*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

A stun that stuns a team for two turns is twice as powerful as the most powerful stun in the game, so even though the conditions for longer stun is fairly harsh, it's still nowhere harsh enough. It'd be better to simply make the proposed blue do more damage as a function of web tiles (up to a certain max) and leave the stun at always 1 turn.

mischiefmaker

I'd much rather have the stun only stun one character and either be cheaper or last longer. As it is, he seems borderline unplayable.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

A stun that stuns a team for two turns is twice as powerful as the most powerful stun in the game, so even though the conditions for longer stun is fairly harsh, it's still nowhere harsh enough. It'd be better to simply make the proposed blue do more damage as a function of web tiles (up to a certain max) and leave the stun at always 1 turn.

Okay, I can see that, so sure, no mass stun, keep him true to original

Phaserhawk

mischiefmaker wrote:

I'd much rather have the stun only stun one character and either be cheaper or last longer. As it is, he seems borderline unplayable.

you mean how he is currently? If they ever get around to funbalancing him, that's not gonna happen, that's why for the less stun you will get a damage trade off, and because you can't stun as much and thus generate webtiles, purple will also generate webtiles, he will function the same as he does now, just no mass stunning, but you will be able to damage now.

Unknown

I think mm was saying you can only apply his stun to one character at a time. So, if you choose to lock out one character the whole match, you can do that (as long as you keep up the supply of blue AP).


Phaserhawk: Am I reading your idea right? If I want to stun a character for 4 turns, I would need to collect 42 blue AP?

mischiefmaker

Actually, what I meant was something similar to how it currently works, but obviously not so powerful. I like using Spidey in emergencies to stop one character from getting off a nuke; it's satisfying to give yourself just enough breathing room to down that character or cause the AI to spend the AP on something less threatening. The trick is to find a balance between "emergency tactical use" and "complete stunlock".

I do, however, like the idea that you can only stun one character at a time -- at least it's a newish mechanic, and it definitely prevents stunlock, plus guarantees that he will at least have niche use in villain/goon/goon PvE fights.

Although on first read I totally missed that purple creates web tiles; it looked the same as the current power so I assumed it was the same. With that in mind, he seems playable but boring. SpiderMan/Venom seems like it might be fun, with purple doing double duty, creating web tiles and stunning.

Unknown

Spider-Man doesn't need any adjustments, he's just fine. He's a 3* character who can only damage through matching and doesn't have a lot of health. What he can do is bind you up with his webs and evade some trouble with his spider-sense (though his purple power is just a tacked-on throw away no one really cares about). For (a maxed-out) Spider-Man to stun-lock a whole team for more than two rounds, and heal his own team, requires quite a bit of matching to set up. If you're on offense, a good 2* offensive character can take the defending Spidey out before this happens, if the AI is even smart enough to attempt it. If you're on defense... who cares? There is no defense, so why worry about attacking Spider-Men at all?

If you have Spider-Man, enjoy him. If you're fighting against him, target him. He's by no means over-powered any more than many others, and he doesn't single-handedly make or break a team.

Is his stun cheap (on AP) and easy? Yeah. But he's a 3* character who also happens to be the face of Marvel Comics. He's Spider-Man, dammit, the guy who single-handedly defeated a herald of Galactus. He's the bomb, and his MPQ presense should reflect that.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Web Interference - Blue 5 AP
Spider-Man puts a web on a chosen location, slowing the enemy plans. He chooses and webs a basic tile, and opponent powers using that color are unusable until the webbing is removed. The webbing remains for 2 turns, then splits and remains on two random environment tiles, dissolving in a few days.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Countdown tiles may be webbed, stopping enemy countdown tiles for the webbed color.
Level 3: Attack tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy attack tiles for the webbed color. Webbing remains 3 rounds.
Level 4: Protect tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy protect tiles for the webbed color.
Level 5: Strike and trap tiles may be webbed, nullifying enemy strike and trap tiles for the webbed colors. Webbing remains 4 rounds.

This removes Stun entirely, and allows the opponents to move, but can nullify enemy powers for awhile. Full power against Daken/Rags, webbing a red tile would prevent Thunderclap for 4 rounds. A green match would still generate red strike tiles, and they would still hurt, unless it was a red strike tile that was webbed. If a green tile was webbed, Daken would no longer make red strike tiles on a green match. If the webbed tile was cleared, they could start using their powers immediately.

The webs clinging to environment tiles are usable for healing.

mischiefmaker

I like it quite a lot. Might be too cheap, considering how many blue generators there are, but it might not since you can always clear the web tile. Love that it's a new mechanic; we could use more of those.

I'm not sure you need the extra webs on env tiles -- it makes the ability more confusing and might make heal too strong. I think it's fine to force the player to choose between keeping powers locked down and healing.

mags1587

I would seriously hate to lose stun entirely. Sometimes yes, I just want to keep a power from going off, but other times I want to keep the entire opposing team from making a match so I can set up a match-5 or cascade.

Nonce Equitaur 2

The price of putting down a web tile has gone up a lot. They also decay. If healing erases them, then it would cost 10 Blue AP to lay down two webs and 13 Yellow AP to use those two tiles. That would be a major nerf on the current healing.

Shifting them to the environment mimics a comic book effect, and lets healing stay as it is.

If the webbing remains for a few hours, that could have an amusing effect. Suppose a fight ends with 3 environment tiles webbed. In the same session, if a team goes into the same place/environment, then those 3 webbed environment tiles might still be there.

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

I do, however, like the idea that you can only stun one character at a time -- at least it's a newish mechanic, and it definitely prevents stunlock, plus guarantees that he will at least have niche use in villain/goon/goon PvE fights.

All Tied Up - Blue 4 AP
Spider-Man focuses on a single target, completely wrapping them up in webbing. The enemy team is unstunned, then Spider-Man adds a new Yellow Web tile to the board and stuns the target for 1 turn for each Web tile on the board (to a maximum of 3 turns).
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Maximum of 4 turns.
Level 3: Unstuns Spider-Man's team as well.
Level 4: Maximum of 5 turns.
Level 5: Adds two web tiles.

Unknown

Just had a match against Spiderman go for 35 minutes straight without a turn. Both his teammates where down when he got enough blue to stun lock. I went to eat and came back and he was still knocking health off my hulk 1-5 hp at a time. I went ahead and retreated and got a -5 hit but I thought it was quite interesting that stun lock could work that long.

Not entirely sure what a possible solution is here but it seems a bit sad that a single turn could last 35 minutes. Not a big concern but did think it was amusing.

TheHueyFreeman

I had been holding off for awhile now on leveling him (can get him to 70s with 2/3/3) due to the pending nerf but unless he becomes useless, he will at least be a 3 star healer and may stun. That may be enough to keep him around. Thoughts?

NorthernPolarity

With only 3 blue covers, i think obw is still a better healer than spidey, so there really is no reason to level him for you right now (assuming you have a high level obw). D3 has proven to be less drastic with nerfs since rag, so if you spidey had more blue, leveling him could be a decent idea, but better safe than sorry imo.

Spoit

Don't underestimate OBW's heal though, 1.2k is still quite a lot, and if you don't have another blue power, she can fire them off multiple times a match.

(talking about rags, did they ever get around to doing anything about that, like they did for wolvie/thor, or was their answer just the general selling price increase?)

Unknown

Spider man will be balanced if his blue at lvl 5 costs 6 AP.

I expect this to be the balance.
I only worry what will happen to levels 1-4.

Unknown

It's all about the blue stun power imo. My Spidey is in the 60's but he sucks because I only have 1 blue cover. I suspect if I had more blue covers, not sure how many, he would be quite the contender even if he was still in the 30's.

Unknown

I can think of a couple.

1. Main tank/dps takes priority over a support chara.
2. A fully covered obw takes priority over an incomplete spidey.
3. You don't like spidey.

Spoit

MAdnRisKy wrote:

Spider man will be balanced if his blue at lvl 5 costs 6 AP.

I expect this to be the balance.
I only worry what will happen to levels 1-4.

That is exactly the kind of thinking that is I hope they DON'T take. It takes a good 3-4 casts for the number of web tiles to really ramp up, and both of his other powers are completely dependent on it.

MBW's stun is only 9 blue for 5 turns and has a team stun too. Just increasing the cost and calling it a day is what they did to Rags, whereas what they need to do is a thor yellow-style funbalance, where they look at it and actually work around with the synergies that already exist