a steady stream of covers from the 4* feeder, I'd argue we should continue until we eliminate any left over shards. Then, we could move on to the next one.

    I understand it's going to be a very slow process, but recycling a 4* or building a duplicate 4* is an option if we play long enough and we will get more 5* covers from the champion rewards. That one cover for the 5000 iso from lvl 452 reward could be what gets us faster to the next LT.
    What I think is ultimately going to happen is we will.be getting some quantity of shards for all 5*'s from rewards.  So we will get value from these shards eventually.  It will feel like a waste to see shards we purchased or got from opening tokens get lost in the ocean so to speak, but it's a sunk cost at that point and for me it will really just depend on how close to getting that cover I am.  Most likely I'll cut bait, because my one and only goal at this point is to champ them all.

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