*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Moghwyn wrote:

Looking at Loki, Ragnarok, Classic Storm, Spider-Man and Classic Magneto in their pre-nerfed glory the only thing I see is an utter lack of understanding in anything resembling game balance. It wasn't just a stupid idea, it was also blatantly obvious.

Based on the inclusion of C.Storm and Loki on that list its very clear you're a huge fan of excessive power creep. I am a big fan of hard countering characters, but If you think that sore thumbs like Spider-man and Ragnarok didn't need nerfing, then you may be too far gone to reason with.

You might want to check what C.Storm and Loki did before they were nerfed. I don't suppose calling that a stupid idea makes me much of an excessive power creep fan. Quite the contrary.

Unknown

So glad I wasted 1250 gold on a weak **** Spidey blue last week. Unbelievable. Constantly questioning why I continue to keep playing this game.

Clintman

Garwalker wrote:

So glad I wasted 1250 gold on a weak **** Spidey blue last week. Unbelievable. Constantly questioning why I continue to keep playing this game.

Spidey has been on the chopping block for months and Ice mentioned over a week ago that Spidey nerfs were imminent. I am not trying to poke my finger in your eye, I know it doesn't make it much easier to take. But this nerf has been a long time coming.

Just don't go out and buy Classic Mag covers, or you might go postal in the near future.

Unknown

these changes are far too extreme.

Unknown

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I haven't actually seen that many spidermans in pvp. for months now.

Same here. I see 50 OBW/Punisher teams to every Spidey team I see.

I think part of that is because the players that used to use Spidey have moved onto better, beefier characters and the new players never had a chance to cover him up.

I cant speak for the 3 star mmr bracket but I assumed you never see spidey on all but 100+ levels were due to the insane infrequency that his covers are available. Since ive started playing (just before the Ragnarok nerf) i dont see him offered up a lot in pvp, not as much as alot of the other 3* chars. I assumed D3 was attempting to bleed out the community until they settled on an (in)appropriate level of nerf.

The most common team I see nowadays is 141 Spidey/Pun/X

Nonce Equitaur 2

gobstopper wrote:

The most common team I see nowadays is 141 Spidey/Pun/X

Hannibal Lecter looks off to the empty cell, then smiles and looks back at Clarice.

"Not anymore."

Bainee

JoshBot3000 wrote:

Multiply them together
Old: 100% * 100% * 100% = 100% = exactly like classic spidey
New: 41% * 17% * 39% = 2.7% of what he used to be

Overall great breakdown of the individual skills.

The overall is not correct, it should be.

Old: 100% + 100% + 100% = 300%/3 = 100% = exactly like classic spidey
New: 41% * 17% * 39% = 97%/3 = 32.33% of what he used to be

Which makes more sense based on the individual percentages.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

gobstopper wrote:

The most common team I see nowadays is 141 Spidey/Pun/X

Hannibal Lecter looks off to the empty cell, then smiles and looks back at Clarice.

"Not anymore."

LazyThor sighs "MORE freaking overtime"

Unknown

Very happy with the changes. Spidey can still stun lock 1 character or strategically stun characters.


EVERY team I faced had Spidey on it, it was ridiculous.

Good stuff.

Unknown

Clintman wrote:

Garwalker wrote:

So glad I wasted 1250 gold on a weak **** Spidey blue last week. Unbelievable. Constantly questioning why I continue to keep playing this game.

Spidey has been on the chopping block for months and Ice mentioned over a week ago that Spidey nerfs were imminent. I am not trying to poke my finger in your eye, I know it doesn't make it much easier to take. But this nerf has been a long time coming.

Just don't go out and buy Classic Mag covers, or you might go postal in the near future.

Thanks for the tip. I've been hearing of a Spidy nerfing for so long, I went ahead and gambled. House took all my money. I'll be going postal when they change OBW since I'll be going back to her next week.

Unknown

Holey Webs, I just got Spidey a few days ago spending HP from a daily deal and even though it will take me ages to up him, now he's going to be nerfed.

My poor favorite webhead. May you weep at level 15 for a while while you get nerfed *gives Spiderman web based tissues*

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

jarcuri wrote:

I figured a higher cost to stun but 5 and a max of 2 or 3 turns? He's absolutely useless other than throwing in for a quick heal in a cheap pve setting....way to kill Spiderman if that was what you were looking for.....I blame people for complaining about him being op.....do the players who have spent isos on him get some back now because he is a worthless 141 for me

What *cheap* heal?

Cheaper than using one of your 5 heals

Unknown

Moghwyn wrote:

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Moghwyn wrote:

Looking at Loki, Ragnarok, Classic Storm, Spider-Man and Classic Magneto in their pre-nerfed glory the only thing I see is an utter lack of understanding in anything resembling game balance. It wasn't just a stupid idea, it was also blatantly obvious.

Based on the inclusion of C.Storm and Loki on that list its very clear you're a huge fan of excessive power creep. I am a big fan of hard countering characters, but If you think that sore thumbs like Spider-man and Ragnarok didn't need nerfing, then you may be too far gone to reason with.

You might want to check what C.Storm and Loki did before they were nerfed. I don't suppose calling that a stupid idea makes me much of an excessive power creep fan. Quite the contrary.

Does anyone has old Loki powers and could link / publish them? I didn't even know that he was nerfed.

Unknown

I haven't read the whole thread. Just some at the beginning, some at the middle, and now some at the end. So I may have missed responses.

Spiderman was so massively, radically overpowered before that the AI could sometimes kick my **** with him. The AI! People used to say that Spidey was the only character the AI knew how to play properly! That's how OP he was. So it should come as no surprise that when he is normalized many people claim that he has been bagmaned or ragnaroked or nerfed into oblivion.

In all honesty, he looks fine. None of us have played with him yet, but from an objective view I would say he looks about right. Any ability at 5 ap is pretty cheap, and the cost is not too out of line with other stun abilities. Venom has a one turn stun at 4ap, but Spiderman may potentially stun for 3 turns for 5. MBW stuns for multiple turns, but at 9 ap, so a higher threshold. In my opinion, 'stunlock' shouldn't be a thing, anyway. The ability to stun the entire enemy team repeatedly is ridiculous.

His healing is fine, it may have gotten slightly better, situationally. And he's still the only one who does it. Who are you going to use to heal instead? OBW? I love seeing that node in PVP.

And the protect tiles should be less valuable than Panther's or anyone with an active protect ability, because they are completely and totally free. They should be less valuable than bullseye, too, because frankly, what else does bullseye do?

The fact is Spiderman has a unique and worthwhile toolset. He looks to be now on par with other support characters (the entire class of whom barring Hood seem to be unappreciated) rather than ridiculously overpowered.

I may even level him now that I've seen the changes. They are truly not as bad as they might have been.

Spoit

Actually, yes, I would probably have used OBW instead even before the nerf, because she actually does bring extra utility with her other skills. And talking about characters the AI is actually able to use well....

Dauthi

dlaw008 wrote:

In all honesty, he looks fine. None of us have played with him yet, but from an objective view I would say he looks about right. Any ability at 5 ap is pretty cheap, and the cost is not too out of line with other stun abilities. Venom has a one turn stun at 4ap, but Spiderman may potentially stun for 3 turns for 5. MBW stuns for multiple turns, but at 9 ap, so a higher threshold. In my opinion, 'stunlock' shouldn't be a thing, anyway. The ability to stun the entire enemy team repeatedly is ridiculous.

Yes, 5 ap is cheap when the ability is worth while. Tell me what a 1 turn stun is good for or a 3 turn stun on one target if you save up 10 ap? Don't kid yourself, he is not going to pay 5 blue ap to stun anyone for 3 turns unless you save 15 blue ap. Have you tried keeping IM 40's yellows on the board? Now instead of waiting 2 turns wait for more blue after having harvested 10-15 blue from the board.

Venom's stun hits the entire team, that is useful. So does MBW for 9 blue and she stuns one person for 5 turns. Honestly the only stun his is better than is DD.

And the protect tiles should be less valuable than Panther's or anyone with an active protect ability, because they are completely and totally free. They should be less valuable than bullseye, too, because frankly, what else does bullseye do?

They are free, but they are completely dependent on webs that cost 5 blue ap a piece staying on the board. To make matters worse if you use it asap like purple wants you to you are likely going to lose the extra stuns and healing due to putting webs out on the board too early and getting them destroyed. That is a huge risk, and the payout should be huge as well and yet having 1 web tile on the board post nerf is worse than having 0 pre-nerf.

He deserved to be nerfed, but not to below average usefulness. He is one of the most beloved characters in Marvel. He should put his bag back over his face and be ashamed.

Unknown

Emeryt wrote:

Moghwyn wrote:

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Moghwyn wrote:

Looking at Loki, Ragnarok, Classic Storm, Spider-Man and Classic Magneto in their pre-nerfed glory the only thing I see is an utter lack of understanding in anything resembling game balance. It wasn't just a stupid idea, it was also blatantly obvious.

Based on the inclusion of C.Storm and Loki on that list its very clear you're a huge fan of excessive power creep. I am a big fan of hard countering characters, but If you think that sore thumbs like Spider-man and Ragnarok didn't need nerfing, then you may be too far gone to reason with.

You might want to check what C.Storm and Loki did before they were nerfed. I don't suppose calling that a stupid idea makes me much of an excessive power creep fan. Quite the contrary.

Does anyone has old Loki powers and could link / publish them? I didn't even know that he was nerfed.

According to bug pop he made a mess of purples

viewtopic.php?p=132353#p132353

NorthernPolarity

I'm still trying to wrap my head around these changes. My first reaction was that he's going to be completely worthless in high-level PvP, but I think that's only because I have an extremely warped perception of PvP due to how C. Mags/Punisher in jungle trivializes any other team composition on offense. These changes will clearly make him obsolete in high-level PvP, but since most people have already realized that he is too slow in high-level PvP and have stopped using him even before this nerf, this nerf didn't change anything for PvP except for the transition people that depended on his ability to trivialize games, who are now basically screwed. PvE wise, everyone already stopped using him because of how healing increases your PvE MMR. The only time I ever used him in PvE was against level 300+ mobs for the stunlock, but since he can't do that anymore, I'm obviously going to stop using him all together except for prologue healing, which will now be his only use for high-end players.

I think these changes are the final nail in the coffin for veteran players using Spidey. His usefulness has already been slowly eroding away due to PvE scaling and PvP just having way faster options of winning the game than him, and now that his trump card of inevitability through stunlock has been taken away, I don't see anyone with a developed roster using him in PvP as is. Maybe once C. Mags gets nerfed and PvP becomes more about attrition and being able to win games without taking damage then Spidey might see a resurgence due to his heal giving you the ability to play for longer periods of time, but as is I don't see him doing anything except being a prologue healbot.
He reminds me of the Hulk in a way: he's fine for newer players transitioning into 3*s since he's probably still an upgrade to OBW, but once you complete your transition, you're just straight up almost never going to use him ever again. I guess he's a better investment than the Hulk simply because you will always be at least able to prologue heal with him. Hulk just doesn't do anything once you get LT/BP/Hood.

Unknown

With this change in Spidey, I'm wondering if I should keep him since I got him for the first time.

he is the 5th 3* I have obtained and now that he is going to be nerfed, dont know if he's worth keeping.

Dauthi

NorthernPolarity wrote:

as is I don't see him doing anything except being a prologue healbot.

Agreed.

He reminds me of the Hulk in a way: he's fine for newer players transitioning into 3*s since he's probably still an upgrade to OBW, but once you complete your transition, you're just straight up almost never going to use him ever again. I guess he's a better investment than the Hulk simply because you will always be at least able to prologue heal with him. Hulk just doesn't do anything once you get LT/BP/Hood.

Realize his healbot utility is geared towards hardcore players who actually play longer than health packs can sustain them. This means he will be worthless to a lot of people.

I don't think he will be a decent transition from anything the way he is. Players would be best off avoiding him like the plague unless they are apart of the small percentage of hardcore players who need a healbot to replace OBW at levels 110+.