Update to 4-Star Pack Odds (6/4/18)

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Comments

  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    I find this all very confusing. What I take from it is.......

    No change to standard tokens and no change to Heroic tokens. 
    Legendary Tokens have basically just had the latest odds removed. 
    Versus stores have had 4* odds raised. 
    Story stores (which are very rare) and Story vaults have had their 4* odds raised. In terms of the vaults, dont they only ever have one 4* cover in them? So you've had your odds raised of drawing that one cover?

    Not exactly exciting if how I'm seeing it is how its going to be. 
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nick441234 said:
    I find this all very confusing. What I take from it is.......

    No change to standard tokens and no change to Heroic tokens. 
    Legendary Tokens have basically just had the latest odds removed. 
    Versus stores have had 4* odds raised. 
    Story stores (which are very rare) and Story vaults have had their 4* odds raised. In terms of the vaults, dont they only ever have one 4* cover in them? So you've had your odds raised of drawing that one cover?

    Not exactly exciting if how I'm seeing it is how its going to be. 

    Vaults usually have Three fourstar covers (one for the featured character, two random) and a Legendary token.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster said:
    Nick441234 said:
    I find this all very confusing. What I take from it is.......

    No change to standard tokens and no change to Heroic tokens. 
    Legendary Tokens have basically just had the latest odds removed. 
    Versus stores have had 4* odds raised. 
    Story stores (which are very rare) and Story vaults have had their 4* odds raised. In terms of the vaults, dont they only ever have one 4* cover in them? So you've had your odds raised of drawing that one cover?

    Not exactly exciting if how I'm seeing it is how its going to be. 

    Vaults usually have Three fourstar covers (one for the featured character, two random) and a Legendary token.
    OK. So that is still just raised odds of getting those 3 4* covers. Its still only 3 4* covers out of all the 4*s in the game. Its not that positive really. 
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nick441234 said:
    Quebbster said:
    Nick441234 said:
    I find this all very confusing. What I take from it is.......

    No change to standard tokens and no change to Heroic tokens. 
    Legendary Tokens have basically just had the latest odds removed. 
    Versus stores have had 4* odds raised. 
    Story stores (which are very rare) and Story vaults have had their 4* odds raised. In terms of the vaults, dont they only ever have one 4* cover in them? So you've had your odds raised of drawing that one cover?

    Not exactly exciting if how I'm seeing it is how its going to be. 

    Vaults usually have Three fourstar covers (one for the featured character, two random) and a Legendary token.
    OK. So that is still just raised odds of getting those 3 4* covers. Its still only 3 4* covers out of all the 4*s in the game. Its not that positive really. 

    I don't see anything mentioned about vaults here, just stores. It remains to be seen if vaults are affected at all unless I am missing something blindingly obvious (which is entirely possible).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The key points are:

    1) There would be more 4-stars PvP. I think this is something many of you requested for.

    2) They are looking to solve wasted covers issue. 

    3) Latest and Vintage will merge. This is both positive and negative depending on where you are in the game. In return, featured 4* will get 10 to 20x increased odds in Heroic Tokens. It's like back to the good old days. 
  • Merrick
    Merrick Posts: 198 Tile Toppler
    T_REZ5000 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    whitecat31 said:
    So what you are saying is we are going from a 7.14 percent change to get a 4 star from a heroic pack. ~1:14  to a 8.925  percent chance to get a 4 star from heroic which you most likely show as a ~ 1:11 chance?   Does that sound about right?
    Nope. Still a 7.14% chance. They did not touch the token odds in Heroics. Just brought back dilution. Re-read the OP. 
    Correct.  

    A quick read read through most of the replies in this thread shows just how effective presenting data in a roundabout way truly is.

    People actually believe they are going to be inundated in 4* covers when in reality the other cover stores were just brought in line with heroics.  They also made it way more difficult for a beginner to fully cover a 4*.

    The only great thing about this thread is IceIX mentioning the devs are looking into duplicate covers.  That’s the best news I’ve heard since returning to the game last October.
    I agree that the devs looking into duplicate covers is a great thing. But the best thing about his post was the use of the term “curb stomp” in an official communication. 
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,435 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    The key points are:

    2) They are looking to solve wasted covers issue. 

    We've been saying for years that the best solution to #2 is allow us to spend HP to extend the expiration of a cover.  No idea why they haven't implemented this as it would increase HP spend and keep people invested in the game.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Devs are like city council boards when it comes to the cover issue. It's been the same "we're looking into it" excuse to placate us for years now. There is no way of sunshine in that statement.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster said:
    Nick441234 said:
    Quebbster said:
    Nick441234 said:
    I find this all very confusing. What I take from it is.......

    No change to standard tokens and no change to Heroic tokens. 
    Legendary Tokens have basically just had the latest odds removed. 
    Versus stores have had 4* odds raised. 
    Story stores (which are very rare) and Story vaults have had their 4* odds raised. In terms of the vaults, dont they only ever have one 4* cover in them? So you've had your odds raised of drawing that one cover?

    Not exactly exciting if how I'm seeing it is how its going to be. 

    Vaults usually have Three fourstar covers (one for the featured character, two random) and a Legendary token.
    OK. So that is still just raised odds of getting those 3 4* covers. Its still only 3 4* covers out of all the 4*s in the game. Its not that positive really. 

    I don't see anything mentioned about vaults here, just stores. It remains to be seen if vaults are affected at all unless I am missing something blindingly obvious (which is entirely possible).
    That is true. If vaults fall into the same bracket as Heroics then it will likely be only Versus stores that we see any significant difference.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    I really don't know what to think about this change, but my initial feeling tells me it is about to get much much more difficult to get a specific 4* to champion who doesn't have a chain of feeders below them.

    There are a few "good" vintage characters I missed out on during vaulting that I'd like to get to champ (riri, bl4de, c4ge, peggy, Iceman, maybe a few others), but by and large the old 4*s are decidedly less good than the bulk of the newer ones, so I'm happy to just champ them whenever it happens. My personal roster is in a place where I can generally compete at the level i want to be competing at with the 21 4* champs I have and everyone but okoye on roster, but there are people in my alliance with 1-2 champs who are still grinding for roster spots that are really going to get burned by this. This change seems like it is going to murder 3->4* transitioners. You basically have no choice but to hoard until you can afford the roster spots for everyone now, and you'll have a tier full of useless sub-10 cover 4*s for a disproportionate amount of time.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe they could let us convert unusable 4* covers into rank 1 supports?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    justsing said:
    I like that we’ll be getting higher odds of 4*s in event tokens, but why are we going back to 4* dilution? I’ve always thought the current system with increased odds for Latest 4*s was a good balance between dealing with dilution and still allowing people to acquire all 4*s. I’ve covered plenty of Vintage 4*s under this system, and when I was in the 3*-4* transition phase, I appreciated the higher odds for Latest as that allowed me to cover and champ 4*s faster. 
    I’d love if we could get an answer to this. Could someone fill us in on the WHY, please? @IceIX, @Brigby?

    HoundofShadow said:

    3) Latest and Vintage will merge. This is both positive and negative depending on where you are in the game. In return, featured 4* will get 10 to 20x increased odds in Heroic Tokens. It's like back to the good old days. 
    Heroic Token odds will remain untouched. I will keep posting this as many times as I need to so people understand. The only thing happening to Heroic tokens is full on dilution. Nothing else. 
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX said:
    Eichen said:
    @IceIX

    Why do you have to look for more opportunities to run more 4* PvP? Why can't you just run a 4* PvP alongside the current 3*? 
    Because with the way current tech runs, that would mean a ton of people in a lot of different tiers and time shards.  Which could make things a bit... seedy for some shards. Which would then result in people trying to game the system to get "empty" shards. It's not impossible, but there's some other tech and backend work we'd have to consider to make sure that everyone gets a good experience there.


    What about if you have a 3* and 4* PVP side-by-side, once you enter one you're still in the same Shard as the other. For instance, if I choose 4* Medusa PVP S7.4 and another player chooses 3* Ironfist PVP S7.4, we're in the same Shard. The only difference will be the Essential PVP character, such as I wouldn't be able to use boosted Medusa in 3* or boosted Ironfist in 4*. There wouldn't be a Shard exploit and it would giving everyone an option.

  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    Bowgentle said:

    So you're bringing back full-on dilution in the only tokens that matter (LTs) and try to spin this as a positive thing?

    Ok.

    How could it not be perceived as a positive thing?  This is exactly what the forum has been demanding since vaulting was first introduced last March.

    We want equal access to all characters.  Now we have it.  Who cares if it takes a thousand legendary pulls to cover a new 4*?

    Let them eat cake.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    Bowgentle said:

    So you're bringing back full-on dilution in the only tokens that matter (LTs) and try to spin this as a positive thing?

    Ok.

    How could it not be perceived as a positive thing?  This is exactly what the forum has been demanding since vaulting was first introduced last March.

    We want equal access to all characters.  Now we have it.  Who cares if it takes a thousand legendary pulls to cover a new 4*?

    Let them eat cake.
    As one of the most vocal anti-vaulting advocates I completely disagree.  The solution they came with while not perfect was a very reasonable compromise for both pro and con.  Now it's been thrown out the window.  I'm not a fan.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Daredevil217 I should not have written "Heroic". It should be odds for 4* increased by 25% in some Comic Stores. For those Comic Stores with increased 4* odds, odds of getting 2* will be lowered. 
  • Shintok17
    Shintok17 Posts: 620 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    justsing said:
    ... I was in the 3*-4* transition phase, I appreciated the higher odds for Latest as that allowed me to cover and champ 4*s faster. 
    I’d love if we could get an answer to this. Could someone fill us in on the WHY, please? @IceIX, @Brigby?
    Reading between the lines, this slows down the 4* transition significantly, and will encourage spending on hp for roster slots so that you would need to make sure you had a home for everyone you draw, or throw them away. I'd also be curious if there is an official party line for this, because acquiring generally more 4*s is not nearly as helpful as acquiring more of the 4*s you want from a player's perspective.
    I agree with you on that. I'm finishing my 14th 4* champ at the moment and the problem I don't have is getting enough 4*'s, its getting enough ISO to level up those 4*'s before the covers expire in the vine. Like you mentioned another problem is getting the 4*'s I need to fully cover a specific character or getting the right color to avoid the dreaded 6th cover in the same color. All these new changes don't help any of these problems. Either they need to increase ISO output to us or increase the odds of getting a Bonus Hero. I get more frequent bonus heroes from Heroic tokens than I do from the Latest Token store, which I spend sometimes large amounts of CP on. In theory more 4* pulls means more chances of Bonus Heroes, but it never comes off that way for the LT or Classics store.

    I liked the Latest 4*s having 4X more chance of getting selected. It helped me champ those 4*'s faster. Without this the already diluted 4* pool will be diluted even further and make it super difficult to champ a specific 4*. This is definitely going to affect the 3* to 4* transitioners who need slots to accommodate all these new 4*'s we will be supposedly getting. 

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