Should they nerf BSZ?

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Comments

  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    edited April 2019
    Yes
    If nothing else, the overwhelming silence from the team about BSZ means they're going to make drastic changes to it.

    edit: and it may end up bugging out afterwards, along with other stored mana cards
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes
    Mark_Tedin said:
    Here are my real concerns:

    -https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77604/game-crashes-during-almost-every-match-investigating

    -https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77713/game-lock-during-loop-prevention-system-popup

    -https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78142/long-time-veterans-player-level-adjustment-4-22-19 (FIASCO)

    -https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77578/loop-prevention-system-more-details-updated-3-12-19#latest (FIASCO)

    -https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77300/summon-vs-cast-objective-inconsistencies-master-thread-updated-4-1-19#latest

    -https://imgur.com/R7L2ekg
    (sorry to pick on your post specifically, there are a bunch like it but its the most recent)

    I don't get what your answer is here.  Are you saying that you don't see a problem with the way the card is designed?  Or are you saying that the design of the card is only ok because of how bad the rest of the game is?

    I really don't see how the horrendous state of the app from a stability standpoint has anything to do with the overall balance of the cards in the game.  Maybe I'm missing some link?
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    No
    starfall said:
    When BSZ finally rotates out of Standard, it's going to be really interesting to find out if I have any sympathy for the people who can't play the game without it, isn't it?

    That's if I'm still playing, of course. Which doesn't look likely at the moment.
    Just like cycling! 🙌
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    No
    Mburn7 said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Do we really need - another- thread griping about this card? 
    Until the devs finally manage to at least show a reaction.. Yep. And even if it doesn't lead to a nerf, it might make them more careful in the future
    You mean gripe and gripe until you get your way? I'd thought that beneath you. . 
    That's a little mean, don't you think?  A clearly broken card was introduced into the game, and all he's trying to do is get the dev team to acknowledge something about it (either that they don't think its broken or that they will rein it in a little bit).  Its not like its some unreasonable request or something.
    True, but i'm getting a bit fed up with this behavior of going on and on and on and on untill that person gets what he wants. It's (to me) not about the actual contents of the request , it's about trying to just bluntforce the devs into submission. (and flooding the forum with it)

    Keep in mind though that the devs have a horrible track record when it comes to adjusting cards, they go from OP to trash usually. so be careful what you wish for

    Brakkis said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    andrewvanmarle said:
    Do we really need - another- thread griping about this card? 
    Until the devs finally manage to at least show a reaction.. Yep. And even if it doesn't lead to a nerf, it might make them more careful in the future
    You mean gripe and gripe until you get your way? I'd thought that beneath you. . 

    Better than sitting around saying nothing about a very obviously broken card that needs to be altered to reduce it's power and it's skew on the color pie. If nothing is said now about this card, even if it's not changed, it will lead to them adding additional cards with newer sets that are just as broken, if not worse.

    It's called speaking up for change and shoving your head in the sand; or worse, defending the prevention of change, is infinitely worse in this regard.
    Yeah and it's allready been said, enough times. So no need for new threads, new polls etc.
  • Aeroplane
    Aeroplane Posts: 314 Mover and Shaker
    No
    Nice results.. Looks like we can stop kicking at this dead horse. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes
    Dkrone said:
    I want to know how many of you that said yes actually have the card. Do you find yourself saying “this card is making my deck too good, I sure wish it was weaker.” Or are you just whining because you don’t have it? Save your pinks or just wait a few months and it’ll be out of standard.

    I think the rest of us who took the time to save and get it would feel gypped if they nerfed it now, I would anyway.
    I have the card, and absolutely think it should be weaker.  Obviously I'm happy to use and abuse it, but for the health of the game it definitely should be dialed back slightly.  Not nerfed into the ground, but it should not be giving 12 mana to each of the drawn cards, not with cards like Stitch (costs 10), Expansion (costs 11), Storm the Vault (costs 11), Thunderherd Migration (costs 10) and others in the 9-11 cost range allowing for some extreme loops.

    In paper MTG cards are designed for how they interact with other cards in Standard (and, to a lesser extent, other formats).  Clearly Oktagon does not work like this, because otherwise BSZ would never have been made.

    If the nerf is done right than nobody will feel gypped (see: Undergrowth Champion, Skysnare Spider, Avaricious Dragon, Season's Past, Harness the Storm, Kiora, and others) but the game will be a lot healthier because a super broken card is no longer able to dominate.  
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  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    Yes
    A card doesn’t have to win you every game to be overpowered.  The fact that it gets stuffed into virtually every blue deck is proof enough.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    Yes
    Dkrone said:
    I just don’t get it.

    Allow me to explain;

    It's not about how the AI uses it. It's not about how often you face it when playing against an opponent. It has nothing to do with how that poor derp Greg doesn't utilize the card efficiently.

    It's about how every player who has it uses it. How every player who doesn't have it is after it because it defines the meta that much. It's about how it warps every deck people with it are working to create. Because if you have BSZ and you don't run BSZ than you are handicapping yourself in coalition events against players who do have it, who are abusing it, and are greatly increasing their chances of winning solely because of it. It's a single card that the entire meta is revolving around, in both standard and legacy.

    Stop trying to determine a cards worth and value by how a poorly coded AI uses it.
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    Yes
    Dkrone said:
    I want to know how many of you that said yes actually have the card. Do you find yourself saying “this card is making my deck too good, I sure wish it was weaker.” Or are you just whining because you don’t have it?
    I've called for several cards to be nerfed. I even paid for three of them.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes
    Dkrone said:
    I want to know how many of you that said yes actually have the card. Do you find yourself saying “this card is making my deck too good, I sure wish it was weaker.” Or are you just whining because you don’t have it? Save your pinks or just wait a few months and it’ll be out of standard.

    I think the rest of us who took the time to save and get it would feel gypped if they nerfed it now, I would anyway.
    Most players who voted yes who I recognize do have the card, including me. And I use it, a lot. The card is a no brainer to include.. But I have way more fun with deck building when the restrictions prevent me and all others from using it.
  • Dkrone
    Dkrone Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Dkrone said:
    I want to know how many of you that said yes actually have the card. Do you find yourself saying “this card is making my deck too good, I sure wish it was weaker.” Or are you just whining because you don’t have it? Save your pinks or just wait a few months and it’ll be out of standard.

    I think the rest of us who took the time to save and get it would feel gypped if they nerfed it now, I would anyway.
    Most players who voted yes who I recognize do have the card, including me. And I use it, a lot. The card is a no brainer to include.. But I have way more fun with deck building when the restrictions prevent me and all others from using it.
    “I don’t like using it so no one should be able to”? Come on, you can build winning decks without it. All of this talk about how it hurts the game and everyone uses it is junk. All I hear is “I’m losing games waaah”, so what. Don’t act like you guys are all about the purity of the game, you want to win every game and it bothers you when you don’t. 

    The real issue that needs to be addressed is the crashes. That does actually impact everyone. 
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    Yes
    Dkrone said:
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Dkrone said:
    I want to know how many of you that said yes actually have the card. Do you find yourself saying “this card is making my deck too good, I sure wish it was weaker.” Or are you just whining because you don’t have it? Save your pinks or just wait a few months and it’ll be out of standard.

    I think the rest of us who took the time to save and get it would feel gypped if they nerfed it now, I would anyway.
    Most players who voted yes who I recognize do have the card, including me. And I use it, a lot. The card is a no brainer to include.. But I have way more fun with deck building when the restrictions prevent me and all others from using it.
    “I don’t like using it so no one should be able to”? Come on, you can build winning decks without it. All of this talk about how it hurts the game and everyone uses it is junk. All I hear is “I’m losing games waaah”, so what. Don’t act like you guys are all about the purity of the game, you want to win every game and it bothers you when you don’t. 

    The real issue that needs to be addressed is the crashes. That does actually impact everyone. 
    I’m pretty sure nobody is saying “waaah! I hate losing to this card!”  The AI mostly plays it very poorly.  And most of the yes votes are from top players in top coalitions.

    But no card should be so good as to be a must include in any blue deck.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    No
    Why not nerf lags and freezes instead? What about the screw ups Octagon has made to the game

    I'm sorry but card balance is the least of my worries.
    This is a nice poll as it gives an idea on where community stands on bsz. As expected myself, there is not absolute majority.

    Arguments from people who voted yes can be translated as "This is how MTGpg ought to be played" and to me this ain't right. 
    The game has 2000+ cards and if you think bsz to too easy or no brainer, use something else. We all have some will power. 

    People who voted no have one or many among the following reasons:
    -Easiness to blast through the grind
    -Good way to master cards fast ala HUF/Deploy
    -Perceived fast games
    -Not OP
    - Fun factor
    -Love
    or other interactions

    There is no evidence that bsz offers competitive advantage to either Greg or the user for that matter. it doesn't even offer competitive advantage in events unlike Cycling which guarantied secondaries.

    Regardless of the arguments being presented, it is not appropriate to dictate how people are to play their games or nerf that because "this card is too easy for you". 

    Come to think it,  all my loses from totps this week were not  from bsz but prism array, unwalden hydra, rishkar and GR.

    In before mirror and killer instinct join the need to nerf list. It's just a matter of time since the set is relatively new. I'm not saying they OP, but scarier than bsz. 

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  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
    edited April 2019
    No
    There some interesting data I found about people who voted YES and NO despite the vote being 50/50.

    People who voted YES have:
    Total Points: 14603
    Total posts: 13921
    Total Badges: 267

    People that voted NO have"
    Total points: 3348
    Total posts: 4138
    Total Badges: 176

    This is interesting, people that voted NO have the least stats by a large margin.
    This is beautiful. If I had time, I could add date joined, number of likes and insights, number of visits to get some charts. 
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