*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

Hood's not as good vs goons as he is vs board movers, he does better when there's lots of colors to nab. He's not that bad against them though, he does slow them down and the tile destruction can really help.

Rebalanced three stars tend to suck after fun balancing. The only ones that have gotten a pass and remained decent are all 2 stars, probably so as not to scare off new players. Ruining three stars doesn't seem to be a concern since theonly thing that matters is that new cards inspire spending.

Polares

Moon 17 wrote:

Polares wrote:

I have been using Spidey after the nerf with LThor and CMagneto in PvE and it has its uses, specially against goons (where the Hood is not that usefull). In PvP I think he is not good enough to be in my roster.

Hood isn't good against goons? I mean, he isn't my first choice, but he can steal all kinds of AP against auto-generators and his yellow clears an awful lot of tiles. He isn't necessarily as fast as I would like (I still use M Storm, Cap, and Moonstone for all goons fights, actually), but I've found him to have a lot of good anti-mook mojo in certain situations. Paired decently with GSBW and (insert third) for a few recent PvE adventures.

Editing this in because I got distracted: the adjustment period was probably a lie, anyway. They made the decision they wanted to make about Spiderman's functionality, they implemented it, and there is likely never going to be any further adjustment to his character. I mean, if they were really serious about fixing mistakes in the game, Ragnarok would have a third power by now. (Not saying that Spiderman now is quite as bad as Ragnarok...oh, wait...that's what I'm saying.)

Yep it is more or less what Impulse said, in my experience Hood is not that good with goons because they usually use just one to three colors, and they generate a lot of 'mana' each turn for them so they are more difficult to slow down, and maybe the colors you will get from them are not the ones you need. He is just not as usefull as with standard teams.

And about the other point, well, in fact Spidey was rebalanced after the nerf. I don't know if it was just because they went to far in the nerfing, but they made some changes to the original nerfing. So, it is very clear that they made a mistake with web tiles cost vs utility with the new powers, so I though that maybe, very improbable, but maybe they where going to adjust web tile generation for the blue power.

Unknown

Fair, but the party line is that that change to his protect tile strength was a glitch fix and not a rebalance. His high strength protect tiles were allegedly supposed to be that way from the (new) beginning.

Unknown

D3, have you notice that no one has voted for spiderman in the recent pool to "Which characters win more often on defense?"
You nerfed him too much! Came on!

Spoit

Moon 17 wrote:

Fair, but the party line is that that change to his protect tile strength was a glitch fix and not a rebalance. His high strength protect tiles were allegedly supposed to be that way from the (new) beginning.

To be fair, that was the only way that would actually make sense. Which is why it's mystifying that IceIX didn't catch it when he did the write up

Unknown

Yeah. I'm at least 70% confident that that's really what happened. Since that version of the truth supports my point, though, I didn't want to present it as if it were absolute fact.

Spoit

panicellu wrote:

D3, have you notice that no one has voted for spiderman in the recent pool to "Which characters win more often on defense?"
You nerfed him too much! Came on!

You never won with him on defense before the nerf

over_clocked

I lost at least twice to the pre-nerf Spider-Man. Once I even fielded my fully-covered Magneto. I will never live that one down.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

panicellu wrote:

D3, have you notice that no one has voted for spiderman in the recent pool to "Which characters win more often on defense?"
You nerfed him too much! Came on!

You never won with him on defense before the nerf

Before the nerf, I'd win on D using my Spidey/Magneto/whoever team.

I'm barely playing the game nowadays, but I still win on defense in the shield simulator running 141 Punisher/120ish Spidey/120ish Magneto.

Spoit

MikeHock wrote:

Spoit wrote:

panicellu wrote:

D3, have you notice that no one has voted for spiderman in the recent pool to "Which characters win more often on defense?"
You nerfed him too much! Came on!

You never won with him on defense before the nerf

Before the nerf, I'd win on D using my Spidey/Magneto/whoever team.

I'm barely playing the game nowadays, but I still win on defense in the shield simulator running 141 Punisher/120ish Spidey/120ish Magneto.

You must still be in the 2* MMR then, because that is not even a slightly intimidating team

Unknown

It feels like, now that Spider-Man's Web Bandages no longer count as "True Healing" that he no longer serves a purpose.

His Yellow can't be used for prolonged pushes.
His Blue stun isn't very strong, and CMags outclasses it anyway.
His purple protect tiles are nice, but that's his only draw.

It feels like at this point, Spiderman players might as well swap in Falcon and use him instead.

theshadeofopal

Any thoughts on what his new yellow should be? Obviously at 12, the temporary healing is a terrible deal, even if it overcharged, which it doesn't sound like will be the case. Cutting it down to 7-9 might keep it useful.

So spider tracers maybe, large damage increase to a given target? Impact webbing, maybe stun/damage? Stingers that increase as health decreases? Can't really think of anything to take advantage of web tiles logically but i guess devour doesn't make a whole lotta sense anyway.

Unknown

Finally spiderman is truly balanced. It was close before this patch, but now he is perfectly balanced. Good work! There had to be a way to get DD to no longer be the only balanced 3* cover.

"Vayhle, you keep using that word, balanced. I don't think it means what you think it means"

Unknown

I was going to write under the other spiderman thread, but it got locked. I'm hoping I"m not wasting my time writing this.

I thought he was previously over-nerfed from overpowered to the weakest 3*, but with the healing change, he is going to start to make a lot of re-appearances into rosters. With the premium now placed on limiting damage received, shields (to decrease damage) and stuns (to stop attacks) increase in value, and spidey has both. Throw in the new healing mechanic, and spidey is going to be invaluable to every team. While he can no longer "true heal", he can save "true damage." This is because damage comes out of "temp healing" before it comes out of players "true health." For example, if you go in with 500 true health, temp heal up to 800 health, take 200 points of damage, you still come out with 500 true health.

Of course, what was true before is true now. He still covers purple, yellow, and blue in the AP rainbow.

Hence, while spidey is not the most powerful 3*, I'm pretty sure he's one of the most valuable again. Pretty sure the best build now is 3/5/5.

That said, it sucks if you sold him after the nerf. Good luck recollecting all those covers.

*Sigh* Time to cross fingers and hope the thread does not get insta-locked.

Kelbris

Kind of in the wrong section, but it's a unique topic (Spoderman's effectiveness) so you're probably safe

He's still kind of ****; he mostly slows down fights and speed is very important in the current meta

Unknown

Hmm...do you know how I can move it, so it does not get locked?

Unknown

He still has the problem that by the time you get to 12 yellow or 15 Blue AP you likely would have taken less damage overall by collecting AP to do damage

Unknown

Speed is important in the meta because there's an unending assault by your competitors that's supported by prologue healing. With prologue healing gone, they might not be able to mount as many assaults compared to before. It wouldn't have any effect on the teams that do not need healing, but it's not like anything ever stopped the teams that won in 10 turns or less.

That said I don't see OBW being displaced as the premier support character anytime soon and I don't think Spiderman offers enough to over OBW at the moment. I guess I'll have to see how the games actually play out, because OBW has a high chance of tanking blue/purple/black, and almost certainly must tank the first two to get the most out of her. I remember having a lot of games where she'd take 1500 damage just from match 3s accumulated while you're collecting blue/purple and that'd mean you'll have to start the next fight at about 1500 HP with the new changes, which is awfully scary. Spiderman would obviously take care of himself pretty well with Spider-sense, but brings no meaningful offense unlike OBW.

Cragger

I JUST JUST JUST respecced him to five yellow because blue got hit so hard. I was under the assumption that the devs were all buy TELLING us to do it with the abundance of yellow covers available last week. There was the bracket prize, alliance prize, and 1100 prize. And now days later I really really really want the limited stun utility back. Especially with level 200 Juggs nodes firing every 2.5 hours.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

He still has the problem that by the time you get to 12 yellow or 15 Blue AP you likely would have taken less damage overall by collecting AP to do damage

Spider sense absolutely shuts down match 3 damage. The question is do you still end up taking more damage from the AP consuming damage by running Spiderman instead of OBW, who can no longer heal as well but can still do AR which cuts off the biggest source of incoming damage, the AP consuming moves. But with the healing nerf people will finally notice that match 3 damage is a lot more than you think and it definitely piles up on OBW.