*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • I usually take him out first because otherwise he elongates fights. Can't have that when I'm shield-hopping.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    My standard recommendation on Spidey:

    Get rid of web tiles. Completely.

    Get rid of his healing ability. He's not a healer, it makes no sense, and since the healing changes it's gone from amazing to nigh-useless.

    Make his stun ability a straight effect based on covers, similar to 1* Black Widow's (not necessarily the same, that would probably be too much).

    Rebalance his purple slightly for the loss of web tiles. This part is easy.

    Replace the now-deleted healing ability with an actual attack. Something low cost and with additional utility. For example, 6 yellow AP (there are very few inexpensive yellow skills, this could be an interesting meta change) to do moderate damage and give a secondary support effect. For example: "Spider-Man swings into battle, kicking the enemy for ~1500 damage and firing his webs to slow their attack, destroying up to 3 enemy strike tiles." Increase damage with levels and covers and number of strike tiles destroyed with covers.

    Spider-Man needs an offensive ability. He's not a cannon, but he is a powerful fighter.

    Who's the most popular Marvel character of all time?

    SpideyAretha.jpg
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    (Actually on reflection, having the same character create protect tiles and destroy enemy strike tiles might be a bit much, but you get the idea.)
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Having also never being able to use him. Mine was stuck at 5/0/5 forever until this tourney, now I got him 4/4/5. I can say that having not experienced perma-stun spidey this version is not bad, but 2 things need to be done and 1 of them has 2 options. First and forements, drop the cost of yellow, it's too high for what it does now.

    2. and this is the biggest either have blue do 2 stuns out of the gate, or allow blue to create 2 webtiles

    3. and this is an outside chance, leave blue the same, but allow a purple match to create both a shield and random yellow web tile on matches. Blue still creates them, but now you would have a lot of tiles to deal with and blue can become a powerhouse.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    23cdc669-77e1-4a1d-8b0c-d736520b51e7_zps7a1b510c.jpg

    Now it's no secret that I'm a really big Spidey fan! (off topic: And one of the few that think ASM2 is the best Spider-man movie ever!)
    So i just wanted to take a moment to thank the devs for finally shining the spotlight on our friendly neighborhood webslinger. We currently have the wallcrawler going toe-to-toe with the Hulk in the pVe (of course with some help from Punisher et anyone who has the actual firepower to take the Gamma Goliath down) and his covers are currently the main prize in the Hollowpoint Kiss tourney which i'm assuming will mean he will be the featured character for the next pvp. So obviously (and despite my forum knowledge of his current mediocre status in the MPQ universe), i'm super stoked!o(*^▽^*)o~♪

    Not only did i get lucky and pull a blue spidey cover in one of the event tokens but i also have a good shot at getting his purple cover and finally having him fully covered! [yeah, yeah but you won't have him at his best build. Everyone knows that if you are going to run spidey at all you need him at 5 purple. <Silence! I know this man! You got to learn how to crawl before you can walk! Baby steps dude, baby steps!>]

    *ahem*

    Sorry about that. Anywhoo, i had the strange misfortune (or perhaps good fortune?) of starting MPQ early February right after they gave away Spider-man covers like candy on Halloween. Well after that, there was no more candy! For like 5.25 months!! i waited and waited and waited, and occasionally i was blessed with the always welcome token surprise. And now finally the day has come where i can have him fully covered! (plus GSBW if i can find the time to do both pVp and pVe. And of course no disrespect to that lovely, deadly lady! She was my first 3* cover <3)

    However, having come this far and having a good go with him in the pVe has opened my eyes to the realization that Spidey is a support character in this game at best. For better or worse, i did not have the stun-lock god experience that he was in his prime (but from what i understand he was definitely OP and boring to play with/against). Nor am i asking for those days back. i just want to ask the mighty gaming gods to bestow upon our hero the power to not only stun and defend but also the power to attack!!! タタタタッッ≡≡≡≡≡ヾ(  ̄ヘ ̄)θケリ!★)゚3゚)゚ away with you fiend!

    i know IceIX has mentioned they are monitoring Spidey and i hope that he is still a work in progress. my ideal is not to have Spidey be the most powerful character in the game (well if it's black suit Spider-man...< that's a different story>) but something akin to the Punisher, a well balanced character who is perfect for those players transitioning from 2* to the 3* level. i'm grateful to the Punisher and his wonderful tag-team partner OBW for getting me this far but i hope that someday Spidey can have that kind of role too. It doesn't have to be today, it doesn't have to be tomorrow but someday (hopefully sooner rather than later but someday!!)

    So please devs, make Spider-Man Amazing!★

    Now if you ladies and gentlemen will excuse me, i have some Hulk busting and Spider-man covers to fight for!! <3

    Your True Believer,
    fight4thedream

    Our experience in MPQ have many parallels. I started playing around the same time period. Ok, my random pulls have given me a Spider man with 4/3/5 now, but that's only after the progression reward & rewards, and I too have a special place in my roster for GSBW as she was my 1st 3* (I spent HP on a single Heroic Recruit Token BEFORE my 1st roster slot expansion and pulled her.) Punisher was also my 1st Maxed 3* character and pre-True-Healing his paring with OBW carried me to many a victory.
  • I just read an idea on the * Storm * Character thread that would fix spiderman pretty easily.
    My druthers, and no one asked me, would be for Web-Bandages to be replaced with "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" that collected TU tiles, and for Storm's power to be tile shattering/cascade generating, but not focused on TU tiles.

    This! So much this!!!!

    The ability to equip Spiderman with attack powers he fuels with yellow matches as a team friendly guy would be awesome. Hell, just rename Storm's power, give it to Spiderman, and give storm something else on yellow that's element related. Lightning strike for single target damage or something.
  • From the *Storm (Modern)* thread:
    My problem, and yes, I understand it makes me *that guy* is Why on earth is Storm the person who's better at team-ups than anyone else? I get that's it's a straight power-swap, replacing Env shattering with TU shattering, but now it no longer makes sense for the character. I don't have a problem with how the power works, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for that power to be on that character.

    As a quick thought experiment: if we wanted to introduce a power into the game that made a character better at teaming-up, we could go to the source material and see what characters that power would be appropriate for. So, if you do a quick Google Image Search for "Marvel Team-up". Tell me what character you see the most often on covers for that book. You won't have to do any in-depth statistical analysis, or even any counting. (Spoiler: Spider-Man is the character common to 90% of those covers.)

    My druthers, and no one asked me, would be for Web-Bandages to be replaced with "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" that collected TU tiles, and for Storm's power to be tile shattering/cascade generating, but not focused on TU tiles.

    I want this for Spiderman SOOOO bad. He needs some offensive boost, and Web Bandages is horrible now. Toss Web Bandages in the rubbish bin, steal M.Storm's yellow and call it "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man", and give storm a decent yellow power that's related to the actual ELEMENTS for Mistress of the Elements.
  • Kelbris
    Kelbris Posts: 1,051
    DayvBang wrote:
    My standard recommendation on Spidey:

    Get rid of web tiles. Completely.

    Get rid of his healing ability. He's not a healer, it makes no sense, and since the healing changes it's gone from amazing to nigh-useless.

    Make his stun ability a straight effect based on covers, similar to 1* Black Widow's (not necessarily the same, that would probably be too much).

    Rebalance his purple slightly for the loss of web tiles. This part is easy.

    Replace the now-deleted healing ability with an actual attack. Something low cost and with additional utility. For example, 6 yellow AP (there are very few inexpensive yellow skills, this could be an interesting meta change) to do moderate damage and give a secondary support effect. For example: "Spider-Man swings into battle, kicking the enemy for ~1500 damage and firing his webs to slow their attack, destroying up to 3 enemy strike tiles." Increase damage with levels and covers and number of strike tiles destroyed with covers.

    Spider-Man needs an offensive ability. He's not a cannon, but he is a powerful fighter.

    Who's the most popular Marvel character of all time?

    SpideyAretha.jpg

    I'm gonna quote this everywhere. Just going to throw it at the beginning of posts.
  • Kelbris
    Kelbris Posts: 1,051
    Lerysh wrote:
    I just read an idea on the * Storm * Character thread that would fix spiderman pretty easily.
    My druthers, and no one asked me, would be for Web-Bandages to be replaced with "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" that collected TU tiles, and for Storm's power to be tile shattering/cascade generating, but not focused on TU tiles.

    This! So much this!!!!

    The ability to equip Spiderman with attack powers he fuels with yellow matches as a team friendly guy would be awesome. Hell, just rename Storm's power, give it to Spiderman, and give storm something else on yellow that's element related. Lightning strike for single target damage or something.

    Tornado: Does damage and shuffles x tiles.

    Acid Rain: Does x AoE damage and turns Y tiles green. (Something low like 4)

    Storm should be the master of controlling the board.
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2014
    No offense, but despite what the movies may have you believe, Spidey is a support character. Usually, he uses science or his smarts to defeat his enemies. He does not beat them to a pulp like Thor/Hulk or blast them like Iron Man/Punisher. Your own pic kind of proves that point.

    I do think spidey is undervalued, but that was becuase he went from overpowered to underpowered instead of just to average. Probably, if the purple had not been based on number of web tiles in play and/or created a web tile , it would have been closer to average. He really is just on the cusp of being usable, it would only take a tweak.

    However, he will not be doing massive damage any time soon. That said, stunning a WR countdown or Sentry pre-Supernova is not a bad ability.

    *Spidey-Fan mode: ON*

    You and i are going to have agree to disagree amigo. Spider-Man is definitely not a support character (outside of MPQ that is). Yes, he generally uses science and his smarts to defeat his enemies but it's also not uncommon for him to throwdown and layeth the smackdown. He even has his own fighting style: The Way of the Spider. In short, he may not pack quite the punch that Thor or Hulk do but he is by no measure a eunuch in terms of offensive power. \|  ̄ヘ ̄|/___θ☆( *o*)/take that villain!

    [must resist urge to spam thread with images of Spidey laying the smackdown. must resist urge to spam thread with images of Spidey laying the smackdown. must resist]

    *Spidey-Fan mode: OFF*

    With that all being said, i do realize that Spidey predominantly fights to protect and save the day. You know "With great power comes great responsibility". If the devs are determined to keep Spidey a "defensive" character, then i think it only appropriate that his yellow be changed to reflect this. So after doing some thinking i offer this humble suggestion for his yellow:

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility -Yellow Passive
    Spidey sees that his super friends are in trouble and swings into action to minimize the damage, reducing the damage of AoE damage by 25%
    Level Upgrades

    Level 2: Spider-Man! Spider-Man! Spidey's web reduces damage by 30%!
    Level 3: Does whatever a spider can! Spidey's web reduces damage by 35%!
    Level 4: Spins a web any size! Spidey's web reduces damage by 45%!
    Level 5: Look out! Here comes the Spider-Man! Spidey's web reduces damage by 65%!


    It occurred to me that currently there are no powers that significantly reduce the damage done specifically by AoE attacks. Now, honestly, i much rather prefer the "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" skill mentioned here (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14167&start=20#p207134) coupled with some actual intermediate level attack for around 6 Yellow AP as i'd rather him not be a neutralized version of his amazing self but it could open up the doors to actual defensive play in this game (as the only legitimate form of defense seems to be shields). Not only that, i think in terms of build it could open up different combination possibilities. [I will just hope that Black suit Spider-Man is an all offensive type character to make up for it lol]

    i have a sneaking suspicion that this power might fall into the OP zone, but considering how there are no OP defensive skills in this game it might be able to balance out the arguably OP AoE skills of certain characters. (not going to mention names, but i think you know who? harhar)

    Those are my two cents on the yellow power issue. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated! icon_e_smile.gif
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    El_Dude wrote:
    Awesome artwork in the opening post. Anyone know where that's from or who did it?

    Spidey is annoying to face but PvE has given me a new appreciation for him. Facing him in PvP tho is a slog. The enemy throws up shields. I throw up shields. Then it's just -1 damage for several turns until cleared. The matches feel like they take 3x longer.

    http://www.christiannauck.com/

    Ask and you shall receive, el muchacho! Ask and you shall receive! ゙☆⌒o(*^ー゚)v
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    i have a sneaking suspicion that this power might fall into the OP zone, but considering how there are no OP defensive skills in this game...


    I take it you've never played against C.Mags in a relatively Blue board. I think the worst was in a PvE that he was being fed Blue by one of the Goons. When max level Molotov Cocktail does 1 damage right after using Judgement, I would say that's an OP defensive ability.
  • That's more of a broken combo than an OP defensive ability. Goons feeding AP to ANYONE tends to result in lopsided battles of some kind.
  • Top post needs updated. Still has Spiderman maxing out at 141.
  • So, Spiderman's blue and yellow are pretty useless. For a signature hero, he needs a bump up in usefulness. The older dynamics of creating webs and consuming them for healing are pretty outdated - they could use a facelift. I kind of like the create webs dynamic, but it isn't working right.

    Maybe something like:

    Yellow (9 yellow)
    1. Reduce (2 tiles) strength of enemy strike tiles by X
    2. Reduce (2 tiles) strength of enemy strike, attack, or defense tiles by X
    3. Reduce (2 + # of web tiles) strength of enemy strike, attack, or defense tiles by X
    4. Reduce (2 + # of web tiles) strength of enemy strike, attack, or defense tiles by 2*X
    5. Reduce (2 + # of web tiles) strength of enemy strike, attack, or defense tiles by 2*X, tiles that go negative change to ownership and become X strength tiles

    Blue (6 blue)
    1. if countdowns exist, add 1 to all countdowns otherwise steal 2 random AP; create a web tile
    2. if countdowns exist, add 1 to all countdowns otherwise steal 3 random AP; create a web tile
    3. stun target for 1 turn, if countdowns exist, add 1 to all countdowns otherwise steal 3 random AP; create a web tile
    4. stun target for 1 turn, if countdowns exist, add 1 to all countdowns otherwise steal 3 random AP; create a web tile
    5. Stun entire enemy team for 1 turn, add 1 to all countdowns, and steal 3 random AP; create 2 web tiles
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blue is perfectly serviceable as it is and I use Spidey very frequently. Once I hit 15 blue, it's easy to keep two characters stunned for long enough to kill them. People just cannot get over the fact that he's no longer a cheap perma-stun machine, months after the nerf. Having said that, yellow is indeed near-useless and could benefit from a rework (as all non-true healing abilities could). However, there are several other characters in much more urgent necessity of a buff and I'd be kind of jarred of seeing Spidey getting the attention instead.
  • IamTheDanger
    IamTheDanger Posts: 1,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree that Spidey's yellow needs a serious overhaul. However, his blue is okay like it is. After all, there are far worse powers in the game atm. Plus, Spidey needs to keep his ability to generate web tiles so Venom's Devour will be usable. Venom's Devour has saved my shiny hiney more than once. Especially against buffed Hulk at 200 or 300 levels. Or you can pair Spidey with Bullseye for a ton of protect tiles. If your 3rd character is strong enough, (like a high level Patch, Big Thor, or Hulk), then you could do very well while taking little damage.

    Spidey may not be the "best" character in the game, but he has his uses. Except for his yellow. In all the months I've been playing MPQ, I might have used his yellow heal less than a dozen times. It really, Really needs to be changed. Maybe a damage ability. Spidey has super strength for crying out loud, let him use it already.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 871 Critical Contributor
    blueflag.png is just fine. Though it really needs to be at 5 covers to be able to stunlock.
    yellowflag.png was fine too before True Healing ™ change.
    Now, it should cost 6 AP and heal 1/4 to 1/3 the amount it does now. Let it "eat up" 1-2 web tiles for bonus heal. Or tweak those numbers more. The most important thing is to lower the cost. That could make it usable, until some better skill is found as his third.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    I've found uses for his heal. It comes in handy with True Healing characters, notably, Patch. But I'd like to see it changed. It just doesn't feel like Spidey.

    I also hate that it automatically eats web tiles! I don't see why Spidey needs to self-regulate his web tiles post-nerf. It's silly too, why remove yellow web tiles by using a power that already required matching yellow tiles.

    I'd rather he have bag-man's web-slinger power than the healing. He could at least enhance his protect tiles that way.
  • Remove Web Bandages, take Storm's yellowflag.png , give it to Spiderman and call it Friendly Neighbourhood Spiderman. Spiderman pretty highly ranked in the Superhero Teamup category. He will Team Up with anyone. So can his terrible yellow and make him TU friendly. Change Storm to have a huge number single target damage skill for Yellow called Cyclone or something. Done. Spiderman is now fully playable, and useful to many teams lacking a Purple power. Or even change her back to Red/Green/Black and make it a Red power that does mass damage. She becomes very similar to Torch if this happens but whatever.