Update to 4-Star Pack Odds (6/4/18)

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Comments

  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't even know why this is a discussion. The solution is to split the 4* tier into groups, and let us decide which group we're pulling from with our CP and tokens. Two groups of ~30 would do fine for now. Or maybe make the oldest 40 the "Classics" and the newest the "Latest," until that hits 40.

    I'm hoping they have something in mind that will be announced / enacted in the coming weeks and this change was just a precursor requirement they needed to get out of the way first, but we will see.
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    If this was done with no greater context in mind, however, and the idea was just "People are getting new 4* characters covered too fast, which we have encouraged, but it's hurting our bottom line" then I think I might have to finally start hoarding, which is something I haven't done to date as I find that the small rush of pulling tokens / CP is necessary to keep me interested, and removing it reduces my engagement drastically.
  • DaSal
    DaSal Posts: 76 Match Maker
    Based on the tokens I opened yesterday compared to the ones I opened today, I much prefer the old system. Had very poor luck today.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    So now the change is live, would the non-obfuscated description of the change be:
    1. event store tokens no longer have decreased odds of pulling a 3* or 4* cover compared to heroic tokens
    2. the latest twelve 4* characters no longer have increased odds
    I guess this might be a slight increase in the number of 4* covers, but not by much.

    Without any information about this upcoming change to how unusable covers are handled that IceIX alluded to, it is hard to see this as an improvement.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just glad I pulled my 13th Jubilee last night before the change over today.
  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 290 Mover and Shaker
    So, doesn't it seem like they are making 4*'s more readily available so they can start bringing in the 6*?
  • Clamps2
    Clamps2 Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    jamesh said:
    So now the change is live, would the non-obfuscated description of the change be:
    1. event store tokens no longer have decreased odds of pulling a 3* or 4* cover compared to heroic tokens
    2. the latest twelve 4* characters no longer have increased odds
    I guess this might be a slight increase in the number of 4* covers, but not by much.

    Without any information about this upcoming change to how unusable covers are handled that IceIX alluded to, it is hard to see this as an improvement.
    Pretty much this.  And that "slight increase" is barely going to be noticeable even over time.  Ones of covers!  I can't imagine that event store tokens make up much of any player's 4* haul...

    This is going to make the game even harder for new players to catch up.
    And as for vets, new characters will never catch up to older character's levels, short of maybe BHs for a very few select ones.

    If it's really a problem (and no one seemed to be saying it was), couldn't they gradually adjust it less drastically so that Latests are now 33%, or 25% instead of 50% or something, rather than yet another knee-jerk reaction?

    I don't get it.
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    mega ghost said:
    I don't even know why this is a discussion. The solution is to split the 4* tier into groups, and let us decide which group we're pulling from with our CP and tokens. Two groups of ~30 would do fine for now. Or maybe make the oldest 40 the "Classics" and the newest the "Latest," until that hits 40.

    I'm hoping they have something in mind that will be announced / enacted in the coming weeks and this change was just a precursor requirement they needed to get out of the way first, but we will see.
    RNG rules with an iron fist around here (sorry Danny). Methods of getting exactly the covers that you want or need tend to be prohibitively expensive for players who don't spend money often. Heroes for Hire presents a limited selection and prices start from 3600 HP; I can earn this from day-to-day play but not often, and there's no guarantee that when I do have that much HP saved up, the covers in the HFH store will be what I need. 120 CP for a single cover is more achievable but the feeling that you're throwing away five 4- or 5-star covers is hard to shake.

    My point, in case it got lost in my last paragraph, is that the dev team are very averse to making it easier for players to get what they want. The uncertainty of random token pulls is practically the bedrock of this game's monetization and I don't see it easing up any time soon. The idea of a Classic/Latest store for 4-stars was constantly posted during the few months last year when vaulting was active; on the face of it, from the players' point of view it seemed like the perfect solution, just common sense. From a monetization point of view, though, it amounts to "giving players what they want", which is bad.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    heybub said:
    So, doesn't it seem like they are making 4*'s more readily available so they can start bringing in the 6*?
    IMO that's the only way I can see this as remotely positive.  We'll see...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,933 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    The PVE vaults will apparently continue with the same number of offered 4’s.   This is based on comparing the new Hunt vault to the SpiderMan and Friends vault, as well as past offerings.  Not that that was mentioned, but I had been curious.

    So to be clear, the increase in 4’s from Story Events will only apply to a new 4* release and the initial store with tokens, since all other Story events have a vault attached. 

    Note that pulls from the new release stores cost more than from the vaults.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament
    Vintage 4-Star odds increased by approximately 200%
    Overall 4-Star odds increased by approximately 25%

    In the current Deadpool PvP, the odds for 4* is still ~1:14. I suppose a 25% increase would show the odds as ~1:11. There isn't any ~x2 odds for Vintage 4*. Am I interpreting it incorrectly or will this take effect beginning from C&D PvP?

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,933 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament
    Vintage 4-Star odds increased by approximately 200%
    Overall 4-Star odds increased by approximately 25%

    In the current Deadpool PvP, the odds for 4* is still ~1:14. I suppose a 25% increase would show the odds as ~1:11. There isn't any ~x2 odds for Vintage 4*. Am I interpreting it incorrectly or will this take effect beginning from C&D PvP?

    The DP store debuted prior to the change and per IceIX on Discord isn’t being updated.  It starts with C&D’s store.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks for the confirmation. 
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2018
    Wait a minute.  Story events use vaults - which have no increase.  And release events use the new "... and Friends" vaults - which have no increase.  So why even advertise that?  Am I missing something?  Seems like only the non-release PvP events have a 25% increase - like 10 per season?

    So how many PvP event tokens do players get?  Most serious players I think get the 3rd token from progression, most ARE NOT in a T25 alliance, but assume you are T10 even - that's 6 tokens per event.  No one is buying these things even with the daily discount of 200 hp a pop.  So under the old 1:14 odds a T25 or better players gets a 4* about once a week, a more "casual" player (who still hits 900 every event) is getting about 2 per season.... 25 per year.  A 25% increase is 7 additional 4* covers per year.  That's the sell - that's why D3 thinks this is a positive change.  So let's all welcome massive dilution with open arms and be grateful for our 7 additional covers per year!


  • Shintok17
    Shintok17 Posts: 620 Critical Contributor
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    Wait a minute.  Story events use vaults - which have no increase.  And release events use the new "... and Friends" vaults - which have no increase.  So why even advertise that?  Am I missing something?


    Your mistaken. The initial release event for a 4* uses a store. Which is super diluted by the 2* to 4* tiers being in it. That is when the new character is available only in PVE placement, Shield Training, and the Release Store. The next PVE Story event is when the new character is added to the placement rewards and they have the "... and Friends" vault and tokens are given in the new characters PVP for that vault.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    Wait a minute.  Story events use vaults - which have no increase.  And release events use the new "... and Friends" vaults - which have no increase.  So why even advertise that?  Am I missing something? 
    I believe the And Friends vaults don't kick in until the new character (in the case of 4*s, at least) is Essential. The release itself still uses tokens.

    Or, at the very least, we had Sinister Six tokens for the Iron Spider release prior to the Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends vault. Can't speak for certain about previous releases because I don't really pay that close attention to tokens/vaults like that, but that's how it was this past time.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament
    Vintage 4-Star odds increased by approximately 200%
    Overall 4-Star odds increased by approximately 25%

    In the current Deadpool PvP, the odds for 4* is still ~1:14. I suppose a 25% increase would show the odds as ~1:11. There isn't any ~x2 odds for Vintage 4*. Am I interpreting it incorrectly or will this take effect beginning from C&D PvP?

    Those are the improved odds.  Tournament and event tokens used to have ~ 1:17 odds of pulling a 4* cover.  They were both more expensive and less valuable than heroic tokens.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,933 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    jamesh said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament
    Vintage 4-Star odds increased by approximately 200%
    Overall 4-Star odds increased by approximately 25%

    In the current Deadpool PvP, the odds for 4* is still ~1:14. I suppose a 25% increase would show the odds as ~1:11. There isn't any ~x2 odds for Vintage 4*. Am I interpreting it incorrectly or will this take effect beginning from C&D PvP?

    Those are the improved odds.  Tournament and event tokens used to have ~ 1:17 odds of pulling a 4* cover.  They were both more expensive and less valuable than heroic tokens.
    Huh, you’re right. The store had 1:21 odds for a 4 when it opened, so now it lines up for 4 odds with the Heroic tokens.  They are still more expensive, but you will a few less 2’s from them than before.
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Thanks, so every two weeks we get one store with a 25% boost in tokens.  Most are going to get 1 token from the event and then 1 per day from subs, so at 1:11 that's one cover every other 4* release event.  So 5 tokens/event x 17 events/year at 1:11 vs. 1:14 is 7.6 covers/year over the previous 6.1 covers/year.  Hooray! 
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    IceIX said:

    Wait! What about new 4-Stars! This means they’re going to be harder to get!

    Sort of. By putting the Latest 12 into the general 4-Star bunch, this cuts down on their relative odds. However, since we’ll be able to run 4-Star Versus runs more often and Stores tend to be more focused than Vaults, the change isn’t as large as it looks at the outset. Plus, the overall odds of 4-Star rarities are going up pretty much everywhere, so you’ll be pulling more in aggregate.



    So basically this is a lie.  Will I get banned if I report it for abuse?

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