*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

are the people who don't have his Blue maxed the only ones complaining for a nerf?
It just makes me want to go get those Blue covers now after having my *** handed to me just now.....

Unknown

I have my spider-man maxed out and but I still think he needs a rework. Because its still a pain in the **** to play against other spider-men and the stunlock strategy gets kind of boring. I'm hoping for more of a rework than a nerf though

Unknown

Mine is maxed too and I also think he needs a rework. At Season 1 almost every team use him in order to beat any team combination. It becomes the PvP into something boring

IceIX

The time is finally almost here for old Web Head to receive his turn in the crucible of the balance pass. Below is the updated design for each of his abilities. We're currently planning on putting these Live next week.

Old Ability:

Web Bandages - Yellow 13 AP
Spider-Man makes make-shift slings of webbing for his friends. Removes all Web tiles, and all allies heal 118 health for every Web tile removed (minimum 118, maximum 1892).
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.

Max Level: Heals 741HP per web tile (up to 11864HP)

Updated Ability:

Web Bandages - Yellow 12 AP
Spider-Man webs makeshift slings, healing his team for 142. If 3 or more Web tiles exist he converts them to bandages, healing his team for an additional 149.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Increases base healing to 199. Level 3: Increases base healing to 256. Level 4: Increases base healing to 312. Level 5: Increases base healing to 369. Max level 141 5/5: Heals for 2314 with an additional 934 with 3 Web tiles.[/u] Level 85 5/5: 1534 base healing + 619 with Web tiles = 2153 max healing Compare to Black Widow (Original) max level - 1228 healing

This ability went through the most changes in design. It went from a numbers tweaked version of its old self, which was either underpowered or overpowered solely based on how well it worked with All Tied Up. To remedy this, it went to an easier to balance self heal that threw out group heals if enough Web tiles on the board. This worked better but didn't feel very Spider-Man-like. In order for it to feel good enough to use, it had to be so powerful in the heal that Spider-Man felt more like Phoenix, rising from the ashes. Eventually, it morphed into the current form.

In this form, the ability is still somewhat of a high cost, so it's not a simple matter to throw out healing. This enables players to go into an AP denial mode against an opponent using Spider-Man and prevent them from easily healing the team. At the same time, it benefits from using All Tied Up without full on requiring the ability to be used multiple times in order to be useful. This allows players to feel like the ability is useful on its own without completely tying it to another ability that with its own changes makes it not a 100% relied upon source of power.

Older Ability:

All Tied Up - Blue 6 AP
Spider-Man wraps up the target in webbing, adding a new Yellow Web tile to the board and then stunning the enemy for 1 turn for each Web tile on the board (to a maximum of 5 turns).
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.

Updated Ability:

All Tied Up - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: +1 turn of stun if 3 Web tiles exist Level 3: +1 turn of stun if 2 Web tiles exist Level 4: +1 turn of stun if 1 Web tile exists Level 5: +1 or +2 turns of stun when 1 or 2 Web tiles exist

This change is less extreme than the one to Web Bandages, but still serves to bring this ability into line with the other Stuns in the game. The ability remains low cost and able to quickly ramp up in effectiveness given the increasing number of Web tiles on the board. This encourages players to constantly use the power instead of hoarding it for a burst as it is often used at current. Each level of the ability now greatly adds to its utility, making Level 5 highly valuable in increasing the effectiveness of the ability. At that level, a three turn Stun and the low cost enables Spider-Man to keep up a perma-stun on the opponent with enough matches available, someone feeding Blue AP, or a cache of available Blue AP. So it's still a possibly powerful ability in the hands of a player/team that is geared to take advantage of it. However, unlike previously it does not allow Spider-Man to lock down an enemy for each and every Blue match that is made, often deciding the battle's course with a single Blue match.

Older Ability:

Spider-Sense - Purple Passive
(PASSIVE) Spider-Man's senses tingle and he moves to protect his team. If there aren't any friendly Purple Protect tiles, he creates one when his team matches Purple tiles. New Protect tile Strength is based on the number of Web tiles in play.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Creates up to 2 Purple Protect tiles. Level 3: Increases base Protect Strength by 25% Level 4: Creates up to 3 Purple Protect tiles. Level 5: Increases base Protect Strength by 25%

Max Level: Damage reduced by 66 per Protect tile with 0 Web tiles on board (up to 446 per Protect tile with 5 Web tiles on board).

Updated Ability:

Spider-Sense - Purple Passive
(PASSIVE) Spider-Man's senses tingle and he moves to protect his team. If there aren't any friendly Purple Protect tiles, he creates one when his team matches Purple tiles. New Protect tile Strength is based on the number of Web tiles in play.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Creates up to 2 Purple Protect tiles. Level 3: Increases base Protect Strength by 25% Level 4: Creates up to 3 Purple Protect tiles. Level 5: Increases base Protect Strength by 25%

Max Level 141 5/5: 20/54/115/210 Protect tiles depending on Web tiles on board.

This ability was untouched in form but the numbers were rebalanced a bit. The max number of Web tiles needed for this skill was reduced from 5 to 3 with the lower end of the Protect tile strengths being brought down as well. This makes the ability one that you want to start triggering Web tiles for immediately instead of just working with what you get, as the higher end Protect tiles can make a real difference. However, the top end for the old ability was a bit too high, allowing Spider-Man to make Protect tiles that rivaled the highest cost Protect oriented abilities, much less a Passive.

Unknown

In before the hate.

Unknown

Spider sense nerf seems about right because it usually ends up doing better than active abilities that put protection tiles even with no web tiles out.

It's hard for me to make sense of the interaction of the new yellow and blue without using the character (it's too abstract to think about how it plays out without using the character). The interaction between blue and purple looks okay.

Please don't design "Thor or Devil Dino + 2 green AP feeder" encounters just because Spiderman can still sometimes shut them down in the future.

Unknown

1. Slower scaling in PvE.
2. Defensive team in PvP will matter now.

IceIX

soenottelling wrote:

In before the hate.

I've got my asbestos underwear on already.

Unknown

So with the new blue, say you have 15 blue AP. you cast it once to stun a guy for 1 turn, you can then cast it again on the second guy for a 2 turn stun on them, and then the final guy for 3 turns? This is quite the nerf! We all saw it coming and I am happy about it but just trying to make sure I understand it correctly here.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Looks good to me. The Spideys in PvP will be more of a pushover now, so hopefully we'll see less of him there. Not quite as powerful as before, but still highly useful.

Of note -- it appears that healing no longer uses up the web tiles. That favors him in a long game.

Unknown

Ice has announced the retooling of Spiderman (Classic).

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7390


I think it's safe to say that he's had his spider-balls removed by these changes.

IceIX

sms4002 wrote:

So with the new blue, say you have 15 blue AP. you cast it once to stun a guy for 1 turn, you can then cast it again on the second guy for a 2 turn stun on them, and then the final guy for 3 turns? This is quite the nerf! We all saw it coming and I am happy about it but just trying to make sure I understand it correctly here.

At Level 5, yes. That's similar to how it works at current, but topping out at 3 turns with 3 Web tiles instead of 5 turns at 5 Web tiles. You could still stun one enemy for 1, then 2, then 3 turns however.

Unknown

IceIX

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Looks good to me. The Spideys in PvP will be more of a pushover now, so hopefully we'll see less of him there. Not quite as powerful as before, but still highly useful.

Of note -- it appears that healing no longer uses up the web tiles. That favors him in a long game.

It eats Web tiles to use up the extra healing at 3+ tiles on the board. at 1/2 tiles, it heals for the base amount. That lets you make a tactical choice as to whether to continue pumping out the stuns with All Tied Up or eat the tiles for a healing boost.

Spoit

6 turns of stun total for 15 AP? I guess DD is worthwhile now!

Unknown

This change actually makes Spiderman slightly more powerful on defense because before you usually just focused on blue and you don't care that Spiderman gets off a heal for 900 HP with no web tiles out. Now it'd be in the 2K range even if there are no web tiles so you can't just feed yellow to the other side. Of course since you don't have to worry about perma stunlocks you also don't have to deny blue anymore and can focus on other colors.

It seems like there's this shift to make yellow a more relevent or even a significant color after being utterly irrelevent prior to the introduction of lazy Thor.

KaioShinDE

About time. He still seems like a character I'd like on my team, so everything is cool I guess.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

6 turns of stun total for 15 AP? I guess DD is worthwhile now!

DD would still set off traps even stunned! (A bug I complained about long ago!)

Clintman

Thank god I transitioned to not using spiderman a few months ago. I can comfortably wave goodbye to him, and thankfully have a deep enough roster that I can live without heals.

You will have to make a tactical decision now, save up 36 yellow and 45 Blue to heal up the Hulk, or just use a healthpack. Can you finish that fight in under 30 minutes

Unknown

Looks pretty decent enough to me. Nothing to get outraged at or anything ^_^

Sidenote: Any update on Mr. Legendary Wolverine taking the crown away from Patches and, sadly, even Astonishing? I can't help but see a sad Logan sitting there feeling like a 1-star