Update to 4-Star Pack Odds (6/4/18)

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  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So after all the vitriol of vaulting and you come to a reasonable and agreeable compromise. Now you’ve decided to throw that out the window?  Without actual odds it’s hard to really say but gut reaction is that this is not a good change. 

    Also can you clarify something. Is this only a chance to 4* odds or as in vintage vs latest or is this going to affect the odds of 2*, 3*, and/or 5* rates?
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2018
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    veny said:
    Soooo... slighly better PvE tokens (good) PvP tokens (useless for me) and more PvP events (also useless for me).
    How about making PvP finally playable and actually entertaining. Or how about making roster useful - i mean i have 150+ characters i am barely using. Give us some daily Boss challenge where we could use all our characters (each character once per day) to deal as much damage as possible for some good rewards.

    PvP is quite playable and entertaining.
    Try it with some of the characters that you are complaining about that don't get enough action... and you'll see for yourself.  

    Great to hear that the overall 4* draw rates are increasing. Thanks for the improvements! Looking forward to what the 'unusable covers' review could produce as well. 
      
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,629 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So, bottom line.... We're going to be pulling more 4* covers. Seems like building new characters will be done more with bonus heroes than before, but I count this as a big win for players. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Borstock said:
    So, bottom line.... We're going to be pulling more 4* covers. Seems like building new characters will be done more with bonus heroes than before, but I count this as a big win for players. 
    If I’m understanding that’s not correct. It’s just gonna be more varied by having the latest/vintage odds tweaked but the actual odds of getting any 4* aren’t changing.  Is that right?
  • babinro
    babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
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    Looks very promising on paper but we'll see how this all plays out. 
    I will say its kind of funny to read things like pulls increasing by 100% or 200% odds.  You'd think these changes would be more frequent and more subtle rather than 24 months and suddenly mass generosity.

    I'll say right off the bat that this change should come with a renewed focus to work on 4* tier character balancing as the nature of gradual power creep means that vintage 4*'s tend to be less viable.

    I'm excited though and definitely appreciate the effort in making 4's more accessible to the player base.

    I'm hoping this change will boost the player base enough to finally unleash CL10.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    I do appreciate the irony of this getting announced after many hoards were spent just hours earlier with the addition of Okoye to packs.  Glad I don’t hoard.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    LifeofAgony said:
    I do appreciate the irony of this getting announced after many hoards were spent just hours earlier with the addition of Okoye to packs.  Glad I don’t hoard.
    What's funny is that I still have my LTs, but will likely spend them before Wednesday anyway if Lockjaw (or a different Latest 4* character) gets announced as a 5* feeder today/tomorrow.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    Overall, a good change as of now until I have the time to figure out the odds. A featured character with 10x odds means the chance of covering him gets easier than before.

    Does this increase the number of 4* in story events vault?
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,196 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Will the taco vault feature more 4 stars? 
  • Eichen
    Eichen Posts: 176 Tile Toppler
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    @IceIX
    Because with the way current tech runs, that would mean a ton of people in a lot of different tiers and time shards.  Which could make things a bit... seedy for some shards. Which would then result in people trying to game the system to get "empty" shards. It's not impossible, but there's some other tech and backend work we'd have to consider to make sure that everyone gets a good experience there.
    No, I don't mean choose 3* or 4* PvP. I mean both, two events, at the same time.

    I'm on the forum because I'm in shield jail. If there were 4* PVP to play also I could do that while I wait for my shields to reset. (Not to mention I would then be spending double on shields)

  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
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    broll said:
    Borstock said:
    So, bottom line.... We're going to be pulling more 4* covers. Seems like building new characters will be done more with bonus heroes than before, but I count this as a big win for players. 
    If I’m understanding that’s not correct. It’s just gonna be more varied by having the latest/vintage odds tweaked but the actual odds of getting any 4* aren’t changing.  Is that right?
    The odds of acquiring a 4-Star in the Heroic Store and Legendary Store will remain the same, however they will in fact be increasing for Story Mode, 3-Star Versus Tournament, and 4-Star Versus Tournament Comic Stores.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,603 Chairperson of the Boards
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    broll said:
    Borstock said:
    So, bottom line.... We're going to be pulling more 4* covers. Seems like building new characters will be done more with bonus heroes than before, but I count this as a big win for players. 
    If I’m understanding that’s not correct. It’s just gonna be more varied by having the latest/vintage odds tweaked but the actual odds of getting any 4* aren’t changing.  Is that right?
    For Heroics and Legendary Tokens, that is correct.

    But for PVP tokens (regardless if it's a 3 or 4-star event) and for Story tokens, it should be going up.

    Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament
    • Vintage 4-Star odds increased by approximately 200%
    • Overall 4-Star odds increased by approximately 25%
    Using the Sinister Six packs as an example, with 1:17 odds to pull a 4*, that's roughly 5.9%, so that should increase to 7.3% (with equal odds of pulling any character, "Vintage increase by 200%" is the positive/optimistic way of saying "the 4x bonus on Latest characters is going away because we're treating them all equally going forward")

    You would see the same kind of increase in, say, the Predator and Prey tokens for the 3* Panther PVP that just passed. But the event is over so I can't see them to have base odds and do the math. Of course, in the Sinister Six packs, Red Hulk has a 15x modifier, and that does not seem to be addressed in this post (What exactly happens to Featured 4*s in Story Packs?)

    4-Star Versus Tournament
    • All 4-Star characters added to packs. Same odds as Story Mode and 3-Star Versus Tournament.
    • New Release / Featured at higher odds than all 4-Star characters:
    • 1x odds for featured character is approximately 10x higher than other 4-Star characters
    • 10x odds for featured character is approximately 20x higher than other 4-Star characters
    • Overall 4-Star odds increased by approxiamtely 100%

    Made-Up Name currently gives tokens to the Spider-Man & Friends vault (the one that should have been named Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends, but I digress). Which means we don't have base odds to do math with, unfortunately (same with the 3* PVP).

    But 4PVP tokens will basically treat the 4*s the same, you'll have twice the odds of pulling a 4* from 4PVP packs in general, with the featured 4* getting a big 10x stamp on them (a 20x if you buy a 10-pack, if I'm reading this correctly; I believe the 1x/10x at the start of the line refers to single pulls or the 10-pack, as 1x/10x is the nomenclature used on the store artwork within the game, with apparently no change to the 40x for some reason).

    I think, I THINK, that this will be hugely beneficial to people who hoard, mainly for HP. Going from ~5.9% to ~7.3% doesn't sound great, but if you spread that across a few hundred tokens it adds up, you know? Being able to dump HP on a 4*PVP event with a 20x bonus towards getting that PVP's 4* "should" mean that if you desperately want a specific 4* character you can have a better chance going after them when their PVP event rolls around. (how fast those events roll around, and how much HP you have to spend for it to be "worth it" are still things that are up in the air, and influenced by personal wants/needs, as I bet someone could still wait for months and months for the 4* they want and still get no covers because of RNG, put shifting things so that the 4* packs are desirable especially if you want that character is still an improvement, and is one that'll add up more in the long run than it will shock and awe when first going live)

    But it would be nice if they could post some example tokens from recent events, and some before/after odds. Like what I did (or at least attempted) with the Sinister Six tokens, but with actual odds from the devs and someone that is more confident with their math than I am.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The odds of 4* in story vault is 3/80. Is it always 1 essential, 1 vintage and 1 latest? It looks to be so. In that case, we would see 3 vintage instead in story event vaults?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    LifeofAgony said:
    I do appreciate the irony of this getting announced after many hoards were spent just hours earlier with the addition of Okoye to packs.  Glad I don’t hoard.
    I think it was very much intentional and not at all a coincidence. 

    What IS ironic is I just posted in another thread earlier that I’m NOT opening my hoard until Spidey gets into tokens because he needs levels to be effective and I want to champ and beef him up because he seems really fun.  Whelp... while I’ll still wait, I’m probably looking at a few BH covers rather than having him surpass my level 280+ Miles.  D3, you did it again!

    What’s even funnier is after people cried about vaulting and then cried when it was taken away we finally had a character ratio that people were all okay with. Why mess with that now when no one was asking for it?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    IceIX said:
    Eichen said:
    @IceIX

    Why do you have to look for more opportunities to run more 4* PvP? Why can't you just run a 4* PvP alongside the current 3*? 
    Because with the way current tech runs, that would mean a ton of people in a lot of different tiers and time shards.  Which could make things a bit... seedy for some shards. Which would then result in people trying to game the system to get "empty" shards. It's not impossible, but there's some other tech and backend work we'd have to consider to make sure that everyone gets a good experience there.
    What about allowing us to choose between a featured 3 or 4 of your choosing but putting us all in the same shards. I mean the tech is there for sure because we have special events (Deadpool valentines, Claws for Concern, Sakaar Arena, etc.). This would allow everyone a chance to play but those with 4s more of a chance to use them. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    babinro said:
    Looks very promising on paper but we'll see how this all plays out. 
    I will say its kind of funny to read things like pulls increasing by 100% or 200% odds.  You'd think these changes would be more frequent and more subtle rather than 24 months and suddenly mass generosity.

    I'll say right off the bat that this change should come with a renewed focus to work on 4* tier character balancing as the nature of gradual power creep means that vintage 4*'s tend to be less viable.

    I'm excited though and definitely appreciate the effort in making 4's more accessible to the player base.

    I'm hoping this change will boost the player base enough to finally unleash CL10.
    Its because it’s not that generous when you get through all the smoke and mirrors.  A 200% increase (or whatever) to vintage characters means a 200% decrease in Latests when the overall numbers don’t change. This is the case in Legendary and Heroics which are the only tokens I pull 4* from (the latter only due to the sheer amount that drop). 

    I hardly ever get a 4 from versus tokens or story tokens. I almost always pull 2s with the occasional 3. I can count the 4s I’ve pulled in the last year probably on one hand. So while increasing the odds there by 25% is a nice token (see what I did there) gesture, it’s such a small bump overall (and of course wasn’t applied to Heroics), that it feels like a way to make the return of full scale dilution more palatable to the masses. The way the data is presented further leads me to believe this. 
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So is this the final nail in the coffin of Vaulting? Well, at least the developers aren't afraid to admit it when they make mistakes. :expressionless:

    Does this mean Supports will be gone in a year, too?

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