*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

Yeah looking at it again (especially with boosts in mind) the protect tile is definitely making it seem over powered.

I edited my last post with some comments about boosting. I think without the protect tile I might have something so I'll think about it some more.

Unknown

Alright here we go, this is more true to the original power. It definitely keeps the possibility of stun locking the entire enemy team if you've boosted and get a favorable board. I'm just not sure if it's possible to prevent that without completely changing the power and hitting Spidey with the Nerf Bazooka.

Level 1: Costs 4ap + 1 ap for each web tile on the board. Stuns the target for 1 turn + 1 turn for each web tile on the board (to a maximum of 4 turns). Converts a standard yellow tile to a web tile.
Level 2: Stuns the target for 2 turns + 1 turn for each web tile on the board (to a maximum of 5 turns).
Level 3: Stuns the entire enemy team for 1 turn + 1 turn for each web tile on the board (to a maximum of 4 turns). Converts a standard yellow tile to a web tile. Base cost is increased to 5ap.
Level 4: When none already exist converts 1 basic blue tile to a blue protect tile of strength x.
Level 5: Base cost is reduced to 4ap.

So with boosts at level 5 you could start with a one turn enemy stun for 4ap, leaving you 2. Make a three match and stun again for two turns with 5ap leaving you with 0. If you can spend those two turns collecting 6 blue ap then so be it, stun them again for 3, leaving you 0 blue ap. Now you have 3 turns to collect another 7 blue ap (or destroy some web tiles), on most boards this is already becoming dicey and up to this point you haven't collected any other ap (barring match 4's and 5's).

A nice balance has to be kept with web tiles otherwise you run the risk of making it too expensive.

Unknown

So you get a full team stun and a protect tile for half the AP cost of Venom's full team stun and then it only gets better from there?

For less than the cost of Cap's Peacemaker you can stun the entire enemy team for 3 turns?

Seems busted

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Seems busted

More than likely, so would tweaking the ap costs help?

Unknown

I've personally been thinking, similar to others, that 5-6ap will be the floor on costs. With that in mind, I'd been thinking the cost is raised to 5, but he stuns for number of web tiles + 1 turn (or #web + 2 turns).

It makes the first cast less useless and the stuns would very much slow down the opposing team, but not be a lock. Stunlock is really a trump card to anything in the game. It's been a game breaking ability in any online games I've played over the last 15 years. There's no way it can stay.

Kolence

How about raising the cost of the ability the more web tiles there are on the board? Something like:
costs 3AP + 1 for every web tile in play
stuns for 1 turn/# web tiles

That would stun 1 turn for 3AP,
next would stun 2 turns for 4AP,
then 3 turns for 5AP,
then 4 turns for 6AP,
and finally 5 turns for 7AP (then it is maxed)

If it is still too powerful after several turns just not right from the start, just raise the starting cost. The point is to keep Spidey able to stun people for 2-3-4 turns, just not all of them all the time.
As for the levels 1 through 5 of the ability, that's beyond me.

But if you want a team stun (as in x AP stuns the whole team for y turns), I feel it should be like Venom's or Widow's are. That means just one turn for the team with possibly more for the direct target. Otherwise it would be kind of broken if you can match x needed in y turns.

Unknown

Kolence wrote:

How about raising the cost of the ability the more web tiles there are on the board? Something like:
costs 3AP + 1 for every web tile in play
stuns for 1 turn/# web tiles

That would stun 1 turn for 3AP,
next would stun 2 turns for 4AP,
then 3 turns for 5AP,
then 4 turns for 6AP,
and finally 5 turns for 7AP (then it is maxed)

If it is still too powerful after several turns just not right from the start, just raise the starting cost. The point is to keep Spidey able to stun people for 2-3-4 turns, just not all of them all the time.
As for the levels 1 through 5 of the ability, that's beyond me.

But if you want a team stun (as in x AP stuns the whole team for y turns), I feel it should be like Venom's or Widow's are. That means just one turn for the team with possibly more for the direct target. Otherwise it would be kind of broken if you can match x needed in y turns.

I was about to put up this idea my self.
The best way to do this would be.

1 Blue Cover: Cost 4 AP. Transforming 1 blue tile to a yellow web tiles and stun enemy 1 turn for every 1 web tile on board. Each web tile on board make it cost 2 more AP. (max cost 14 AP, this mean it only count up to 5 web tile, any web tile after 5 is ignore as you can only stun enemy for 5 turn)
2 Blue Cover: Reduce initial cost to 3 AP
3 Blue Cover: Reduce the additional cost for each web tile to 1 AP
4 Blue Cover: Reduce intial cost to 2 AP
5 Blue Cover: Reduce the additional cost to 1AP for ever 2 web tile on board( Odd number of tile get round up to the next even number so if you have 3 web tile it will cost 2 more AP)

This way each lvl of cover only experience a minor nerf and the nerf will affect all level of cover evenly.
The main point here is to transform blue tile to yellow web tile, which mean less blue tile on board the more you use it. Also mean you can accidentally make a yellow match using all tied up which mean you have to pay more attention when using the skill.

Unknown

I think even a AP cost of 2AP +1 per web tile with a maximium of 7AP total is enough. That means that a stun of 5 turns is going to cost 7AP. I mean BWM stun for 5 turns and 1 turn for others costs 9AP so in comparision this seems reasonable. That means its going to take 20AP to get to 5 turn stuns (2+3+4+5+6), a lot of characters are going to be ending games with 20AP. Thats 3 HT fireballs, a call of the strorm, almost 2 rage of the panthers, etc.

Kolence

I got another idea. To make harder healing the whole team before the end of the fight.
Make yellow skill consume a few web tiles at a time but for a lower cost. Something like:

heals (#_of_web_tiles_consumed + 1) x Y hp (Y scales with level)
cost base_cost + 1 for every web tile consumed
level 1: base_cost = 6; consumes up to 1 random web tile (of any color);
level 2: base_cost = 5; consumes up to 2 web tiles;
level 3: base_cost = 5; consumes up to 3 web tiles;
level 4: base_cost = 4; consumes up to 4 web tiles; can choose 1 tile (not just web) that won't be consumed;
level 5: base_cost = 4; consumes up to 5 web tiles; can choose 2 tiles that won't be consumed.

This is meant to work together with the earlier proposal for blue skill:

Kolence wrote:

How about raising the cost of the ability the more web tiles there are on the board? Something like:
costs 3AP + 1 for every web tile in play
stuns for 1 turn/# web tiles

So, does this make any sense?
My idea is that higher levels 4 or 5 can help with stunning by "eating" only one web tile and leaving 1-2 to stun for 2-3 turns for less blue but 5 more yellow.

Spoit

I have an idea, if we're still talking about making the costs to ridiculous levels, how about making the blue not add extra turns!

10 AP for 5 turns of stun sounds fair, no?

Phaserhawk

you have to realize any nerf in his AP costs greatly effects him since he does no direct damage. I have said it again and again, allow a random webtile to occur after you make a purple match, then you can increase the cost of blue AP without issue because you can still generate web tiles. then allow 1 stun per 3 web tiles, minimum 1 stun. Because you will create more web tiles due to purple, you'll have to drop the heal on yellow alot, as well as decrease the shield strength per tile on purple. But that way spidey blue stil costs 2AP, but in order to stun 2 turns, you would have to have 3 web tiles out, to stun 3 turns you would need 6 web tiles out. That way Spidey is still the same just not as spammable, and that's probably the biggest issue.

Highdark

My take at a spiderman nerf

Yellow the same with a flat 10% increase in the heal

The reason for the heal increase is that there will much fewer web tiles on the board, which the 10% increase will compensate for. A person will have to make the choice of sacrificing all of his team locking power for his heal

Blue is 9 cost that creates one web tile and stuns entire enemy team per web tile up to 5. Cost reduced -1 per cover down to 5

Pink is the same.

This would allow spiderman still to do the stunlocking we all love without being out of control. 5 cost stun is much harder to maintain also harder to keep web tiles up to keep stun duration up. Now some people might argue "this means that with 30 blue he could ostensibly keep a team stunlocked for 20 turns" which is true, but if someone gets 30 of one resource is game ending for example two Call of the storm, rage of the panther, etc.

Comments? (if someone already had this idea its new to me so forgive me : ( )

Phaserhawk

What if they just changed Spiderman's Blue from Stun to say, Lockdown. The character cant move tiles or abilties, but abilties that are passive, or CD tiles wouldn't be affected.

Example: You Lockdown Hulk, he can't attack you, he can't cast active abilties, but if you damage him he will still get Angry.

Example 2: You lockdown Daken, then make a green tile Match, team would still get strike tiles.

Example 3: You lockdown IM40, he can't cast anything, but if he already cast recharge, the tiles would still count down.

I look at you arent' stunning the guys, you are sticking the guys. They can't move, they can't fire rockets or throw hammers, but what they've done is done and can't be stopped. If you allowed this, Spiderman loses power in PvE where he is a big problem, and in PvP you can counter him easier, knowing your Ares timer will still go down, or Daken will still generate you strike tiles, or IM40 can still recharge. Honestly this might be the simplest and easiest fix to Spider-man, he can't stunlock you anymore, just lock you

Unknown

I think he's next on the change-ing block. Just have to wait to see what happens

Unknown

Does anyone run a 4/5/4/Spidey?

I've been running mine @ 5/5/3 forever with no complaints. Today i pulled a Purple from a regular token and it got me thinking about using it.

I'd be trading off the ability to heal @ 9 yellow AP for the ability to have 3 protect tiles out @ once.

Any thoughts? I'm really torn. My gut says that it probably won't be that big of a deal as i generally only use the heal at the end of a match if i need it. I think the ability to have 3 protect tiles out at once could be a big deal in PVP when the AI plays for me. Thanks in advance.

marc

Unknown

djsquillz wrote:

Does anyone run a 4/5/4/Spidey?

I've been running mine @ 5/5/3 forever with no complaints. Today i pulled a Purple from a regular token and it got me thinking about using it.

I'd be trading off the ability to heal @ 9 yellow AP for the ability to have 3 protect tiles out @ once.

Any thoughts? I'm really torn. My gut says that it probably won't be that big of a deal as i generally only use the heal at the end of a match if i need it. I think the ability to have 3 protect tiles out at once could be a big deal in PVP when the AI plays for me. Thanks in advance.

marc

I run a 4/5/4 and can exit 99% of fights at full health. the extra protect tile lessens the damage you take over the course of the battle, so you have time to get the extra yellow that you need at the end. I've even considered going 3/5/5 if I chance upon another purple.

I'm also waiting to level until I know what the nerf does....

Unknown

The reason I carry spidey?

I sometimes I need to stun an opponents spidey. I've been seriously considering moving from 5/5/3 (I had him at 5/5 before his purple ability was released) to 3/5/5. He comes in handy at times to block c.mag purple or bp black. I've become so annoyed with that one extra shield tile I think it's worth having on my side.

Unknown

I run 4/5/4. Just because the healing you lose is insignificant and the defense you gain can be significant. Especially if you run with CMags or GSBW and will be using a lot of purple.

If I ever get another purple, I will consider going to 3/5/5, because I think his purple will be safe from a nerf.

mags1587

I run 3/5/5 and I like it. I don't always notice the protect tile's impact, but it's nice to have 3 on the board, and I don't have any problems collecting enough AP for his heal.

Unknown

mags1587 wrote:

I run 3/5/5 and I like it. I don't always notice the protect tile's impact, but it's nice to have 3 on the board, and I don't have any problems collecting enough AP for his heal.

It is somewhat irritating to me. I believe it makes a difference, as I've noticed that it makes a difference in the damage dealt in cascading matches.