*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

repronaz wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Seriously? That sounds mad to me!!
I say this as someone who has still only got 2/2/0 build spidey (never used), never used OBW and never healed in story mode or in a match (other than wolvie yellow on 2* & 3*). Having never worried about finding a way to heal enough to be able to play 24/7, I have experienced a life aswell as done quite well in this game (5 3*'s @ 141 and constantly top 10 PVP and as best as I can finish PVE living in UK and not pulling a Ladder style no sleeper).
I dont understand how not being able to storymode heal can make you want to give the game up after S1 but I would suggest taking a break, coming back and finding a team that you like and can achive with, play what it will allow and then dabble now and then with your other covers for extra grind when you feel the need. (Maybe off topic but related to the above post)
Having never used spidey and only faced him, it opens up the game a bit to me as I will no longer be scared of retals from spidey teams under 20 points but no real game changer. He was weak, is weak and will forever be weak (even though he is supposed to have superhuman strength??)
P.S. Pasa this is not an attack but merely a "are you maybe taking this game too seriously" question

I mostly made the leave decision weeks ago for other reasons with some hesitation -- and the main reason is imply the game lost its fun long ago and what gained in extra things like alliances lost elsewhere on endless punishing actually good play. And to get results it really turned more to work than game.

This change is just a final straw that kills the hesitation part.

Healing is just fundamental part of my play style -- before switching to ***s I always used OBW and barely ever used health packs. And don't use them currently either but hoarding for occasion. What I know is more like a bad an counterproductive habit, yet part of how I want to play the game.

And the story-healing is fine: it's a minigame in its own right aiming to keep Venom alive till enough AP is collected -- other PQ games have several types of games MPQ lacks so this makes up, while serving a good purpose too. As long as it is fairly effective. The change cuts effectiveness to 1/5 or 1/10.

And is a bully low kick too just like eliminating yellow from those battles. The game design forces lots of things for optimal play like proper play times, that is bad enough.

I take the game way too seriously? Yes and no -- I already switched to "don't care" mode a week ago. Strangely the best results registered this week. Yet the most fun I have now is from counting the remaining hours.

Steam registered 1067 hours that is insane amount even if likely a fair fraction of it is not play just the game running. I started on first day of steam, would have probably exhaust the fun even if devs didn't try so hard to make it worse and feel more sour every day.

Probably I will look back a month ahead to see where it went, no realistic hopes as the curve show a single direction that holds nothing for old players.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Will be sad to lose someone who has played for so long to this though. If you are on easy mode now, maybe a break then back to easy mode will take away the tedium of it all and allow you to find another mechanic that gives you satisfaction? There isnt a lot out there to replace a game like this in reality let alone that would have such a fun and friendly forum to boot. I guess in real life there are far better things (my hobbies have suffered greatly to this game) but you must keep playing for a reason otherwise you wouldnt have hung on.
Basically my question to you is if you do leave, who will your grandchild inherit his/her epic roster from????? (its not just you this decision effects)

Unknown

Failed on that quote!!!

Phaserhawk

bonebreak wrote:

wow his rework is horrible. They nerfed ALL 3 SKILLS?? Are you serious? I think his yellow was a bit much and yes his blue was very good at 2 ap.

But to more than double the cost of blue, take away more than 50% in purple tiles strength and then change yellow's effectiveness by 80%. This is not really a nerf at all. Its a complete character gutting. When I heard a nerf was coming for spiderman I figured this company would be smart enough to balance around his abilities. not just massively change the values to all of his abilities.

Wow I just dont get it. Rather than buff other characters they continue to nerf characters. Its not worth putting any money into this game with massive changes like this.

never again

I think the protect tile nerf is due to Falcon, considering Spidey and Falcon, despite having the same colors, actually pair quite well is a reason for the nerf. I mean in 2 or three matches you have the tiles already to pre-nerf numbers. The heal was more a redistribution, taking the massive healing from late game and bringing toward the early game, allowing you to heal if you reall want to early. But I could already see the coming, match purple, match purple get tiles, match yellow, boost prot tiles with falcon, heal, rinse and repeat. Spidey/Falcon and throw in Punisher or HT for some offense and this might be the most solid defensive team and rainbow as well.

His blue is exactly what it should have been all along. 2 AP stun is insane, we all knew it, I'm scared to see what happens to C.Mags.

Frailezim

It seems that the game direction moving forward is nerf old key heroes after enough people have rushed to level them up, ala Rag, Spidey ( and probably Mag). Then release new characters that are essentially new top 5 characters e.g BP, Lazy Cap and Lazy Draken. This will cause the player base to spend HP, ISO on these characters. I can tell you now with 100% confidence at some point the new cards will be nerfed.

It's painful to watch really.

If you want to change player behavior, don't make a level three character ****er than a level one character. Unfortunately no matter how you guys try to justify this, it still equates to all three skills being reduced dramatically. How about change spideys play style to attack/dodge rather than stunlock and heal? I've never considered the character to be a healer from a comic book sense tbh.

Take aspects away, yes, but maybe make the character more exciting in other ways?

over_clocked

Why not just make Spidey a 2*, Bag-Man a 1* and introduce a Gold Spidey (Black Suit or whatever). More powerful and punchy than the pre-nerf Spidey to boot as is the case with every Gold character. We're talking business here!

Unknown

I think the more insulting idea is that now that he is nerfed, we will see more rewards and PvP's with him featured.

Yay?


--- // --

I still am kind of stunned at the nerf though. This is Ragnorak v2.0. It's like they forgot that this is a 3 star character that takes an average player 3-5 months to properly earn. It's not like Thor or Wolverine where you have a maxed version within 40 days of playing the game. He should have SOME utility and ability in relation to other characters of his rarity ..

Unknown

I encourage everyone that has allocated iso into spiderman to request it back. Being that is on is so hard to come by that we should not have to have it Locked up in a useless character. I'm fine with the change just will never use him again. Black widow 2* will be more effective in my opinion, at least she can steal ap. It should be a courtesy that your iso gets reset and your covers get reset during any hero changes. If we don't stand up together this game will seriously get bad. Step one nerf spiderman and we get health pack sales to go up. Step 2 add armor piercing rounds as a boost (can attack though shields), and add bulletproof shields that can block those rounds? Seriously devs? Yes guys this is what they are talking about next. Please everyone send in a ticket and request your iso and your covers reset. Thank you!

kensterr

Unknown

I said it months ago and I will say it again.

Instead of nerfing characters and make them useless, create new characters that counter the " problem" some of them have, instead of giving us so many lazy versions how about you guys get a little creative and stop destroying the game.

Unknown

Spiderman: 15 Blue AP to do 6-8 turns of 1 character stun. Thor 14 Green AP to do 8k cleave damage.

No one was saying his cost needed to stay at 2 ap. But you cant just leave it the same (or close to it) and raise the cost by 250%.

The protect tiles nerf is absurd. People out there saying he's fine need to look at the numbers again.


At level 141 spidermans protect tiles are now protect 20 damage and still capped at 3 on the board. At level 69 Daken creates 2 stirke tiles for more damage each with no cap. Yes spidermans tiles can go up with webs on the board. But for people that havent played him it can be very hard to overwrite those punny 20 defense tiles once you finally get webs out. So his protect tiles can rival Caps blue protect tiles If spiderman match for 15 blue AP, the AI doesnt wipes any web tiles in that process, and then you match a pink after. Mean while Cap can stun, and create a defense tiles for a net of 2 blue ap . (12) and it is refunded to him 3 turns later with 10 ap coming back. Caps blue is better than spideys blue and pink put together now.

I'm not saying to nerf Cap too. These nerfs are generally a bad idea especially considering the crowd of people who put time and effort and even $ into leveling these characters. Small adjustments are fine. This overhaul is absurd. No money will ever go back into this game from me after seeing this. If they can make these drastic changes to a character. No character is safe. Cut these nerfs in half and apply them to any character on your roster and it would cripple them horribly.

The thing that bothers me the most about D3's notes on this is that all of the abilities are discussed as if you will always have web tiles out on the board. When it fact thats just not true at all. Further more they imply that this change to blue means people will use it more often? Why? The reason people hoarded it was you get more stuns per webs out and to prevent AI from simply destroying webs. This is still true.... On top of that it seems to imply that you cant pair him with another blue user. Because now even his pink is complete garbage unless you are spending blue on creating webs. 15 blue AP to get 3 tiles out on the board (which im my experience unless you had a team locked down get destroyed rather quickly. But lets just say for the sake of it that you can keep 3 web tiles out on the board. His numbers are still less than pretty much most other characters with similar abilities. Even with 3 web tiles his protect tiles are lower than Cap or collectively Falcon. Thats in a perfect situation when you manage to keep 3 web tiles untouched.


Bottom line is that the only change that was reasonable was his yellow change. Pink didnt need a change and if it did it was only the high defense with tons of webs on the board Nerfs base protect to 20 is laughable and it forces you to spend blue on webs only instead of using another character. If you want to change blue fine I get it raise the mana cost if thats how you want the game played in the future. But you cant just leave the skill 50% the same and raise the mana 250%

Unknown

Guys, prepare yourselves for back to back spiderman tourneys and a shower of spiderman covers once the nerf hits.
Same thing that's going on with rags, if you want to play the game you're going to be forced to use him just like they're doing with rags right now.

Twysta

Spidey's 2 AP blue stun was a bit imba, it needed a change.
Even if it was as simple as - +1AP cost & for every 2 web tiles, +1 turn stun duration.

That probably would've fixed it for me, but eh. *shrugs*

DD-The-Mighty

Moghwyn wrote:

... not even close to the well executed changes to Thor and Wolverine.

Thor? Yes.
Wolverine? Nope.

and i think the Devs are quite knowledgeable of their game mechanics. Spidey a clear and deliberate nerf into the Usable-but-lackluster territory. Simple as that.


As for the rest, I agree.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Yay?

--- // --

I still am kind of stunned at the nerf though. This is Ragnorak v2.0. It's like they forgot that this is a 3 star character that takes an average player 3-5 months to properly earn. It's not like Thor or Wolverine where you have a maxed version within 40 days of playing the game. He should have SOME utility and ability in relation to other characters of his rarity ..

I couldnt agree more. Hes supposed to be a 3 star and yes the effort to get him to high level seems like its just tossed to the way side. Personally he is 1 of 2 characters I have leveled above 100 and I have spent a majority of my time doing that for months.
Even post nerf Thor is still one the best lvl 85's. I expected SM changes but more along that side.

These are like an April Fools Joke.

Unknown

How usable is spiderman now, he deals no damage at all and he has the worst stun in the game now, he's useless.
Defense tiles? Falcon is better at that.

Unknown

dolfanpescao wrote:

How usable is spiderman now, he deals no damage at all and he has the worst stun in the game now, he's useless.
Defense tiles? Falcon is better at that.

Even Loki is better when you use his black against enemy strike tiles.

Unknown

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Wolverine? Nope.

His damage output was way insane, he put about every 3* to shame. You could take on those rare level 230 nodes and still come out smiling. Sure, the plunge was far and it hurt a lot, didn't have any viable 3* back then. But I'll admit it was well deserved and reasonable, he's still an above average 2*. Spider-Man you won't ever see used again except for prologue healing and essential nodes.

Phaserhawk

One question on his yellow.

1. Does the new yellow convert all the web tiles still, or only 3, or none? I haven't figure out what it is saying.

As for all the Doom to the Game predictors and nerf haters. Lets look at the history

Rags--Bad, stealth nerf and overnerfed, unless.......you factor that he is only 2 abiltiies, and then HOPEFULLY SOON they will give all the 2 covers a third, this nerf wont' be as bad because you can scale up the rest with levels, to where he's decent again. I think all of us agree when he's buffed in tourney's, he feels fairly balanced, not too powerful, but not a push over either.

Thorverine--Pretty good, I thought Thor was perfect, he just feels right, Wolverine was 2 out of 3, they pooched his healing by making both below 50% health and yellow tile match. They needed to do either one or the other, he heals if below 50% health automatically or he always heals on yellow tile matches.

as for Spidey. I do see what people are saying. I think his purple is fair, especially with the advent of Falcon, the purple seems good. Yellow on the surface seems decent, you get a higher heal upfront without needing webtiles. Blue...I'm okay with it except I think I would have kicked up just a notch

All Tied Up - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.

Level 1:+1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist
Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist
Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists
Level 4: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist
Level 5: Also stuns other enemies for 1 turn.

This I think wouldn't be too hard to due, it would ofically make him the best stunner in the game, because I don't really see a big jump from lvl 4 to 5. Because a two turn stun at 5, basically means I need two turns to gather enough AP to stun them again, so that third turn is really only needed if the board doesn't have alot of blue. But, allow me to stun everyone and give me a free turn period, and now I think we have a winner. Alas I think what they have is permanent, and considering my spidey is 4/0/5 yet I place high in every event and have all covers but that dumb blue spidey, (really odd) I can tell you that game is very playable without Spidey. Although with these changes it's too bad they didnt' kick his health up just abit. Dont worry though players, you will survive, the game will go on, Spidey is still useful you just have to actually time your stuns instead of just firing them off non-stop

Unknown

He just takes too long to do anything effective. You know what would make him playable but not overpowered? If his purple created one web tile if there are no web tiles on the board, either instead of or in addition to the protect tile depending on how powerful you wanted it to be