*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

It's awful. He's Loki-tier now.

The biggest headscratcher for me is just how long it took for them to settle on this.

I guess we'll have to wait until the fall when they realize how bad they goofed up and introduce a 4 star Spidey.

Unknown

IceIX, have you used the new spidey yet? What is your experience?

Unknown

Emeryt wrote:

1. Slower scaling in PvE.
2. Defensive team in PvP will matter now.

More like:

1. We will finally have ppl realize spidey wasn't the issue with group scaling.

2. We will see a lot of extra def wins for a day from non-forum viewers going into a match saying ****? When 2 ap doesn't get them a stun. Then we will see a week or two of ppl with only a high lvl spidey try to adapt. Then we will see very few spidermen in PvP. Defensive teams will still not matter that much(not unless thor/patch/dakan/bp/mag/punisher/boosts are all nerfed)

Unknown

He's also got a hidden passive that nerfs new posts in General Discussion by 25%.

Unknown

Not impressed, he's pretty terrible.

Blue: way to expensive, maybe if the base stun was two turns it'd be good.
Yellow: too expensive, heals way less. I understand the attempt to prevent self healing, so w/e.
Purple: generally wasn't very good, now slightly worse.

Bottom line, you've taken a character who could do two things well and allowed him to do one thing well enough (healing is still best in game). I suppose as a 3* character he should have either one awesome skill or 3 decent skills that work well together. With spidey's heal I suppose he is still worthy of the 3* title. He was very slow for attacking purposes before, he is now slow for all purposes. I dub him GSBW II and cast him to the outskirts of my roster, only to be used when required or when I'm nearly out of health packs (which was pretty much already the case).

This change won't really effect me, but if I relied on spidey I'd be very mad.
Devs, please take your time nerfing CMag, many (probably most) of the serious players (probably large hp spenders) use him a lot. If you are not gentle with him, I fear for the reprocussions on your player base.

But thanks for letting us know about the change.

Spoit

soenottelling wrote:

Emeryt wrote:

1. Slower scaling in PvE.
2. Defensive team in PvP will matter now.

More like:

1. We will finally have ppl realize spidey wasn't the issue with group scaling.

2. We will see a lot of extra def wins for a day from non-forum viewers going into a match saying ****? When 2 ap doesn't get them a stun. Then we will see a week or two of ppl with only a high lvl spidey try to adapt. Then we will see very few spidermen in PvP. Defensive teams will still not matter that much(not unless thor/patch/dakan/bp/mag/punisher/boosts are all nerfed)

Yeah, while we're not seeing 400s yet, the new format which encourages grinding is making the scaling in the current PvE starting to approach untenable levels. Especially with all the lower ranked people driving the community scaling up since they don't care about it

Unknown

soenottelling wrote:

Emeryt wrote:

1. Slower scaling in PvE.
2. Defensive team in PvP will matter now.

More like:

1. We will finally have ppl realize spidey wasn't the issue with group scaling.

2. We will see a lot of extra def wins for a day from non-forum viewers going into a match saying ****? When 2 ap doesn't get them a stun. Then we will see a week or two of ppl with only a high lvl spidey try to adapt. Then we will see very few spidermen in PvP. Defensive teams will still not matter that much(not unless thor/patch/dakan/bp/mag/punisher/boosts are all nerfed)

so...pretty much nerf all the good 3* characters...thats the direction this game is going towards if we are just gunna nerf the good ones and dont fix the bad ones

IceIX

Spoit wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

As long as Spidey can completely lock out one character, he will still have value.

Except...he can't really? If you want single character lockdown, use MBW or cap

<NotSpeakingAsADev>

-Black Widow tops at Level 50, is insanely squishy even at low level, and costs 9 AP per ability use. That's 3 matches per use which isn't the easiest to do. Even harder to stun lock since getting 9 more AP isn't the easiest more than once as you run out of Blue on the board. -Captain America takes 12 Blue AP and only stuns for 2 turns, getting AP back on the third. It's impossible to stun lock even one enemy until you get 24(!) Blue AP. His placement of Countdown tile is more useful than the Stun itself for me. -Storm takes 11 AP and stuns for 4 turns to one opponent. Also nearly impossible to stun lock. Her AoE damage is the key to this skill, the stun is a nice bonus. -Spider-Man can build a couple smaller stuns for 5 AP a piece and start in on 3 turn stuns with his third usage. At that point, his additional 3 turn stuns are *still* 5 AP. There's a large difference between 3 matches and 1.6 matches per ability usage. His ability to chain together stuns is still quite a bit better than anyone else on the field.

</NotSpeakingAsADev>

Spoit

Saint Matthew wrote:

exactly. it's Good still, it just isn't stupidly good.

If all you need is one turn of stun, like say, to take care of hulk with a bunch of strike tile powers, sure. But for every other use? 1 turn is nothing. And you're not going to get more than 3 casts off a game unless you're using a blue battery like mn mags or IM40

Nonce Equitaur 2

Spiderman isn't considered a lot of fun to play, based on a Forum poll.

Still, this will make him even less fun.

In the spidey funbalancing, there were lots of suggestions for making the character less powerful but more fun to play. For example.

Web Interference - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man puts a web on a chosen location, slowing the enemy plans. He chooses and webs a basic tile, and opponent powers using that color are unusable until the webbing is removed. The webbing remains for 2 turns, then splits and remains on two random environment tiles, dissolving in a few days.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Countdown tiles may be webbed, stopping enemy countdown tiles for the webbed color.
Level 3: Attack tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy attack tiles for the webbed color. Webbing remains 3 rounds.
Level 4: Protect tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy protect tiles for the webbed color.
Level 5: Strike and trap tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy strike and trap tiles for the webbed colors. Webbing remains 4 rounds.

One possibility -- let Spiderman choose a basic tile for where the yellow web tile will go. Now that they are more expensive to cast, the web tiles are much more precious. When a web tile gravitates to an easy yellow 4-match, it's much more jarring now. It's the "anywhere but there" problem. The characters that can choose where their vital tiles go, like Magneto, Hood, Captain America, are considered the most fun to play. The characters that glide on the pure whims of fate for their tiles are much less fun to play.

If Spidey could choose a basic tile for his web tile, that would make him more interesting to play.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

It's awful. He's Loki-tier now.

He's hardly Loki tier, he's just not his old OP self. He still has 3 usable abilities instead of Loki's 1 niche and 1 passable abilties.

Spoit wrote:

If all you need is one turn of stun, like say, to take care of hulk with a bunch of strike tile powers, sure. But for every other use? 1 turn is nothing. And you're not going to get more than 3 casts off a game unless you're using a blue battery like mn mags or IM40

I think that's part of the idea, he doesn't just automatically jump into any team anymore, there's more planning involved.

Spoit

But like, trying to buy time to get a countdown tile match lined up? 1 turn isn't going to do anything for that

Unknown

Well, of course this happened today. I pulled my third Spidey blue today, my first Spidey blue since FREAKING DECEMBER, so of course he gets the nerf today.

Actually, I think this sounds like a good redesign; he'll still be a useful character.

Ice, what was the version that had an exploit you alluded to earlier?

Unknown

Will his covers be in rotation again?

I haven't seen a Spidey cover in months.

Nonce Equitaur 2

IceIX wrote:

-Captain America takes 12 Blue AP and only stuns for 2 turns, getting AP back on the third. It's impossible to stun lock even one enemy until you get 24(!) Blue AP. His placement of Countdown tile is more useful than the Stun itself for me.

My 2* Captain America singlehandedly took down a level 359 3*Daken at full health (14498 health points). Took forever, but ultimately worth it (unless my MMR goes up yet again). That seems to be impossible with Spidey now -- the blue tiles will run out.

Also ... Hood + Cap has an effective stunlock for awhile, until Hood's Black runs out.

Unknown

Hooray! Suffer, mid and low-leveled trash teams, suffer! No more cheap pointstealig in PVP! Time to learn to play instead mindless 2AP perm-stun on every turn, lol.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

Well, of course this happened today. I pulled my third Spidey blue today, my first Spidey blue since FREAKING DECEMBER, so of course he gets the nerf today.

We owe You then

IceIX, can we expect higher value for selling our Spideys, like it was with Thor and Wolvie?

IceIX

Ben Grimm wrote:

Well, of course this happened today. I pulled my third Spidey blue today, my first Spidey blue since FREAKING DECEMBER, so of course he gets the nerf today.

Actually, I think this sounds like a good redesign; he'll still be a useful character.

Ice, what was the version that had an exploit you alluded to earlier?

It was a version of the one prior to the current. It was relatively easy to make Spider-Man pretty well unkillable. It was amusing, but not very Spider-Man.

over_clocked

Emeryt, why would you want to sell Spidey? Now we are gonna see his featured/required events. Have you also sold Thor** and Cap** which are buffed in Oscorp right now?

Unknown

Eh, I'll bite on Spidey vs Cap.

The point of the nerf was to rid of an OP tactic called stunlock. Is Spidey the best at stunlock? Yes. Is it viable and a goal? I'd say it's viable but not a goal that you should aim for as a general purpose strat.

Cap can stunlock but not as good as Spidey. However, imo he is the better stunner overall. It's more cost effective and on top of that has additional benefits (tile control and a protect tile).