*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    His blue is okayish, but I still look in askance at people who say that you can actually stun lock with it. Much less with more than 1 character.

    Assuming you have 3 webs out, you still need to average 1.6 bluetile.png matches every 3 turns to maintain a stunlock.
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 828 Critical Contributor
    Kolence wrote:
    blueflag.png is just fine. Though it really needs to be at 5 covers to be able to stunlock.
    Spoit wrote:
    His blue is okayish, but I still look in askance at people who say that you can actually stun lock with it. Much less with more than 1 character.

    Assuming you have 3 webs out, you still need to average 1.6 bluetile.png matches every 3 turns to maintain a stunlock.

    If it was not aimed at my comment in any part, sorry. Just in case, I'll try to be more precise.

    Blue really needs to be at 5 covers to be able to stunlock 1 opponent mostly reliably (but certainly not always and not indefinitely, just long enough to finish the fight) or 2 opponents a little less reliably and with the help of MMN and/or IM40 (preferably 5 purple, 2 yellow covers) and/or Capt. Marvel (preferably 5 black covers). In both cases I thought it implicitly clear that it would be possible late in the game, not from the start. But, anyway, it's not necessary to maintain an absolute stunlock. If the opponent gets to miss 75+% of his turns after a pivotal point in a match, that means all but a guaranteed win.

    I've tried playing Spidey with these teams where his stun is kind of part of the strategy and not just a helpful bonus sometimes:
    Patch/Loki
    Punisher/Venom
    GSBW/Marvel
    MMN/IM40 - specifically to try and stunlock, for PvE fights against Devil Dino for instance.
  • SpoitSpoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    I still say that if you want to have a not-stunlock, the 2/3 stun time on icon_captainamerica.png is vastly superior. For one it doesn't cost 15 AP to just start going and 2) it leaves behind a massive protect.png that pretty much voids match damage.

    also, he can actually deal damage
  • john1620bjohn1620b Posts: 367
    Once they lazy-ify Bullseye and add a 3* character for him, I'm hoping they'll change Spiderman's purple so it's less redundant. Something like this would be cool:
      Spider-Sense - Purple PASSIVE
      Spider-Man's senses tingle and he moves to protect his team. When his team matches Purple tiles, a random enemy Attack tile is removed from the board.
        Level 2: Can also remove Protect tiles. Level 3: Can also remove Strike tiles. Level 4: Can also remove Countdown tiles. Level 5: Can remove any Special tile, including Trap tiles.

      Yes, that makes him pretty powerful, but given how weak he is right now, doesn't he deserve a bit of his old glory? icon_e_biggrin.gif Level 5 could maybe do without the Trap tiles, but it would make him a semi-useful counter to Fury. (And Daredevil, of course, who needs more characters that counter him). icon_lol.gif
    • Seasick PirateSeasick Pirate Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
      Is Spidey completely worthless? I have a 3/5/5 Spidey but never had enough covers pre-nerf to ever use him.
      Post-nerf I only ever hear how pitiful he is. He's rarely featured so I haven't felt the need to level him up.

      I'm temped to bring him up around 130~140 just for his even. Just not sure how often I'd use him afterword since I have a decent 3-star character roster.
    • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
      Is Spidey completely worthless? I have a 3/5/5 Spidey but never had enough covers pre-nerf to ever use him.
      Post-nerf I only ever hear how pitiful he is. He's rarely featured so I haven't felt the need to level him up.

      I'm temped to bring him up around 130~140 just for his even. Just not sure how often I'd use him afterword since I have a decent 3-star character roster.

      I have never used him ever unless he is featured / required, and i dont plan on doing so. That being said, you need him at a high level to defensive scarecrow his pvp, so you might as well if you are overflowing with iso.
    • PuceMoosePuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
      Is Spidey completely worthless? I have a 3/5/5 Spidey but never had enough covers pre-nerf to ever use him.
      Post-nerf I only ever hear how pitiful he is. He's rarely featured so I haven't felt the need to level him up.

      I'm temped to bring him up around 130~140 just for his even. Just not sure how often I'd use him afterword since I have a decent 3-star character roster.

      I use him all the time post-nerf, and never used him before the nerf (granted, that was because I only had one blue cover for months). He can shut down match damage, and steal's Sentry's lunch money if you can get a few purple matches out before World Rupture goes off (and if you manage to keep sacrifice off the board.) You'll actually *want* World Rupture to go off if you have at least a few protect tiles out, as you'll take one damage per rupture and the enemy will take a bunch. Let the enemy sentry match green all it wants! The protect tiles work regardless if the enemy team is siphoning your purple via Hood, and help to reduce the sting of Lazy Daken a bit.

      That said, he is slow, his yellow is awful, and his blue is conditionally useful. I've managed to stop an adamantium slash/aggressive recon/call the storm to the face with a timely stun, so it has saved my bacon on numerous occasions.

      Keep in mind that I am not a "top-tier" player (I think the highest I've scored in PvP is 838, and I never shield hop), but I think he's still interesting in the mid-tier, and can help you climb since he reduces damage so well. Patch/Punisher/Psylocke + Spiderman + Falcon is extremely (and deceptively) irritating to fight against if you're not using the usual maxed monster teams, and the board can get away from an attacker in a hurry if things go south (that combo has earned me quite a few defensive wins). I have had an excellent time with Patch + Classic Magneto + Spiderman (and of course, Patch, Classic Magneto, Hood, or Patch, Lazy Captain, Spiderman/Falcon). Falcon is fun, as it's definitely grin worthy to have a 1,287 strength protect tile or two out and take 1 damage from most attacks.

      *EDIT* Just because it's appropriate, I remember that I was idly thinking about some power changes to him earlier - to rework his yellow and tweak his blue a bit. Random ideas:
      All Tied Up - Blue 5 bluetile.png
      Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
      Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist. Drains 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist. Steals 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists. Drains 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color, then steals 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist. Steals 2 AP in the enemy's strongest color.


      Yellow:
      yellowflag.png 9
      Web Slam
      Spiderman uses his powerful web-spinners to sling the targeted enemy into the rest of the enemy team.
      Level 1: Deals 10% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 150 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 2: Deals 13% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 175 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 3: Deals 16% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 200 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 4: Deals 19% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 225 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 5: Deals 25% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 250 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Max Level: 1850 base damage
    • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,436 Chairperson of the Boards
      edited November 2014
      strength1a_zpsaa40d60c.jpg

      It took me 288 days but finally i have been able to get the ideal spec for Spider-Man! ヾ(〃^∇^)ノわぁい♪

      As the founder, leader and sole member of the Buff Spider-Man Brigade (currently recruiting!) i would like to take this opportunity to ask the devs for a Spider-Man buff. i understand they are busy with the new event end times feature, new characters, new pVes and of course new characters but i just ask them not to forget about Spider-Man.

      Seeing how Dr. Unpleasant and the Euro United Front were able to get the devs to address their request for different end times through perseverance, i too, shall continue to fight for my cause! Honestly, the only issue i have with the current Spider-Man is his yellow power. The devs have stated that they try to make sure the game characters retain the flavor of their comic book counterparts but i think they have missed the mark with Spider-Man. Even in his OP stun lock glory days, you often hear players say he was the least exciting or *ahem* most boring OP character in the game. Boring?! What's this? Every one knows that Spidey is supposed to be "Amazing".

      So once again, i ask the devs to please make Spider-Man Amazing!

      Spider-man is not known for healing. Of course he has enhanced spider-healing for himself but he can't use that to help others. He may not be as strong as the Hulk or Thor but my golly Ms. Molly he is definitely stronger than Captain America, Black Panther, and Wolverine (please refer to: http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale) yet they pack a stronger punch than my man Spider-man! Not only that, both Captain America and Black Panther have 8500 HP while Spider-man is left with 6800 HP. At the very least, he should be set on par with these fine two gentlemen in terms of health points. Spider-Man can take a beating amigos. Outside of those with incredible healing factors, i don't think any other marvel superhero has taken as many brutal beatings as Spider-Man.

      So if possible, please bump up his HP to at least 8500.

      I think his purple and blue powers are fine as is. It's his yellow that leaves him a low mid-tier character and not amazing. There is more to Spider-Man than simply shooting webs and swinging around the neighborhood. When it's time to throw down, Spidey is not afraid to lay the smackdown!

      spideymorlunfight_zps1107ca4f.jpg

      He is quick, agile and considered a 20 Ton fighter (although he has demonstrated feats beyond the 20 ton range). He has even developed his own fighting style called The Way of the Spider (http://marvel.wikia.com/Way_of_the_Spider). So I believe his yellow power should reflect this. Considering the dearth of yellow power skills that pack a punch (Thunderstrike and Avengers Assemble are the only ones that come to mind) i think a decent yellow attack ability will help round him out and make him a decent top-mid tier character.

      So in honor of this day, i would like to suggest his yellow be changed:

      With Great Power - 3AP
      Spidey swings into battle using his spider-sense, spider-speed and spider-strength to deal fierce attacks on the enemy while singing the Spider-Man theme song. Initial damage 1000. Also, deals AOE damage of 30% of attack with 1 web tile on board, 60% of attack with 2 web tiles on board, and 90% of attack with 3 web tiles on the board [Swing kick animation]
      Level Upgrades

      Level 2: Spider-Man! Spider-Man! Second attack increases damage to 1500.
      Level 3: Does whatever a spider can! Third attack increases damage to 2000.
      Level 4: Spins a web any size! Fourth attack increases damage to 2500. [face stomp animation]
      Level 5: Look out! Here comes the Spider-Man! Fifth attack increases damage to 3500. [Spidey slams enemy with manhole cover like in ASM2]

      The attack increase will be incremental and if possible should include different animations:
      1st use of 3 AP does the initial 1000 damage and the Spider-man swinging kick attack animation
      2nd use of 3 AP 1500 damage and left hook punch animation
      3rd use of 3 AP 2500 damage and right upper cut animation
      and so on

      If you have reached the final attack Spidey Slam attack at 15 Yellow AP then it resets so the next attack at the use of 18 Yellow AP will go back to 1000 damage and the swinging animation.

      Spider-Man's attacks should be quick, strong and focused and i believe this would definitely put the "Amazing" into Spider-Man. i know other people have some great ideas as well so i will try to collect them and post them in this thread too but please feel free to share your thoughts, ideas, criticisms or comments or simple love for our friendly neighborhood wall crawler.

      i look forward to the day when players from every corner of the globe can say that Spider-man is fun to play! And as always, thank you devs for your hard work and for making such a great game. Looking forward to the end times change and hope it goes smoothly and without much fuss! And to everyone else, see out there in the battle zone!゙☆⌒o(*^ー゚)v

      A true believer,
      fight4thedream

      P.S.~for those interested in the strength scale comic found at the top (http://captaincomics.ning.com/forum/top ... ans-of-the)

      EDITED TO ADD: Reduced the final attack power level to 3500 and included Lidolas idea about having web tiles create an AOE effect.

      tldr: OP just wants Spider-Man to be amazing. He asked for HP buff 6800--->8500 and a change in Spidey's yellow power to a viable attack power. Currently recruiting for the Buff Spider-Man Brigade and We <3 Spidey team.
    • fight4thedreamfight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,436 Chairperson of the Boards
      edited November 2014
      place holder for collection of Spidey buff ideas past, present and future.(^ー'*)b

      Yellow Power Buff:

      Web Slam
      Puce Moose wrote:
      Yellow:
      yellowflag.png 9
      Web Slam
      Spiderman uses his powerful web-spinners to sling the targeted enemy into the rest of the enemy team.
      Level 1: Deals 10% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 150 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 2: Deals 13% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 175 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 3: Deals 16% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 200 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 4: Deals 19% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 225 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 5: Deals 25% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 250 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Max Level: 1850 base damage

      Original Post: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=786&start=400#p251300

      Sticky Situation
      Red Panda wrote:
      Sticky Situation - 8 AP (wow it's hard to write in yellow and have it be legible)
      Sticky Situation - 8 AP
      Spider-Man swings into action landing a devastating blow, dealing 85 damage. Costs 1 AP less per web tile on the board (minimum cost 5 AP)
      Level 2: Deals 120 damage
      Level 3: If target is stunned, deals an additional 50 damage
      Level 4: Deals 180 base damage
      Level 5: If target is stunned, deals an additional 80 damage
      Max Level: Deals 1200 base damage, if target is stunned deals an additional 600 damage

      So it would be tricky to maintain yellow web tiles while trying to keep spamming the ability, so it shouldn't lead to an exploit. Maybe Blade's Nightstalker would turn this into a neat combo if the enemy's strongest color is yellow

      Original post: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19292#p251912


      Friendly neighbhorhood Spider-Man

      My druthers, and no one asked me, would be for Web-Bandages to be replaced with "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" that collected TU tiles, and for Storm's power to be tile shattering/cascade generating, but not focused on TU tiles.

      Original post: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51&p=207133&hilit=+Friendly+Neighborhood#p200974

      Davy Bang's Spider Attack
      DayvBang wrote:
      Replace the now-deleted healing ability with an actual attack. Something low cost and with additional utility. For example, 6 yellow AP (there are very few inexpensive yellow skills, this could be an interesting meta change) to do moderate damage and give a secondary support effect. For example: "Spider-Man swings into battle, kicking the enemy for ~1500 damage and firing his webs to slow their attack, destroying up to 3 enemy strike tiles." Increase damage with levels and covers and number of strike tiles destroyed with covers.

      Spider-Man needs an offensive ability. He's not a cannon, but he is a powerful fighter.

      Original post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14167#p206542
    • ClydeFrog76ClydeFrog76 Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
      How sick was the Morlun saga? That JMS guy wrote a damn good Spidey arc.

      Also, HELLS YES to giving Web Bandages the much deserved flick and swapping it with something befitting the best Marvel hero ever.
    • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
      This is an idea I can get behind.

      I'm not sure if I've quite understood the power correctly but I love the idea of an ability that stacks on itself, becoming stronger but more expensive with each use.
      It's the sort of ability that I had in mind for dear old Spidey for a while - it's something that showcases his strength AND agility.
    • cactusrobcactusrob Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
      Given how popular Spidey is I'm surprised we only have two versions (and one of those is bagman!).
      I thought we'd already have see. A star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.png black suit version, or Iron Spidey, or Captain Universe model. Although I'd really like a Scarlet Spider, but that ain't going to happen.
    • edited November 2014
      I'm all for a Spider-Man buff, so here are some of my suggestions. His health can stay at 6800 since he's very good at mitigating match damage. The 8500+ HP guys take a while to build up AP for their best skills compared to the Web-Slinger. I'd tweak your attack suggestion to interact with web tiles the way Psylocke benefits from red strike tiles. Initial cost should be 7 or 8 Yellow AP, lowered by 1 for each web tile on the board (minimum cost 5 AP)

      Sticky Situation - 8 AP (wow it's hard to write in yellow and have it be legible)
      Sticky Situation - 8 AP
      Spider-Man swings into action landing a devastating blow, dealing 85 damage. Costs 1 AP less per web tile on the board (minimum cost 5 AP)
      Level 2: Deals 120 damage
      Level 3: If target is stunned, deals an additional 50 damage
      Level 4: Deals 180 base damage
      Level 5: If target is stunned, deals an additional 80 damage
      Max Level: Deals 1200 base damage, if target is stunned deals an additional 600 damage

      So it would be tricky to maintain yellow web tiles while trying to keep spamming the ability, so it shouldn't lead to an exploit. Maybe Blade's Nightstalker would turn this into a neat combo if the enemy's strongest color is yellow
    • I can get behind a spidey buff initiative. I endorsed this a few months back and cited this trading card I used to have showing spidey's stats:

      detail.jpg

      Agree that it's yellow that needs to change. I prefer Red Panda's suggested Yellow skill to the that of the OP. Though both are exciting ideas, and I like the stacking idea where the move done differs on AP spent, I doubt potentially high damage moves at such low (3) AP costs are unlikely to get implemented for risk of exploitation and being over-powered -- reminiscent of C Mags red. A more moderate 5AP cost skill will likely be favored. Imagine a 3AP damage move like that with strike tiles (Daken, Blade/Patch/Thor, Spidey). In any event, I imagine the devs would want to give the skill rewrite the old college try and I'd be all for it, as long as Spidey gets the respect he deserves. I should add though, that the same, correct, rationale applied here can also be made for the Incredible Hulk. It he's really in a class above even Lazy Thor in strength, then he is getting the short end of the stick in this game indeed, 'tis a pity. I'd love to see a Hulk red and maybe green buff as well eventually. You gotta love the tried and true Marvel staple super heroes.
    • PuceMoosePuceMoose Posts: 1,445 Chairperson of the Boards
      Heh, I just posted this in the official Spiderman character thread - seems appropriate to replicate it here!

      *EDIT* Just because it's appropriate, I remember that I was idly thinking about some power changes to him earlier - to rework his yellow and tweak his blue a bit. Random ideas:
      All Tied Up - Blue 5 bluetile.png
      Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
      Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist. Drains 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist. Steals 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists. Drains 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color, then steals 1 AP in the targeted enemy's strongest color.
      Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist. Steals 2 AP in the enemy's strongest color.


      Yellow:
      yellowflag.png 9
      Web Slam
      Spiderman uses his powerful web-spinners to sling the targeted enemy into the rest of the enemy team.
      Level 1: Deals 10% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 150 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 2: Deals 13% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 175 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 3: Deals 16% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 200 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 4: Deals 19% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 225 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Level 5: Deals 25% of the targeted enemy's current health in damage to the rest of the enemy team, then deals 250 damage to the targeted enemy.
      Max Level: 1850 base damage
    • Spidey is not healer, I would change yellowflag.png to offensive move (he should have one...) with average damage, but keep increasing with amount of web.png on board.
      blueflag.png is fine, let it be.
      purpleflag.png - it's not bad, but it is spider-sense, not spider-web-protect... Maybe add to this skill something like: whene there is enemyprotect.png tile on board, spider has 15% to avoid any damage and for every next enemyprotect.png on board add 5% to avoid (for maximum 30%).
    • OnesOwnGriefOnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
      raziel777 wrote:
      Spidey is not healer, I would change yellowflag.png to offensive move (he should have one...) with average damage, but keep increasing with amount of web.png on board.
      blueflag.png is fine, let it be.
      purpleflag.png - it's not bad, but it is spider-sense, not spider-web-protect... Maybe add to this skill something like: whene there is enemyprotect.png tile on board, spider has 15% to avoid any damage and for every next enemyprotect.png on board add 5% to avoid (for maximum 30%).
      They tried that type of purple already. That's why we have the skill he currently has. I don't think they ever wanted Spidey to have any offensive capabilities but all these support only characters need something when the main damager on the team is downed.
    • So, forget about end times, MMR, sharding, 3rd powers, nerfs, buffing worse characters such as IW, new PVE's, new game modes, etc., etc. Buffing spider-man is the priority? Really?

      So by your logic....I'm guess Bag-Man is second in line, and then the next priority is 4* black suit spidey?
    • IamTheDangerIamTheDanger Posts: 1,093 Chairperson of the Boards
      Well Mr founder, president, leader, sir, sign me up to join. SpiderMan's purple and blue are fine. He always feels the need to protect others, so the protect tiles work. But for blue, I'd make it more of a "Web in place" than a stun. Instead of turning the opponents a blue shade, I would make it look as though they were covered in webbing. But it's fine as is I guess, it has the same affect either way and to change it might require a bit of work. But his yellow most definitely needs to be a damage dealing ability. His spider strength is part of who he is. Part of his core character. Why would the devs ever ignore that?

      Even before true healing, his yellow was misplaced. I can think of a few times that, yes, Spiderman has used his webs to make bandages, but it would take me a bit of time to search through some comics to find an example. But examples of his strength can be found in just about every issue. Pick up a random copy a Spidey comic and you'll see him using his strength. You can't say that about him making bandages because it doesn't happen that often.

      And if they do give Spidey a damage ability, I really hope they leave it as yellow. As was pointed out, we can use another yellow damage. If they do change it though, it should be red and NOT green. 1) too many green damage abilities as it is, and 2) red is more of a Spidey color. Green just does not work for Spiderman. His greatest enemy Goblin, yes, Spidey, no.


      As for a 4 star.png Spidey, I'd have to vote for the suit Tony Stark made for Peter just before Civil War.

      b3oykht.png?2
    • LidolasLidolas Posts: 500
      Reporting for duty, sir!

      I love the idea of changing yellowflag.png to do damage. I like the song reference, and the increased damage. Part of Spidey's fighting ability is moving from bad guy to bad guy. Maybe depending on webs out, He hits the second and the third guys for partial damage as well. The best scene of ASM2, IMO, was the end, swinging the manhole cover at Rhino. I'd love to see that in the game.
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