*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

For me less than 5% of incoming attacks had spiderman and I made it a sport to bash them down immediately with various teams until stopped coming or got the +X points report

Pretty hard to do that when they hit you for 40 and you hit them back for 12 points.

Spiderman always collects on his debts no matter how powerful your team is.

Hard? The game is the same. Some of them actually came from above or level -- but sport means no look at points, and I can make up the net loss of a handful. From timing it shows they take loooong and likely use some boosts too. And did I mention it is too rare to make practical point diff?

OTOH I attack away on any spiderman team without much hesitation, actually prefer it to most other characters. And with MagsMN? Please come my way. Absolute sitting duck for free ride. With all those potential retals the attack rate is still negligible. And I can gain way more points on them per minute than they ever hope to nail me for realistically.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

coffeeandbacon wrote:

I just wonder what this will do to pvp from a points perspective. Obw or spidey were critical for marathon runs to generate enough points to place high in your bracket.

On the one hand it seems like a spidey nerf would make a late stage run harder or more health pack dependant. I am not a fan of last minute rubberbanding to the top so that SEEMS ok.
But... if you start early and rely on timed heals, your gonna get blasted by attacks. (Get hit for a ton of points with only 3 available in retal) and that will depress overall points or an extra reliance on shields.

F2p and p2w is really turning into p2p.....

The marathon runs are needed in the first place because you're constantly fending off those 40 point hits from anyone with Spiderman. With Spiderman no longer allow people to attack guys they've no business of winning you'd have less sudden loss of points against teams that are not supposed to be able to beat you. The net result is likely to be slightly more top heavy since Spiderman, especially combined with Magneto MN, is pretty much an equalizer that ensures no team is ever too powerful to be defeated, even when they should be!

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

I'm sure post people running them formerly switched to Lazy Thor. Even patch5G/spidey looked way down, a team that made perfect sense and not fitting the "no business" thing.

Unknown

Spidey nerf was too harsh. While he might still be a playable character (marginally), why would you choose him over anyone else now? That's the problem I see. I think I would choose just about any other 3* over spidey and probably some 2*s.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

Same here. I see 50 OBW/Punisher teams to every Spidey team I see.

I think part of that is because the players that used to use Spidey have moved onto better, beefier characters and the new players never had a chance to cover him up.

Unknown

UncleSam wrote:

Spidey nerf was too harsh. While he might still be a playable character (marginally), why would you choose him over anyone else now? That's the problem I see. I think I would choose just about any other 3* over spidey and probably some 2*s.

And so they made BP's blue a good ability . Think Shieldbro's was never in doubt.

Dauthi

I think they went a little overboard. They have turned one of Marvel's top dogs into a joke in this game.

His purple forces you to use your blue asap for it to be useful at all, however to do so would be stupid because a 1 turn stun is virtually useless. If you are lucky you might get 5 more blue before your web brakes and get a.. 2 turn stun! Again though, it would be virtually useless. I guess you could stall an opponents ability that is about to go off for 2 turns? I would say there is a 10% chance either web will survive until you hit another 5 blue, so forget about the bonus heal or stun. Why did they make him completely at the mercy of web survival? It makes him the most circumstantial and unreliable support in the game now. At least you get to heal though! (lol)

The other choice is to hoard 15 blue and 12 yellow to take advantage of his heal, his stun (lol), and his purple. This means he will be absolutely useless until 15 blue though and 12 yellow (if you are going this route it had better to be to heal because his stun sucks even at 15 blue ap). When you hit 15 blue and 12 yellow you will get to stun the opponents all together for 1 turn if there are still 3 opponents or 2 turns if there are 2. Essentially you had better hope you have killed one opponent by 15 blue to make his stun worthwhile still. After you drop that you can get your bonus heal. If you are even luckier you can take advantage of his purple if there is a purple match that round, which you had better hope there is because those web tiles are going to break fast. There is a reason IM 40 gives so much AP if you protect 3 yellow tiles randomly dropped on the board, its hard to keep them alive!

I would go with the first strategy for general use and the second if I need to heal that round. The problem is his general use strategy is sub par in usefulness even compared to other 3*s now, and you probably won't use him except to sub in to heal 2 characters.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

Same here. I see 50 OBW/Punisher teams to every Spidey team I see.
I think part of that is because the players that used to use Spidey have moved onto better, beefier characters and the new players never had a chance to cover him up.

I experience and think that too. Spiderman blues were not easily available. And the folks having them had access to most *** covers released since in good quantity. And in PVP most of them are waaaay better the even the broken spiderman in tournament-resources terms. (Not counting the occasional picking-up to have a heal every X games).

Stunlocking 3 fat characters with a damage-**** team is just not feasible. Seriously, I recall more attacks with mStorm team (and actually even faster) from determined players. Sure that is a sport too to bash back regardless point figures.

Gerrod

Devs, there is a midpoint between overpowered (current form) and nerfed to obsolescence. This isn't it.
Spiderman was always the utility player of the team who brought healing and stuns.
5 turn stuns for 2 blue was overpowered, and I think many believed the cost would just go up or the duration would go down.
However, was he significantly unbalanced? He allowed wins, but with a much slower pace of gaming than teams that focused on high damage characters. So if I can win 5 matches in 15 minutes with spidey and have full health on my team, is that more OP than winning 10 matches in 15 minutes with a fast damage focused team, or is it another play style that is less efficient per time spent?

With both utilities significantly reduced to the levels described, does anyone with a max level spiderman still see a space for him on their team? Can anyone argue with a straight face he is even remotely equal in power to other 3 ability 3* heroes? (leave out the 2 ability 3*s for now).
This isn't the sky is falling, but a 2 * character (OBW) provides better utility now in terms of ability denial, healing, and damage.

Please reevaluate the severity of this change prior to implementation. I have a deep enough roster to replace him, but many won't.

And please reevaluate some of the encounter designs (especially in PVE) should you make this change as listed. Level 220 Devil Dino with a green feeding minion, etc.

Unknown

Gerrod wrote:

With both utilities significantly reduced to the levels described, does anyone with a max level spiderman still see a space for him on their team? Can anyone argue with a straight face he is even remotely equal in power to other 3 ability 3* heroes? (leave out the 2 ability 3*s for now).

He's still better than Daredevil! (But not X-Force)

DD-The-Mighty

Toxicadam wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

Same here. I see 50 OBW/Punisher teams to every Spidey team I see.

I think part of that is because the players that used to use Spidey have moved onto better, beefier characters and the new players never had a chance to cover him up.

I cant speak for the 3 star mmr bracket but I assumed you never see spidey on all but 100+ levels were due to the insane infrequency that his covers are available. Since ive started playing (just before the Ragnarok nerf) i dont see him offered up a lot in pvp, not as much as alot of the other 3* chars. I assumed D3 was attempting to bleed out the community until they settled on an (in)appropriate level of nerf.

SolidQ

Phaserhawk

I think another easy fix if they are going to keep as is, is to have not only a purple match create protect tiles, but also create a random web tile. this allows him more web tile generation, and essential you can 2 or 3 turn stun if you matched enough purple before casting.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think another easy fix if they are going to keep as is, is to have not only a purple match create protect tiles, but also create a random web tile. this allows him more web tile generation, and essential you can 2 or 3 turn stun if you matched enough purple before casting.

I think if you could flood out web tiles by matching Purple he would be too strong, but if the purple just created a web tile if there were zero on the board it would give him a much-needed kickstart on his abilities being effective without keeping them ALWAYS in "super-effective" mode

Nonce Equitaur 2

His new blue power isn't quite as bad as this one:

Irresponsibility - Blue Passive
Spiderman hasn't been responsible with his great power. As punishment, when his team makes a blue match, he dies.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Spiderman dies on any blue match. Level 3: Spiderman's team dies on a blue match. Level 4: All characters belonging to the player die on a blue match. Level 5: All characters in the player's Alliance die on a blue match.

Phaserhawk

Just change blue to this.

All Tied Up - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist
Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists
Level 4: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist
Level 5: Also stuns other enemies for 1 turn.

Seriously, do this, this makes it decent, this makes spidey still good without killing him.

Unknown

They need to redo the nerf on spidy. It totally make him obsolete....

Phaserhawk

Just make his blue do this

All Tied Up - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist
Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists
Level 4: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist
Level 5: Also stuns other enemies for 1 turn.

This will work, not as powerful as it was but not as terrible as it's gonna be.

Clintman

/salute to Spiderman, you got me through the good times and the bad. I don't regret the ISO I spent leveling your the HP I spent getting your covers. You got me through the walls of 230's back in the day before I learned to let me team almost die every fight to manage PVE MMR.

You caused me some heartache too, you allowed folks to beat my teams that never had any business attacking me, so I will enjoy either more defensive wins, or fewer attacks. Either one is good too.

Your nerf into oblivion is going to change the Meta game in ways that we have not yet come to terms with, and that adds excitement to the mix. The Hulk will see a resurgence probably. New team mixes will come into being and a whole new crop of characters will become subject to public outcry of being overpowered now that you no longer serve any purpose outside of prologue healing.

I am glad that I weaned myself off of your intoxicating healing webs, but admit I did find myself falling into a love triangle with Patch. Luckily C Mags is unnerfed for the time being.

Farewell Spidey, I will always cherish our time together.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

He's still better than Daredevil! (But not X-Force)

Actually, I think would take DD over Spidey now. At least if you end up with only DD left there's still a chance he could crotch kick himself to victory.

I would choose Spidey over XForce so there's that