Please nerf 5* Thor

entrailbucket

Tiggida said:

entrailbucket said:

Tiggida said:

entrailbucket said:

In what part of my post do I call for nerfs to every character?  Now that Gambit isn't the best any more, Thor is going to be in every single team every time, because players are exploiting a mechanic in his passive.  Fixing that exploit (via a fairly gentle correction that I suggested) brings him back in line.

I’m actually seeing lots of variety in pvp now. Thor is definitely not on every team. Probably not even 50% of the teams I’ve seen so far personally.

Give it some time to settle.  Eventually players will decide on Thor's "best" partner and then only run those two.

So what you’re saying is that all the top players that were complaining for months that they could only use Gambit will only use Thor now? So when they nerf Thor should they nerf Oko and JJ next since theyll be in “every match every single time”?

Do those characters passively generate AP/boardshake every turn with no downside, as long as you hurt them on purpose?  The one other 5* passive AP generator got fixed recently...

Daiches

Tiggida said:

entrailbucket said:

Tiggida said:

entrailbucket said:

In what part of my post do I call for nerfs to every character?  Now that Gambit isn't the best any more, Thor is going to be in every single team every time, because players are exploiting a mechanic in his passive.  Fixing that exploit (via a fairly gentle correction that I suggested) brings him back in line.

I’m actually seeing lots of variety in pvp now. Thor is definitely not on every team. Probably not even 50% of the teams I’ve seen so far personally.

Give it some time to settle.  Eventually players will decide on Thor's "best" partner and then only run those two.

So what you’re saying is that all the top players that were complaining for months that they could only use Gambit will only use Thor now? So when they nerf Thor should they nerf Oko and JJ next since theyll be in “every match every single time”?

That's the only thing nerfs bring. A shift to a next clear best.
It's a stopgap solution, and a sign of developmental weakness. Not design, development. The crafting of a metagame. I know there used to be developers that worked at Wizards of the Coast previously, but I think they are long gone, and with them the strong design and development philosophy. They would benefit heavily from a Future Future League and actual testers., taking a page from WotC that means recruiting Hall of Famers and notorious deckbuilders. People that know the game competitively inside and out. 

Anon

Devs, whatever you do, please don't listen to this guy.

Borstock

The fact that the OP cheers that they changed a character to the point that people would opt to SELL IT COMPLETELY feels like all of this is coming from a very bad place. The natural extension of this argument is that the most powerful character should be obliterated every couple of seasons and I hate that idea/mindset.

fmftint

The best strategy for dealing with Thor isn't  bring your own Thor,  until that is the case,  he's fine

entrailbucket

Anon said:

Devs, whatever you do, please don't listen to this guy.

Hate to break it to you, but I started a 20-something-page "Nerf Gambit" thread back in November and that one worked out ok for me.

I think it's funny that everyone's response is "no more nerfs" and no one has actually addressed how much fun it is to lose a bunch of fights on purpose every time you have to heal a character.

Felonius

Nerf Thor?  No thanks.  He's fine as is.  Powerful (possible) offense, lousy Defense.  

I've a better idea.  Let's stop nerfing characters and instead balance-up/improve other bad characters.

entrailbucket

Felonius said:

Nerf Thor?  No thanks.  He's fine as is.  Powerful (possible) offense, lousy Defense. 

I've a better idea.  Let's stop nerfing characters and instead balance-up/improve other bad characters.

So fixing Thor by removing players' need to lose fights on purpose would kill him, such that he'd be completely useless?

Anon

entrailbucket said:

Anon said:

Devs, whatever you do, please don't listen to this guy.

Hate to break it to you, but I started a 20-something-page "Nerf Gambit" thread back in November and that one worked out ok for me.

I think it's funny that everyone's response is "no more nerfs" and no one has actually addressed how much fun it is to lose a bunch of fights on purpose every time you have to heal a character.

Everyone knew Gambit was going to get nerfed almost immediately after he came out. Starting a thread acknowledging it doesn't mean anything because it was going to happen anyway.

Thats your argument? That its not fun to lose fights?

Sim Mayor

fmftint said:

The best strategy for dealing with Thor isn't  bring your own Thor,  until that is the case,  he's fine

This.

Then again, if Thor were to be nerfed (and I must state with no qualifications that I'm not saying he needs it), why not just say he can only destroy tiles that he does the most damage in? That gets rid of the deliberately weak builds, and makes him tank like the character actually would. That in turn keeps him up front taking damage for a good chunk of the fight, which means people have to heal him more often. Easy nerf.

JHawkInc

entrailbucket said:

Felonius said:

Nerf Thor?  No thanks.  He's fine as is.  Powerful (possible) offense, lousy Defense. 

I've a better idea.  Let's stop nerfing characters and instead balance-up/improve other bad characters.

So fixing Thor by removing players' need to lose fights on purpose would kill him, such that he'd be completely useless?

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Thor is good, but not broken. Gambit was broken. 

It doesn't matter whether or not removing the need to lose fights would kill him or not, because it's not a change that needs to happen int he first place.

entrailbucket

Anon said:

entrailbucket said:

Anon said:

Devs, whatever you do, please don't listen to this guy.

Hate to break it to you, but I started a 20-something-page "Nerf Gambit" thread back in November and that one worked out ok for me.

I think it's funny that everyone's response is "no more nerfs" and no one has actually addressed how much fun it is to lose a bunch of fights on purpose every time you have to heal a character.

Everyone knew Gambit was going to get nerfed almost immediately after he came out. Starting a thread acknowledging it doesn't mean anything because it was going to happen anyway.

Thats your argument? That its not fun to lose fights?

Revisionist history.  In November the vast majority of players were posting similar stuff to what's going on here.  If they knew he was going to be nerfed they sure didn't say it then.

Is your argument that it's fun to lose fights on purpose?

entrailbucket

Sim Mayor said:

fmftint said:

The best strategy for dealing with Thor isn't  bring your own Thor,  until that is the case,  he's fine

This.

Then again, if Thor were to be nerfed (and I must state with no qualifications that I'm not saying he needs it), why not just say he can only destroy tiles that he does the most damage in? That gets rid of the deliberately weak builds, and makes him tank like the character actually would. That in turn keeps him up front taking damage for a good chunk of the fight, which means people have to heal him more often. Easy nerf.

That sounds like something in the vein of what I suggested in the OP.  How is that killing him?  It prevents players from using an exploit.

justsing

There will always be a character that someone thinks is too good and should be nerfed. I tend to think it’s okay for characters to be somewhat overpowered as long as they’re easily beatable on defense. Thor fits that; pre-nerf Gambit didn’t.

Colognoisseur

One thing which has been clear throughout the history of MPQ is Demiurge has no idea to what lengths players will go for an advantage. I’m not going to list all of them but they are constantly surprised.

Thor is one of these. They had no idea people would retreat down to 50% health. I’m sure if it came up they decided it was too clunky for players to do it. When they designed him the thought was for him to be a tank. A gladiator out front. Then just when you think you’ve got him board shake and ap gain gives him a second wind.

They got a clue with DD that players would do it but it was too late Thor was already designed.

My belief is if they were for the kind of self-damage that is necessary to make Thor as good they would have already produced a half-life healthpack.

This is not what was intended and Demiurge has shown time and again they will correct it.

thedarkphoenix

Thor is fine

No other character in this game needs to be nerfed.

Just because you don't like it or feel it wasn't intended doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.


There are way to many characters than need to be buffed to be nerfing characters.



Also...lol this didn't take long.

entrailbucket

thedarkphoenix said:

Thor is fine

No other character in this game needs to be nerfed.

Just because you don't like it or feel it wasn't intended doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.


There are way to many characters than need to be buffed to be nerfing characters.



Also...lol this didn't take long.

Not that I'm keeping track of who anyone is, but weren't you one of the guys arguing with me back in November that Gambit definitely  did *not* need a nerf?  I'm not sure you're the nerf authority here.

Borstock

entrailbucket said:

Anon said:

Devs, whatever you do, please don't listen to this guy.

I think it's funny that everyone's response is "no more nerfs" and no one has actually addressed how much fun it is to lose a bunch of fights on purpose every time you have to heal a character.

That's not true. Just put him in front early, or team him with Thanos, or wear him down a little in PvE. It's very easy to get him to 50% without throwing matches.

rixmith

I agree that the Heal and then retreat 5 times is kind of cheesy. I had to do it today and it was annoying! 

But that doesn't mean that Thor is a problem. My suggestion? Give me a half-heal that I can use on Daredevil and Thor. Don't make me go through the machinations of retreating (or using him with 5* Thanos on low level nodes if they are still available). Just let me get him to the state where I can optimally use him. 

Note that I may feel differently now that I don't have Gambit stealing all of Thor's AP so that he can hardly ever fire off a power! Only time will tell...

thedarkphoenix

entrailbucket said:

thedarkphoenix said:

Thor is fine

No other character in this game needs to be nerfed.

Just because you don't like it or feel it wasn't intended doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.


There are way to many characters than need to be buffed to be nerfing characters.



Also...lol this didn't take long.

Not that I'm keeping track of who anyone is, but weren't you one of the guys arguing with me back in November that Gambit definitely  did *not* need a nerf?  I'm not sure you're the nerf authority here.

Gambit actually was fine before his nerf. Once he got his nerf (buff) that's when he became a real problem.