3.3 Release Notes *Updated (4/3/19)

Kinesia

For those above mentioning that +1/+1 isn't much... That's true but the paper Simic cards talk a LOT about "Creatures with +1/+1" on them which would probably wind up here saying "Buffed creatures get..." So it's less about the size boost and more about giving it the flag "buffed" probably.

Brigby

Apologies for the confusion, but I was just informed by our QA team that the timer was recently changed to 18 seconds. I have updated this in the post to reflect this change.

Thuran

.....

We are already angry, and now you say its EVEN WORSE?!

If this change goes live, my answer is clear:

NOT. ANOTHER. DIME


PS: this game has a Q&A team????

Laeuftbeidir

I'll keep quiet about the timer thingy until I've seen it being implemented. But @starfall has an interesting point - this game seems to be steering away from the competitive play and overly focuses on casual play. Which is content that should be relevant, but so is competition.

TheDude1

@Brigby To be 100% certain, can we get confirmation on what elements of Card Visualization stops the timer?  Does that count just viewing cards in hand (in which case how is that different from Hand Management)?  Does it only include the effects that are bypassed when turning off Card Visual Aid?  Or does it include any effects of whatever cards are being played, such as the previously mentioned Path of Discovery buff, etc.?

If it's not the last item above, can something please be done to speed the implementation of Path and other cards/effects that seem to have missed the Card Visual Aid patch?

Brigby

Laeuftbeidir said:

I'll keep quiet about the timer thingy until I've seen it being implemented. But @starfall has an interesting point - this game seems to be steering away from the competitive play and overly focuses on casual play. Which is content that should be relevant, but so is competition.

They certainly do bring up an interesting point, and for me it also conjures up the question of how players define skillful play, which inspired me to start a new thread to discuss that: How Do You Define Skillful Play?

And then after taking that thread into consideration, how does the implementation of a loop prevention system potentially lower the necessary skill level a player needs to be successful in the game?

Gilesclone

If I only have 25 seconds for my turn I’m done with this game.

Brigby

TheDude1 said:

Brigby To be 100% certain, can we get confirmation on what elements of Card Visualization stops the timer?  Does that count just viewing cards in hand (in which case how is that different from Hand Management)?  Does it only include the effects that are bypassed when turning off Card Visual Aid?  Or does it include any effects of whatever cards are being played, such as the previously mentioned Path of Discovery buff, etc.?

If it's not the last item above, can something please be done to speed the implementation of Path and other cards/effects that seem to have missed the Card Visual Aid patch?

That's a good question! I'll have to double check with the team once they're back in office. I'll update this post once I hear back from them.

Mark_Tedin

What is happening? first, they removed our XP and rewards with the "curve".

Now they end up with our combo decks. How will we face 500 HP bosses (bolas, azor...)? 

It seems the veterans are no longer welcome here.

TheDude1

Kinesia said:

For those above mentioning that +1/+1 isn't much... That's true but the paper Simic cards talk a LOT about "Creatures with +1/+1" on them which would probably wind up here saying "Buffed creatures get..." So it's less about the size boost and more about giving it the flag "buffed" probably.

To back up Kinesia, there is a small logo in the animation that shows how many +1/+1 buffs are applied.  The Simic cards in paper do a lot with respect to not just the raw value but the count of the +1/+1 buffs, with benefits that can grow almost exponentially.  I'd expect we'll see at least some card mechanics that similarly piggyback.

Speaking of the new mechanics, love the implementation of Addendum here - keeps the flavor of paper but is specific to MtGPQ's setup.  Especially great considering no one here really had any idea of how it could work.  Also love that Riot stayed the same with a true choice mechanic.  I'll hold my thoughts on how "good" they all are until I see the new cards in action, especially for Spectacle and Afterlife since they're so straightforward.

Dsfargeg

There are some really good changes here. Like others, I'm concerned about a lot of the details of the loop timer though. Is it purely based on clock time? I have a really slow phone, which could give me an advantage against loopy opponents, but prevent me from using such decks effectively. Or, if I think I'll be facing loopy decks, I could use Tezzeret the Schemer and slow things down by filling the board with energy and supports.

Thuran

Gilesclone said:

If I only have 25 seconds for my turn I’m done with this game.

Its OK, it will be 18 seconds, as @brigby clarified  

nerdstrap

The timer is a major dealbreaker. I have pointed out before that infinite loops are a part of Magic, and a good thing. What we wanted was a way to forfeit during an opponents loop or a break in our own loop when it was lethal. With the horrible design work, and continuing disconnect, I fear the game has reached its end. As someone who has bought every exclusive, and many many gems packs, I can't foresee me spending any more money... I have gems saved up, but too many things have gone wrong...

ZW2007-

I'd like to chime back in again and share two long posts that I have made in the past:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/857120/#Comment_857120
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/866650/#Comment_866650

Feel free to ignore these. I also made a brief video showing how much my go to speed deck can achieve in 18 secs. Forgive me for sounding like an idiot, that's just me. Also forgive the somewhat sloppy play, I'm tired, annoyed, and was holding a tiny human.

https://youtu.be/f-0Ue4Xv80o

Aeroplane

18 second rule - another unnecessary application.You can quit if the AI gets into a loop and they win . If you get into a loop, you quit and lose or wait it out. What's the problem? There should be more "Puzzles" to overcome with our cards. Lack of content is the problem. How many people found RT a chore in the final month?

madwren

Aside from the debate about combo decks being part of the game--which they absolutely are--this seems like another example of Oktagon overreach.

Remember when we said, "Hey guys, could you just dial down the token animations and loyalty streams?" and they went far, far beyond what we asked for--and even then, not solve the issue?

Well, we said "infinite loops shouldn't be in the game".  You could design cards more sensibly, and not create things like RIshkar's Expertise or Blue Sun's Zenith; you could simply proactively nerf cards creating an infinite loop, for the sake of the gaming environment as a whole.  However, it is rather drastic to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater and diminish our ability to build and play synergistic combo decks. 

I mean, I'm biased. The first time we have to face some 400-hp overpowered monstrosity in PVE and I can't Beacon Bolt loop it to death, I'm probably going to scream. But..18 seconds?

There are very serious ramifications. I mean, someone already timed gameplay above. There's no way we're fitting much into 18 seconds unless there are lot more pauses and timer extensions than we're understanding. Perhaps there should be a video showing gameplay examples under the new system?

Because man, this might be it for a lot of us.

Scifibot

I've been playing the game for a very long time by gaming standards.  2 and a half years of my life.  I am not one of those people who like to hang around here and complain about minor stuff and get my panties in a bunch over nothing.  I have spent between 12 and 14 thousand dollars on this game I love it and support it as best I can BECAUSE I can and honestly with all these free to play games there are usually a lot of players being cheap and frowning on how whales decide to pend their money.  I'm not like that I like to share.  There are a few others like me in Extinction and we like being the way we are.

Then I hear that you guys are working on fixing infinite loops and well yes a few times while I have been playing 4-6 hours a day in the last 850 days or so I have come across Greg playing an infinite loop and well that's a shame I just go and reset and yeah well that does happen when you have 2300 cards interacting in different ways with each other I get it and I move on.  I think to myself what would they do to fix such minor problem and why would they waste their time on something that really isn't that much of a concern for ME who represent the people who actually care to support it with my life and with my hard earned money?

THEN I HEAR ABOUT THIS GAME BREAKING **** FIX THAT WILL RUIN EVERY THING THAT I HAVE BUILT, THIS EMPIRE OF DIRT!  THE ENJOYMENT  GET FROM PLAYING THE WAY  ALWAYS HAVE?

I have bought every exclusive and every walker in the game and I liked doing it.  Do you really think that it is wise to completely screw me over?  

Implement something that completely changes the game like this and you WILL lose us.

Matthew

ZW2007- said:

Brigby said:

Elspeth_Tirel said:

Just so I understand correctly: will the 25-second timer affect (for example) Imminent Doom decks? If I'm chaining spells, it sounds like the timer will just cut off my chain after 25 seconds. If so, I'm not sure that's the best solution to the problem.

ZW2007- said:

Not even the slightest bit surprised that this was implemented so poorly. I think this might be the bad game decision that finally seals the deal for me.

Would you two mind providing some further detail as to why exactly you believe this may not be a good solution to the problem? Thank you!

Stormcrow said:

Not to put words in their mouths, but 25 seconds isn't very long, there are plenty of legitimate non-infinite-loop interactions that take more than 25 seconds. Pretty much anything that summons a bunch of tokens, for instance.

Stormcrow hit the nail on the head. Have you ever tried casting Behold the Beyond? It has to discard the cards in your hand, draw 6, then fill 6 with mana. Day's Undoing? Same thing but it also has to empty the opponent's hand and draw 5 cards for them too. If the match-5 rider doesn't count for things like Stitch in Time, then all those cards will be rendered completely useless too.

@Brigby

I came here to say basically all of this myself. The way animations currently are, this is going to become overly burdensome very quickly. In fact, I'd say it's already to that point if this is indeed the fix they settle on as final.

I would offer a few points that I sincerely hope you take back to the dev team in response to this.

First, I would suggest that they look at other methods of trying to do this if they are dead-set on making it happen. My top three alternatives would be to apply the timer only to Greg (this would give people a way to avoid getting stuck in buggy and truly infinite loops that literally can't be broken, like with Murder Investigation and Divine Visitation); to do what @Gabrosin mentioned by adding an action counter that limits the number of extra swaps per turn, or cards cast, or something along those lines; or to implement something like what @ZW2007- mentioned in this older post of his (TL;DR: If "action X" occurs Y number of times without damage to opponent, stop loop).

My second point that I want to mention is that changes like this are not the kind of thing you should just dump onto the player base. It's bound to be a contentious issue, so why not have an open dialogue with us? Why not solicit our input? We are passionate about the game, so you're bound to get plenty of ideas, and undoubtedly at least a few of them will be new to you.

I also agree with @Brakkis and @Laeuftbeidir that the lack of a team event is thoroughly depressing. The only thing that has kept me involved in this game through the absolute worst periods of its existence has been my team. Teammates and team events are incredibly enjoyable. They bring everyone together to solve a common problem. I really hope the dev team has a new (read: NOT REHASHED, RECYCLED, OR RE-SKINNED) event for us soon. This is getting really old.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, on to what I think are some positive changes.

Apex of Power finally has a confirmation button, HUZZAH!!! It's about time. Thank you for this.

The new guild mechanics look interesting, but I'm going to reserve my judgment on them until I can actually try them out. Three of them (Adapt, Afterlife, and Riot) look like they're going to be supremely underwhelming. Again, I'm willing to wait and see. More to come on that, hopefully good stuff.

Regarding the Exile stack, I am SO thrilled to see this. Wonderful news, and long overdue.

I would like to make a judgment on the three Planeswalkers you've revealed, but quite frankly it's very difficult to tell just what exactly they do with their abilities because of how you've chosen to present them to us. It would be much better if you just typed up each level of the abilities as it appears in-game. As they are right now, it's hard to piece them together accurately or in a way that makes sense.

I guess to finish this up, I want to talk about the loop thing again. In the time it's taken me to write this, I've found out that it's gone down from 25 seconds to 18??? You guys. Come on. This is going to absolutely destroy the play style for so many people. It's a completely arbitrary stance anchored deeply in ignorance of how the game is actually played, and the dynamic that actual players experience while they're playing the game. This move will completely mothball and render irrelevant one of a very short list of play styles that exist in this game. I sincerely hope you reconsider.

Brigby

Hi Everyone. Thanks for providing all of this in-depth perspective and feedback of the loop system. I'll be sure to pass that along to the team for review.

While I can't guarantee that any changes can be made prior to the 3.3 update going live, as I believe the build has already been submitted to 1st party vendors, I will definitely talk to them about revisiting the system and seeing where things can be adjusted.