*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

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  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    So, realizing there are dissenting opinions, I'm getting the impression that am I relatively safe letting go of 3* Spidey? I could really use another slot, and I've actually almost always chosen 2* characters over my half-finished 3* Spidey, sooo...

    TIA!

    DBC

    I would try to keep every character possible but Spider-Man is probably my least played maxed 3*s (least played 3/4* land would be Invisible Woman). Unless you're forced to use him there's almost no reason to bring him over someone else. His stun is decent but pretty expensive (even at 5). Web tiles don't stick so you're usually only getting a 1 turn stun out of it. His yellow is terrible and his purple tile is worse than Luke Cage's. He's halfway useful on Survival nodes but that's about it.
  • dkffiv wrote:
    So, realizing there are dissenting opinions, I'm getting the impression that am I relatively safe letting go of 3* Spidey? I could really use another slot, and I've actually almost always chosen 2* characters over my half-finished 3* Spidey, sooo...

    TIA!

    DBC

    I would try to keep every character possible but Spider-Man is probably my least played maxed 3*s (least played 3/4* land would be Invisible Woman). Unless you're forced to use him there's almost no reason to bring him over someone else. His stun is decent but pretty expensive (even at 5). Web tiles don't stick so you're usually only getting a 1 turn stun out of it. His yellow is terrible and his purple tile is worse than Luke Cage's. He's halfway useful on Survival nodes but that's about it.
    Hey, his protect tiles offer protection while clogging up the purple when Patchbombing PvE
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    gamar wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    So, realizing there are dissenting opinions, I'm getting the impression that am I relatively safe letting go of 3* Spidey? I could really use another slot, and I've actually almost always chosen 2* characters over my half-finished 3* Spidey, sooo...

    TIA!

    DBC

    I would try to keep every character possible but Spider-Man is probably my least played maxed 3*s (least played 3/4* land would be Invisible Woman). Unless you're forced to use him there's almost no reason to bring him over someone else. His stun is decent but pretty expensive (even at 5). Web tiles don't stick so you're usually only getting a 1 turn stun out of it. His yellow is terrible and his purple tile is worse than Luke Cage's. He's halfway useful on Survival nodes but that's about it.
    Hey, his protect tiles offer protection while clogging up the purple when Patchbombing PvE

    Doesn't Doom do a better job because you aren't forced to match a useless color?
  • dkffiv wrote:
    gamar wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    So, realizing there are dissenting opinions, I'm getting the impression that am I relatively safe letting go of 3* Spidey? I could really use another slot, and I've actually almost always chosen 2* characters over my half-finished 3* Spidey, sooo...

    TIA!

    DBC

    I would try to keep every character possible but Spider-Man is probably my least played maxed 3*s (least played 3/4* land would be Invisible Woman). Unless you're forced to use him there's almost no reason to bring him over someone else. His stun is decent but pretty expensive (even at 5). Web tiles don't stick so you're usually only getting a 1 turn stun out of it. His yellow is terrible and his purple tile is worse than Luke Cage's. He's halfway useful on Survival nodes but that's about it.
    Hey, his protect tiles offer protection while clogging up the purple when Patchbombing PvE

    Doesn't Doom do a better job because you aren't forced to match a useless color?
    Eh, since everything but green and red (and maybe teamup) doesn't matter much when you're patchbombing, if there's no green/red match you might as well grab a purple and get a protect tile

    (oh yeah... and it goes without saying I only bring spidey if Daken is unavailable, of course, and a couple of protect tiles definitely help against him)
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    gamar wrote:
    Eh, since everything but green and red (and maybe teamup) doesn't matter much when you're patchbombing, if there's no green/red match you might as well grab a purple and get a protect tile

    (oh yeah... and it goes without saying I only bring spidey if Daken is unavailable, of course, and a couple of protect tiles definitely help against him)

    Forgot that Doom would end up tanking black so it would make it a little harder to get Hulk in front. Luke Cage might be a better third, Hulk would tank Green Red Blue Black and Team Ups I believe.
  • Omega RedOmega Red Posts: 366 Mover and Shaker
    Spider-man is underrated in my opinion. He is key in beating those deadly nodes without sending your scalling through the roof.

    Also, every new character with an active purple represents an instant buff for Spider-man.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    Omega Red wrote:
    Spider-man is underrated in my opinion. He is key in beating those deadly nodes without sending your scalling through the roof.

    Also, every new character with an active purple represents an instant buff for Spider-man.

    I fail to see how he's viable on deadly nodes. His protect tile doesn't scale well enough to counter a deadly blade or daken and his stun isn't reliable enough to lock down an opponent. A single ability usually downs someone so spidey, without an offensive ability, is just taking up a valuable roster spot. On survival nodes where you can delay the match against goons and store up AP (and stun the attack tile goons before downing them) he's not bad but that's about it.

    Prenerf spidey was a PvE hero with a 2 AP 5 turn stun but his current incarnation sucks
  • Omega RedOmega Red Posts: 366 Mover and Shaker
    dkffiv wrote:
    Omega Red wrote:
    Spider-man is underrated in my opinion. He is key in beating those deadly nodes without sending your scalling through the roof.

    Also, every new character with an active purple represents an instant buff for Spider-man.

    I fail to see how he's viable on deadly nodes. His protect tile doesn't scale well enough to counter a deadly blade or daken and his stun isn't reliable enough to lock down an opponent. A single ability usually downs someone so spidey, without an offensive ability, is just taking up a valuable roster spot. On survival nodes where you can delay the match against goons and store up AP (and stun the attack tile goons before downing them) he's not bad but that's about it.

    Prenerf spidey was a PvE hero with a 2 AP 5 turn stun but his current incarnation sucks

    On PVE you don't fight Blade; you fight Bullseye, Yelena, Moonstone and Venom so you have to account for purple. Also, on deadly nodes match damage alone can take a significant amount of health, Spiderman's purple solves that problem. True, a single nuke can down him but on deadly nodes that is true for most of characters anyway. Spiderman's blue will give you early in the game that key extra-turn you need to launch your attack before Ares does, and late in the game will perma-stun whoever is left standing. His yellow is like insurance, you rarely use it but when you need it you are glad it's there.

    Add to that the arrival of good purple characters: Loki, Xavier, Iron fist, Kamala. Now you have things to do with that purple you've been denying and on top of that you also have protect tiles.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 588 Critical Contributor
    3/5/5 Spidey's still a valuable PVE character in my books, especially when grouped with Punisher & Falcon. Those three were a few of the first characters I maxed covers for, and it's still a go-to team in tougher PVE nodes for me. With good tile luck at the start, it's possible to cruise to an easy victory with a flood of increasingly buffed protect tiles littering the board. I like that Spidey's purple doesn't take other people's protect tiles into account when creating his own (I may be mistaken, but I believe Black Panther's blue does?), so there's some great overlap there with his purple passive triggering at the same time that you're collecting purple for Falcon's active.

    That said, I do agree that something needs to be done about his yellow to incorporate an attack of some sort. A Spidey left alone as last man standing is just embarrassingly pathetic.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,036 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5 Spidey's still a valuable PVE character in my books, especially when grouped with Punisher & Falcon. Those three were a few of the first characters I maxed covers for, and it's still a go-to team in tougher PVE nodes for me. With good tile luck at the start, it's possible to cruise to an easy victory with a flood of increasingly buffed protect tiles littering the board. I like that Spidey's purple doesn't take other people's protect tiles into account when creating his own (I may be mistaken, but I believe Black Panther's blue does?), so there's some great overlap there with his purple passive triggering at the same time that you're collecting purple for Falcon's active.

    That said, I do agree that something needs to be done about his yellow to incorporate an attack of some sort. A Spidey left alone as last man standing is just embarrassingly pathetic.

    Spidey's tiles are purple specific, its possible to have some conflict after casting a Falcon purple. Punisher/Spidey/Falcon is one of my survival node teams for Enemy of the State when Wolverine is locked out, otherwise I usually try to bring true heals along for those.

    I brainstormed the following changes earlier that would probably help him out:

    1) Swap yellow and purple covers. Yellow is now his protect tile generation cover but it still generates tiles on purple on purple matches. Exact same function as it currently is, its just his yellow cover now.

    2) His heal now requires purple AP. You generate protect tiles as you're building toward his heal now. Purple is usually one of the hardest colors to cover so now he has an active on it. Maybe drop the cost to 10, not sure if just swapping to purple is enough of a buff.

    3) Change his blue to either 4 AP or 5 AP and always stuns for 2 turns at 5 covers. 4hor's 3 turn stun isn't enough half the time to completely lock someone down and she's potentially generating blue charged tiles. Not nearly as powerful as his original blue but I think a slight tweak would help him a lot.

    Highly doubt it would move him up to or past mid-tier but would make him a lot more useful.
  • Marc_SpectorMarc_Spector Posts: 588 Critical Contributor
    dkffiv wrote:
    Spidey's tiles are purple specific, its possible to have some conflict after casting a Falcon purple.

    Ah! - so each Falcon protect tile on a purple tile would limit the # that Spidey can create by 1? Thanks -- I didn't know that.

    Fantastic ideas as well, BTW!
  • Spidey's pink ability is replaced with a dodge ability similar to what Hawkeye had. Yellow is replaced by a web pellets. This or other mods to make the wall crawler true to character. Right now his move set isn't true to character. Spidey has always been a hard target who is versatile and resourceful. Thanks for considering, mpq rules
  • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hawkeye's old Dodge ability was horrible! I hated when he moved to the back so Thor could take an Adamantium Slash to the face.. no thanks!

    I wish his Blue would target all opponents at level 5 and change his yellow to an offensive skill. Purple is his best skill, but I wish it were like Bullseye where it triggers when anyone matches purple not just you. I never could understand why Spidey Sense wouldn't trigger when the opponent matches 3 as in a way for Spidey to protect himself from the attack.
  • Hawkeye's purple however was great with the Hulk icon_razz.gif

    Personally I am happy with Spidey's Blue/Purple, however his yellow was impacted by the changes to healing and I would like to see it tweaked. Maybe it can do something similar to X-force with a count down timer giving a chance for it to get matched or destroyed, but would do team true healing?
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,170 Chairperson of the Boards
    I too agree that Spidey's Blue & Purple are fine as is. His yellow is his most useless power. Healing abilities are bad enough, but the fact that if you use it when there are more than 3 web-tiles, it actually weakens his other abilities!

    Two points.

    #1: If it stays a healing power, keep everything as is EXCEPT every use should also leave behind a web-tile, & if over 3 exist just give the increased heal, don't destroy any of the tiles!

    #2: Forget Healing and make it a damaging ability. Perhaps doing damage to a single target with no web-tiles, 2 targets with 1 web-tile, and all 3 targets with 2 or more web-tiles.
  • I'll be honest that Spiderman healing the team never made sense in the first place. When it was a useful skill I wasn't one to complain. I'd actually rather see it be more like his alter ego's purple and let him move a few tiles.

    Or heck, fitting with the theme, maybe allow him to swap a webbed tile with another normal tile, and work on up to 3 tiles. That way there is still a tie in to his blue, it limits it's usefulness to a manageable level (since you would need the webbed tile to be in a place that it would benifet you to make the swap) and if the board state is right it could be a really powerful move
  • That's all excellent input. My main concern is that his move set isn't true to the character. Spidey is traditionally a hard target who is also very resourceful and hyper intelligent. His move set should reflect his character
  • HeartburnHeartburn Posts: 527
    i think his purple should be a counter attack a dodge chance plus retaliation damage
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,170 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heartburn wrote:
    i think his purple should be a counter attack a dodge chance plus retaliation damage

    Interesting idea, but potentially broken in practice. Perhaps if it functioned like Deadpool's Black when Spiderman is targeted, but that honestly sounds less useful than his current purple.
  • AronditeArondite Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spiderman (3*)
    Health 8,750
    Color Priority

    Purple
    Blue
    Red

    purpleflag.png Spider Sense
    Passive ; Spiderman's heightened senses allow him to react to and defend against his enemies' attacks. Whenever your allies make a Purple Match, change one Basic Purple Tile to a protect tile.
    Rank 3 - Strength 128
    Rank 4 - 1 Protect Tile for each 3 Web Tiles on the Board
    Rank 5 - Strength 155 ; also 1 Web Tile

    blueflag.png Web Shot
    5 AP ; Spiderman shoots a blast of adhesive webbing, hindering his enemies' movements. Stun the enemy for 1 Turn. 1 Additional Turn for each Web Tile. Creates 1 Web Tile afterward.
    Rank 3 - "
    Rank 4 - 2 Turns ; 1 Additional Turn for each Web Tile ; Creates 1
    Rank 5 - 2 Turns target ; 1 Additional Turn for each Web Tile ; Team Stun if over 5 Web Tiles

    redflag.png Maximum Spider
    13 AP ; Spiderman rockets himself across the battlefield, propeling himself from his strategically placed webbing. Deals damage ; additional effects with Web Tiles
    Rank 3 - deals 1,810 Damage to the enemy team ; destroys 2 Random Web Tiles to deal additional match damage to the target.
    Rank 4 - deals 2,112 Damage to the enemy team ; destroys 2 Selected Web Tiles to deal 2x Match Damage to the target.
    Rank 5 - deals 2,712 Damage to the enemy team ; Select 2 Web Tiles - every tile in the path between the two (including the Selected Tiles) is destroyed, dealing match damage but not generating AP (except for the Web Tiles).
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