Captain Hammertime and his broken friends

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Comments

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    You can say "the team isn't interested in rebalances" but let's consider again my info posted above about testing.

    Each rebalance (the way they approach it) should - if done right - require the same extensive testing as a new character.  Thousands to millions of teams to test if done right.  Because they change powersets and that should mean you take that new character into testing to make sure you it works, isn't OP, etc.

    With NO increase in resource pressure and almost no good way to build revenue from the extensive work involved in creating a new powerset (again, as they do things) the work involved in rebalancing characters is probably prohibitive at this point.

    I mean you would think, at minimum, they would go back to characters like Emma or Talos and try to make people less annoyed at pulling them somehow.  But nothing has happened all year except at the very beginning of the year, under the old lead developer, when Mr F was rebalanced during "Fantastic January" or "World's Greatest Month" or whatever. Which was probably only done because all the 4 were in the game already.

    Don't think they will be doing any more rebalances.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    OJSP said:
    Chrynos1989 said:
    As the OP of this thread, I’m pretty surprised that this thread has so much activity, actually with that kind of title.
    It's actually an important topic. I honestly think the title is a bit inappropriate, but I suppose it's just your way of expressing your frustration. I'd be happier if you could edit the title to be a bit clearer about who you're complaining about, but I'm not too bothered about it.
    I wasn't going to be that guy, but I had a foster brother who died of cancer at 27 and left 3 kids behind.

    And have a father with cancer.

    Hammercap is at least semi-broken but it's still just a &%$! video game.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    You can say "the team isn't interested in rebalances" but let's consider again my info posted above about testing.

    Each rebalance (the way they approach it) should - if done right - require the same extensive testing as a new character.  Thousands to millions of teams to test if done right.  Because they change powersets and that should mean you take that new character into testing to make sure you it works, isn't OP, etc.

    With NO increase in resource pressure and almost no good way to build revenue from the extensive work involved in creating a new powerset (again, as they do things) the work involved in rebalancing characters is probably prohibitive at this point.

    I mean you would think, at minimum, they would go back to characters like Emma or Talos and try to make people less annoyed at pulling them somehow.  But nothing has happened all year except at the very beginning of the year, under the old lead developer, when Mr F was rebalanced during "Fantastic January" or "World's Greatest Month" or whatever. Which was probably only done because all the 4 were in the game already.

    Don't think they will be doing any more rebalances.

    Nothing in the game burns me more than spending 25 cp and getting a Talos cover. No need to rework him, just get rid of him entirely, so we aren’t wasting precious resources for garbage. I’m pretty sure nobody is chasing Talos.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    bluewolf said:
    You can say "the team isn't interested in rebalances" but let's consider again my info posted above about testing.
    I agree with your opinion about playtesting. That number is staggering and we are all human with limitations. It is simply impossible at the current rate of new character releases to do proper team composition testing prior to a new character being released. It's possible they had an oversight and missed the synergy between Hawkeye and Cap, but that's why players feedback are also important as long as they're constructive.

    Saying someone is broken and complaining without expanding the reasoning is not particularly helpful. We could assume what makes someone unhappy, but that's not the right way to communicate our displeasure.

    If we tell the developers what mechanics specifically we are unhappy about with regards to Cap, we have a higher chance of getting that power(s) changed (or even Bishop's power(s)) instead of getting even stronger newer characters to counter them.

    Like it or not, even though they are denying it, we as players are also the playtesters of the game and we have more time and manpower than them to find interesting combinations.
    Specifically I dislike that for 5* players bishop and cap force you to deal with them until they are dead. If you target them first they will punish you. If you try to target them last, they will punish you. If you make a match 3 they pop a passive that leads to advantages for their team. If you get a cascade they can have 20+ ap before they even move a tile. At least cap requires 1 certain teammate to get the ap gain.

    This is not a concern of this character gathered ap and hit me with a power. This is a concern that I took my turn and the enemy already has more ap than me without them even taking a turn.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,527 Chairperson of the Boards
    I also would welcome a thread name change but if not then I would acknowledge the OP clearly means no harm.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    Thinking about an alternative to changing Bishop's or Cap's power(s). I think the main issue is the low damage threshold that makes it almost inevitable for 5* characters to trigger their passives. But, increasing the threshold would render these characters weak against their own tier (similar issue with characters like 3* Cap Marvel and 4* Thing, and to a certain extent X-Force Deadpool as their levels go up).

    What if there's a new character who punishes someone who jumps to the front? Either stunning or dealing damage to the jumper or destroying random APs or stopping the team from gaining AP for a turn? I don't think this is particularly OP as a power, because it's very niche.

    I don't think I've seen this mentioned before and I don't know how feasible it is from the coding perspective.


    Now...the game lets you choose the AI target (other than these special JIF characters).  But you, dear player...your characters jump around like a bunch of grasshoppers during cascades etc.

    Not sure if the game would be able to discern between those two conditions if you were facing an AI-controlled character who punished the person moving to the front.

    But that DOES sound like another cheap, easy to exploit defensive character if it couldn't.  Maybe that's the 4 we'll see in a few months......
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    Two 4*s reinvigorated the general forum!
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,945 Chairperson of the Boards
    No harm, no foul......this combo can be frustrating.....the seeming carelessness of design grinds my gears too.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    Thinking about an alternative to changing Bishop's or Cap's power(s). I think the main issue is the low damage threshold that makes it almost inevitable for 5* characters to trigger their passives. But, increasing the threshold would render these characters weak against their own tier (similar issue with characters like 3* Cap Marvel and 4* Thing, and to a certain extent X-Force Deadpool as their levels go up).

    What if there's a new character who punishes someone who jumps to the front (added for clarity: specifically due to their passive power)? Either stunning or dealing damage to the jumper or destroying random APs or stopping the team from gaining AP for a turn? I don't think this is particularly OP as a power, because it's very niche.

    I don't think I've seen this mentioned before and I don't know how feasible it is from the coding perspective.


    Or they could make it trigger off match 4 or greater (3* Loki, 4* JG) or special power firing/ damage (Doctor Strange, Kitty red).  Triggers are already built into the game.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    Seems obvious that even though whales may hate these characters, they will likely spend chasing them. They have to hold on to their top placement at all costs. 

    Whether or not the characters are broken is debatable, but I think from a revenue standpoint they are “working as designed”. 

    Fun, fair, etc... All that matters to the people cutting the checks is ROI. I imagine it is higher on “broken” characters than anywhere else.

    No idea why this is in a quote box.
  • LLohm
    LLohm Posts: 84 Match Maker
    My thoughts @fight4thedream and you’re free to keep yours if you still don’t find the sense behind it. Both sides to the coin.

    Whales don’t chase 4*. They’re byproducts of the act of chasing 5*.

    The time for spending in the 4* tier has long past even if its meta. 

    The sheer amount of pulls super whales need to cover those huge 550s are frequently enough to create more than a few maxed champed 4* via BH.

    I can’t speak on behalf of the mega whales but I am betting that if their 550s are easily squashed by Worthy Cap and Bishop teams, it brings into light the question of why bother with 550s. 

    Why did Demiurge try to relegate the worth of their 5* is more called into question. Once the shiniest trophies are trodden upon, it will result in loss of revenue as people don’t need or see the want to chase that anymore.

    The chase for a specific 4*, diluted as it is is never the equivalent of the chase of a 5*.

    To be more specific on hoarding, if players cannot find a 5* that tickles their fancy, buying will slow and people will just hoard instead. There are enough people walking around with 20k CP.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,303 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    An issue with the jump characters and damage thresholds is that you have a character like Grocket.  So at first I thought why couldn't you just code them to say if damage is greater than x but less than y, they jump.  This would allow 4* match damage to trigger them but not 5* and should be an easy code. But then I forgot about strike tiles from Grocket....one of the whole reasons these jump characters were made....which breaks that simple logical fix.....thanks Grocket!

    Honestly they need to make a 5* with a cheap, active power of 3 AP (pick your color).  Character X deals 2000 damage to target character and if a character jumps in front to absorb this damage they are automatically downed. This damage cannot be boosted by friendly tiles or allies powers and does not trigger allied passive powers.  Fixes all of your WorthyCap and Bishop problems.  Give the character two other decent abilities and you are set.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Warbringa said:
    An issue with the jump characters and damage thresholds is that you have a character like Grocket.  So at first I thought why couldn't you just code them to say if damage is greater than x but less than y, they jump.  This would allow 4* match damage to trigger them but not 5* and should be an easy code. But then I forgot about strike tiles from Grocket....one of the whole reasons these jump characters were made....which breaks that simple logical fix.....thanks Grocket!

    Honestly they need to make a 5* with a cheap, active power of 3 AP (pick your color).  Character X deals 2000 damage to target character and if a character jumps in front to absorb this damage they are automatically downed. This damage cannot be boosted by friendly tiles or allies powers and does not trigger allied passive powers.  Fixes all of your WorthyCap and Bishop problems.  Give the character two other decent abilities and you are set.
    Time to bring in 4* toad. At battle start he spits a sticky substance all over the battlefield that prevents opponents from moving around. Toad and his allies can still target whoever they choose.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    Warbringa said:
    An issue with the jump characters and damage thresholds is that you have a character like Grocket.  So at first I thought why couldn't you just code them to say if damage is greater than x but less than y, they jump.  This would allow 4* match damage to trigger them but not 5* and should be an easy code. But then I forgot about strike tiles from Grocket....one of the whole reasons these jump characters were made....which breaks that simple logical fix.....thanks Grocket!

    Honestly they need to make a 5* with a cheap, active power of 3 AP (pick your color).  Character X deals 2000 damage to target character and if a character jumps in front to absorb this damage they are automatically downed. This damage cannot be boosted by friendly tiles or allies powers and does not trigger allied passive powers.  Fixes all of your WorthyCap and Bishop problems.  Give the character two other decent abilities and you are set.
    Time to bring in 4* toad. At battle start he spits a sticky substance all over the battlefield that prevents opponents from moving around. Toad and his allies can still target whoever they choose.
    5* professor pull-my-finger should have had a passive that freezes the enemy team in place. he did it in the movies. would have made sense.
  • peterdark
    peterdark Posts: 151 Tile Toppler
    Does this mean the focus is no longer to nerf bishop? :)
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,991 Chairperson of the Boards
    LLohm said:
    My thoughts @fight4thedream and you’re free to keep yours if you still don’t find the sense behind it. Both sides to the coin.

    Whales don’t chase 4*. They’re byproducts of the act of chasing 5*.

    The time for spending in the 4* tier has long past even if its meta. 

    The sheer amount of pulls super whales need to cover those huge 550s are frequently enough to create more than a few maxed champed 4* via BH.

    I can’t speak on behalf of the mega whales but I am betting that if their 550s are easily squashed by Worthy Cap and Bishop teams, it brings into light the question of why bother with 550s. 

    Why did Demiurge try to relegate the worth of their 5* is more called into question. Once the shiniest trophies are trodden upon, it will result in loss of revenue as people don’t need or see the want to chase that anymore.

    The chase for a specific 4*, diluted as it is is never the equivalent of the chase of a 5*.

    To be more specific on hoarding, if players cannot find a 5* that tickles their fancy, buying will slow and people will just hoard instead. There are enough people walking around with 20k CP.
    To be honest @Llohm, it was presumptuous on my part to assume I understood the mentality of mega whales. I don't.

    Looking back on my response to your initial post, I can see it was more a reflection of my own values and views of the game than any sort of legitimate analysis of mega whale spending. You bring up a legitimate question on the value of max champing 5*s in a meta where such teams are defeated by significantly lower level teams, whether it be Okoye/Thor or a 4*/5* combo.

    Thanks for taking the time to clarify your thoughts.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    just tried a hawkcap team in shield sim class of 2015. i knew i was going to lose, but i thought i'd try bishop + gritty. to see what would happen.

    my team was stun-locked after 3 turns and downed in 5. yeah. i think the first run of galactus was more fair... 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Since Hawkcap is going to spam powers, Dr Strange would be a natural choice to deal with them. Strange+GotG should take Cap down once two or three powers are fired. 

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