*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

and i think the Devs are quite knowledgeable of their game mechanics.

We'll have to disagree on that. Looking at Loki, Ragnarok, Classic Storm, Spider-Man and Classic Magneto in their pre-nerfed glory the only thing I see is an utter lack of understanding in anything resembling game balance. It wasn't just a stupid idea, it was also blatantly obvious.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Rags--Bad, stealth nerf and overnerfed, unless.......you factor that he is only 2 abiltiies, and then HOPEFULLY SOON they will give all the 2 covers a third, this nerf wont' be as bad because you can scale up the rest with levels, to where he's decent again

They already said that there won't be any third cover. Well, actually they said that adding a third cover is not their current priority and that they might revisit the idea sometime in the future, but that's basically the same, just worded differently to fit official communication guidelines.

Phaserhawk wrote:

Although with these changes it's too bad they didnt' kick his health up just abit. Dont worry though players, you will survive, the game will go on, Spidey is still useful you just have to actually time your stuns instead of just firing them off non-stop

Phaser, don't make an idjit of yourself in public, you show way too little experience in knowing how Spidey works. We need a serious chat to wise you up.

Phaserhawk

Again, look at Spiderman, and then add Falcon. These two would have/still are scary together. Match Purple, get free protect tiles from Spidey, match yellow build up your yellow AP, and add 237 protection to the tiles already out, every yellow match. At this point you are not taking tile match damage. Eventually you get some blue, and you start locking down targets, you aren't taking dmg from matches, lose a protect tile, match purple again, Eventually you can cast Falcon's purple for no dmg, keep matching yellow, eventually you can heal for 2k health which you more than likely have not taken. This is what you can expect. Be ready for Falcon-Man. Sure Spidey took a beating with his super powers, and he is officially a support character now, but thats not bad and neither is he. They can always tweak him in the future.

Remember ladies and gentlement, we have no idea what they plan on releasing in the future, and we have no idea what they play tested with. They are obviously months ahead of character interactions since they are developing new charactes all the time. Perhaps and more likely than not, they have a better idea of what is going on then we think they do. Everyone crying Rags 2.0 I would only agree if we knew Rags was never going to get a 3rd skill (plz give him a third skill soon) When he gets that skill and you can get him to lvl 141 his nerfs wont' seem all that bad because they would be able to be scaled up in dmg. Give the game a few months after character tweaks to settle before predicting the gloom and doom.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Again, look at Spiderman, and then add Falcon. These two would have/still are scary together. Be ready for Falcon-Man. Sure Spidey took a beating with his super powers, and he is officially a support character now, but thats not bad and neither is he. They can always tweak him in the future.

Ok but spiderman shouldnt get a nerf because of falcon. I know that isnt what your saying but I dont think its really even worth discussing that he's still scary because of another character combo potential. Ive been playing him for a month now as a support character. Rarely using webs. Only using his pink to make protect tiles really. he has been fine as that. But I strongly disagree that he's not "bad now".

The reality is that these changes are far too extreme.

Even if thats the case by the time I get a falcon to 141 he'll get slapped too because he's "too good" with spidey.

They should strive to make most characters better. Not constantly making few worse. In a game where people spend money for covers or even iso its a really bad trend.

Unknown

I agree there was a need for some nerf. But should have been just the blue skill stun.

I have no idea why is there a need to touch purple skill. Also blue skill is nerf down too much. If you reduce the effectiveness of the duration of the stun at least don't increase the cost by that much to 5. If u do at least add some damage to the skill. Now he is quite useless for a 3 star that is not easily obtained. I will definitely not dare to spend so much money again to get a char to max and see it being nerf down so hard instead of a soft landing.

Kolence

gamar wrote:

He just takes too long to do anything effective. You know what would make him playable but not overpowered? If his purple created one web tile if there are no web tiles on the board, either instead of or in addition to the protect tile depending on how powerful you wanted it to be

Maybe if matching purple created blue web tile?
Not that it matters anymore...

Unknown

I'm not too broken up by these changes. I'll probably fear Spider-man a lot less than I did before, but I could still see scenarios where he'll be useful. They'll need to bring PvE down to a more manageable level thanks to these changes though. Facing level 200-400 enemies without Stun Lock won't be fun.

Honestly, I'll probably just keep using original Widow like I have been. She's always been more expedient than Spidey and with a decent healing ability to boot.

mags1587

Phaserhawk wrote:

All Tied Up - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.

Level 1:+1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist
Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist
Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists
Level 4: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist
Level 5: Also stuns other enemies for 1 turn.

This I think wouldn't be too hard to do, it would officially make him the best stunner in the game, because I don't really see a big jump from lvl 4 to 5. Because a two turn stun at 5, basically means I need two turns to gather enough AP to stun them again, so that third turn is really only needed if the board doesn't have alot of blue. But, allow me to stun everyone and give me a free turn period, and now I think we have a winner. Alas I think what they have is permanent, and considering my spidey is 4/0/5 yet I place high in every event and have all covers but that dumb blue spidey, (really odd) I can tell you that game is very playable without Spidey. Although with these changes it's too bad they didn't kick his health up just abit. Dont worry though players, you will survive, the game will go on, Spidey is still useful you just have to actually time your stuns instead of just firing them off non-stop.

I think I like this idea. I keep looking at blue and thinking that it'll leave me just short of what I need stun to do -- which is stopping a nuke from going off, keeping the opposing team from making a move while I set up a cascade, or keeping the opposing team locked down for one or two turns after Patch uses Beserker Rage.

Unknown

Adding diminishing returns to the framework of the game is the real answer for characters like spidey or magneto. This change is really short sighted and doesnt give me any confidence in D3. They continue to change values on skills instead of redesigning the real issues.

This game wont last long for free players or high paying players if they continue these trends.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

. Dont worry though players, you will survive, the game will go on, Spidey is still useful you just have to actually time your stuns instead of just firing them off non-stop

He is only useful if you need to temporarily stun Hulk/LazyDakan in order to unload on them. But, then you open yourself to more retaliations/attacks because he will be a complete liability on AI defense.

Why would you waste one of your three teams slots on him when you can bring Hood, Falcon or even Loki instead?

So there ... that is his use. He has made Loki a more viable support character in the three-star realm.

Bainee

I can't imagine why these balance changes are taking this long. Numbers and descriptions are being adjusted, not entirely new game mechanics being added.

Go through the over/under powered characters and change their damage and AP costs according. It doesn't need to be crazy +/- 10-20% to damage or +/- 1-2 AP on costs and observe the results with all the metrics you claim to have. Repeat the process each patch until they are inline. Will this be a perfect solution, probably not. But it could be a stop gap until you redesign the characters, which understandably can take a long time.

Small changes like this should be able to be done rapidly with little to no code changes, assuming you designed it right in the first place.

Unknown

I figured a higher cost to stun but 5 and a max of 2 or 3 turns? He's absolutely useless other than throwing in for a quick heal in a cheap pve setting....way to kill Spiderman if that was what you were looking for.....I blame people for complaining about him being op.....do the players who have spent isos on him get some back now because he is a worthless 141 for me

Unknown

Long time no see Bainee. You are one of my earliest memories of a top player. Do you still play a lot?

Clintman

Apparently no one asked Spiderman how he felt about the nerf and he crashed the servers. Of course since you nerfed his stunlock, he can only get them to go down intermittently... well played D3, Well played.

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

Apparently no one asked Spiderman how he felt about the nerf and he crashed the servers. Of course since you nerfed his stunlock, he can only get them to go down intermittently... well played D3, Well played.

I dunno this seems more he enlisted the help of Widow, as the servers have been down for much longer then Spidey would be capable of.

Clintman

MTGOFerret wrote:

Clintman wrote:

Apparently no one asked Spiderman how he felt about the nerf and he crashed the servers. Of course since you nerfed his stunlock, he can only get them to go down intermittently... well played D3, Well played.

I dunno this seems more he enlisted the help of Widow, as the servers have been down for much longer then Spidey would be capable of.

True, he is probably the one that webbed the purple Daken covers to the top of the toilet seat for the Devs to find later.

Unknown

Thanks for crippling spidey!

This is obvious sarcasm from a player who is ready to stop playing this terribly inconsistent game anyway.

Der_Lex

I'm in the 'Spidey needed funbalancing but this is overkill' camp. His heal and stun are now prohibitively expensive, and i'm not entirely sure why his purple had to be weakened on top of those changes.

Like rags, he has gone from gamebreaking to barely useable. A pity, but hey, he and I had a good run. Now to fnd a suitable replacement for him in my lineup. a maxed out lazy daken seems nice, but it'll be a while until i've maxed out his covers.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Again, look at Spiderman, and then add Falcon. These two would have/still are scary together.

They might scare a tiny kitty really. Not even a young tomcat. How those 2 will kill your team?

Yes, they would look great together if you could send a team with 5 members or 4 -- if the pair occupied one slot. But they take 2 team slots. Rendering that utter laughable ****. Read my lips: you can't win a game with just protect tiles.

The current spiderman was not at all scary going against patch or punisher -- probably against other strike makers either. Even that stun and protect was only good enough toothless teams thinking to kill you with tile damage or 200-ish damage abilities instead of the IMO usual pack ranging 600-3k and above.

Now you can forget stun completely and get some even lesser protects way too late.

There was a good calculation that if you're after that strategy you'll be still better off with Shieldbro's hardly ever used Sentinel that provides more for less fuss. And comes packed with 2 really cool and usable abilities that win you the game and 7k2 health too.

Most people didn't level old spidey too high, 70 or 90ish was more than enough -- now wise ones will hardly add the levels, and even those with 141 will replace him with *anything* else available.

Unknown

newdarkcloud wrote:

I'm not too broken up by these changes. I'll probably fear Spider-man a lot less than I did before, but I could still see scenarios where he'll be useful. They'll need to bring PvE down to a more manageable level thanks to these changes though. Facing level 200-400 enemies without Stun Lock won't be fun.

Honestly, I'll probably just keep using original Widow like I have been. She's always been more expedient than Spidey and with a decent healing ability to boot.

In recent heroic we didn't have spiderman. The one stun capability I recall was Cap** probably quite underused. And we had a deal of enemies over 200.

And nothing stopped to just ban spiderman (and any other potential troublemaker) for any PVE event or apply a massive debuff. We absolutely didn;t need this treatment for THAT goal. And I seriously doubt you will see any improvement from it either.