Story Event Minimum Points - Trial Run (3/9/18)

IceHockey333

It is a bit boring, not being able to play an extra hour when I want to kill time at work.

LavaManLee

I think the tapping/non-tapping still doesn't address the main issue : not enough slices.  Whether there is tapping or no tapping, it still revolves around starting and ending each PVE at a specific time that may or may not work for people based on life, work and sleep.  More slices would be greatly appreciated.

ZeroKarma

IceHockey333 said:

It is a bit boring, not being able to play an extra hour when I want to kill time at work.

Time to get addicted to another Marvel game! When you’re done with one you play the other!

broll

Daiches said:

broll said:

I admit that no time slice for my work schedule.  I admit that some points > no points. 

What I’ve come to accept as the most optimal I can do is:
4 clears at start. 
2-3 clears during my lunch break ~5 hours before the end. 

I clear early because I can’t guarantee 30-45 minutes at the end to play. So I clear when I can reasonably guarantee and accept my T50 begrudgingly. 

5h before S3 end time is S2 end time. Won't that work better for you then?

Nope.  I barely get the half clear I'm doing done over my break.  On top of that I can't rely on always having that break, if/when it doesn't happen doing it this way I can try and steal clears in little bits throughout my work day (something I shouldn't feel obligated to do to play a game effectively)

shardwick

Bowgentle said:

shardwick said:

Daredevil217 said:

aesthetocyst said:

just started event and looked at rewards.

I sure am glad they saved us from tapping for those sweet Drax covers

It’s my understanding that the tappers are in CL9 and do so for the Legendary; not the 4* covers that they are beyond, though I could be wrong. 

leoperez90 said:

I think it's best if you decrease the amount of times one has to clear the missions from 6 to 4 this would give players more time to enjoy the game and have time to do some PvP. 

I believe you only need 5 clears, not 6 for max progression. And perhaps only need 4 if you include the 5* node and clear optimally. 

maguirenumber6 said:

I do agree with others who say that PvE should be progression only. The devs, to my mind, could fairly easily make small changes to the PvE reward structure in order to integrate the placement rewards.

I strongly disagree with those folks. You can play for progression only and clear at your own pace now. PVP that’s not an option because progression is often met with even greater regression if you aren’t putting up shields regualrly. But you can absolutely play to max progression in PVE no problem. People asking for PVE to be progression only either want to remove rewards (which I completely don’t get) or make it so everyone gets the top placement rewards (which the developers won’t do as it severely lessens the value of said rewards). So I cringe every time I hear this statement. PVE is fine as is. After removing roster based scaling and tapping, I hope they leave it alone. PVP is where the work needs to be done IMO. 

Alliance events are progression only.
DDQ is progression only.
The gauntlet was progression only when it ran.
Mini events (Coulson, GotG) were progression only when they ran.
System Reboot is progression only.
Shield Training is progression only.

But we shouldn't make the rest of pve events progression only because it would severely lessen the value of said rewards, or something.

If DDQ had placement rewards:
A post in the best moment of the day thread. "Just barely got top 10 in my ddq bracket to snag the legendary!!!! Sucks to be in 11th and only get some taco tokens and the 3* cover."

On my baby acct the alliance that I'm in is pretty casual but they go pretty damn hard when it comes to alliance events. When we were able to clear round 7 on the last day to get the third Vulture cover we were all extremely excited and proud of ourselves. I don't think anyone could say that those rewards that we worked so hard for lost value simply because they were progression rewards and not placement rewards. If anything taking placement rewards and putting them into the tail end of the progression structure would only increase their value because you would need to clear most nodes to get them.

An example. A three day pve event with three subs has ten nodes and each node has six clears. A player wants to get all rewards. There is no longer an arbitrary point number set for each node that refreshes. 

4 clears of each node - 120 clears for cp (old max prog standard)
5 clears of each node - 150 clears for hp, event tokens and iso
6 clears of each node - 180 clears for extra cp, iso and a 4* cover for the next event (or equivalent on lower clearance levels)
Bonus sub looks similar to ddq layout would be unlocked with all clears completed - extra covers, hp, iso, tokens, cp

Time slices are gone. Tapping is done. Bracket sniping is done. Waiting for a bracket to flip in the middle of the night is done. Oh and alliance rewards would work in a similar way as alliance events. Or we could keep the current structure because playing hardcore and being top 5 for a week long event only to have your internet/server go down in the final hour of your grind on the last day which knocks you out of the top 10, when you had a great shot at first place, is always super fun.

Devs don't want progression only.
They want competition for the best rewards - CP and LTs.
It's what drives spending.

It wasn't an accident that the final 15 CP were for T10, not in progression, when they tried win-based PVP.

Does the majority of your cp come from progression or placement rewards? Here's mine. DDQ every day, shield resupply, champ rewards, pve progression, pvp progression, pvp season progression, cp from 5* node and the hardest node and cp from boss fights. Now and then maybe some cp from my alliance. For placement rewards that's top placement in subs and pvp season placement. Progression cp absolutely dwarfs placement reward cp for me. Well, what about legendaries? DDQ crash events, alliance events and champ rewards. From placement rewards that's a legendary every pvp season from my alliance. Again, just playing the game and progression rewards nets me more legendaries than placement rewards.

I'd wager that it's the same for most players.

entrailbucket

broll said:

Daiches said:

broll said:

I admit that no time slice for my work schedule.  I admit that some points > no points. 

What I’ve come to accept as the most optimal I can do is:
4 clears at start. 
2-3 clears during my lunch break ~5 hours before the end. 

I clear early because I can’t guarantee 30-45 minutes at the end to play. So I clear when I can reasonably guarantee and accept my T50 begrudgingly. 

5h before S3 end time is S2 end time. Won't that work better for you then?

Nope.  I barely get the half clear I'm doing done over my break.  On top of that I can't rely on always having that break, if/when it doesn't happen doing it this way I can try and steal clears in little bits throughout my work day (something I shouldn't feel obligated to do to play a game effectively)

If playing on a schedule is that upsetting, maybe find a different game to play?  Most of the games in the history of games don't require playing at a certain time to win.  Surely one of them would work.

Spudgutter

entrailbucket said:

broll said:

Daiches said:

broll said:

I admit that no time slice for my work schedule.  I admit that some points > no points. 

What I’ve come to accept as the most optimal I can do is:
4 clears at start. 
2-3 clears during my lunch break ~5 hours before the end. 

I clear early because I can’t guarantee 30-45 minutes at the end to play. So I clear when I can reasonably guarantee and accept my T50 begrudgingly. 

5h before S3 end time is S2 end time. Won't that work better for you then?

Nope.  I barely get the half clear I'm doing done over my break.  On top of that I can't rely on always having that break, if/when it doesn't happen doing it this way I can try and steal clears in little bits throughout my work day (something I shouldn't feel obligated to do to play a game effectively)

If playing on a schedule is that upsetting, maybe find a different game to play?  Most of the games in the history of games don't require playing at a certain time to win.  Surely one of them would work.

Why is everyone so condescending about his desire for more slice times?  Broll stated repeatedly he takes what he gets and is ok with it, just wished it worked better for him.  Must every contrary opinion mean they should just stop playing the game?  What happened to seeing someone's arguement from their point of view?

Its just like vaulting, or wins based pvp or any other topic.  There will be people that like it, and those that don't.  If they added or changed some slice times, it wouldn't break my heart.  Just like everyone else, i would adapt.  I wouldn't go play another game.  

It's ironic, if his schedule were different, and he were able to be one of the tappers, people would chastise him for that decision as well.  It's been awhile since I've seen such a good example for a catch 22.  Bravo.

entrailbucket

Spudgutter said:

Why is everyone so condescending about his desire for more slice times?  Broll stated repeatedly he takes what he gets and is ok with it, just wished it worked better for him.  Must every contrary opinion mean they should just stop playing the game?  What happened to seeing someone's arguement from their point of view?

Its just like vaulting, or wins based pvp or any other topic.  There will be people that like it, and those that don't.  If they added or changed some slice times, it wouldn't break my heart.  Just like everyone else, i would adapt.  I wouldn't go play another game.  

It's ironic, if his schedule were different, and he were able to be one of the tappers, people would chastise him for that decision as well.  It's been awhile since I've seen such a good example for a catch 22.  Bravo.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think I was being condescending.  For 4 years or whatever now, this game has required you to play on a schedule, and the times have been the same.  At this point, being upset about the current system would be akin to saying "I really like MPQ, but I hate matching-3.  You guys should change the game so instead of match-3, you tap on the screen really fast to do damage to the other team." 

The correct, helpful response to that would be "Maybe quit playing this match-3 game and find one that doesn't upset you quite so much."

Spudgutter

entrailbucket said:

Spudgutter said:

Why is everyone so condescending about his desire for more slice times?  Broll stated repeatedly he takes what he gets and is ok with it, just wished it worked better for him.  Must every contrary opinion mean they should just stop playing the game?  What happened to seeing someone's arguement from their point of view?

Its just like vaulting, or wins based pvp or any other topic.  There will be people that like it, and those that don't.  If they added or changed some slice times, it wouldn't break my heart.  Just like everyone else, i would adapt.  I wouldn't go play another game.  

It's ironic, if his schedule were different, and he were able to be one of the tappers, people would chastise him for that decision as well.  It's been awhile since I've seen such a good example for a catch 22.  Bravo.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think I was being condescending.  For 4 years or whatever now, this game has required you to play on a schedule, and the times have been the same.  At this point, being upset about the current system would be akin to saying "I really like MPQ, but I hate matching-3.  You guys should change the game so instead of match-3, you tap on the screen really fast to do damage to the other team." 

The correct, helpful response to that would be "Maybe quit playing this match-3 game and find one that doesn't upset you quite so much."

I guess because he never said it upset him, is where it comes off as condescension, imo.  Like i said, wanting things to be better =/= you should quit.

Don't like that there isn't Cl10?  you should play another game.

You don't like that there isn't a 4* DDQ crash every day?  you should play another game..

etc.

Brigby

*Please keep all comments civil and on the topic of event missions' minimum points dropping to 0 for the trial run.

Spudgutter

aesthetocyst said:

Spudgutter said: ... if his schedule were different, and he were able to be one of the tappers, people would chastise him for that decision as well.  It's been awhile since I've seen such a good example for a catch 22.  Bravo.

I suggest you reread Catch-22. (No sane person would want to fly ## missions. The sane response is to look for a way out. Therefore, anyone claiming to be mentally unfit for duty is by definition sane and fit for duty. Only the mentally unfit would happily attempt to fly ## missions ... (Or something like that, it gets all wheels within wheels))

If the schedule fairies shined on Broll, he would not automatically start tapping. Those are two separate issues. And I suspect many a tapper was doing so at various levels of personal sacrifice.

The big word in my quote being "IF" and it loses the proper context when you cut out what i was replying to, where he is told to stop playing...

I.E. IF he had the time and were a tapper, people would not like how he was playing the game and wished he would stop, and by not being a tapper, he is being told to stop.

aesthetocyst said:

Take it easy; overstretching like that can cause injury.

same advice to you, in your quest to have snark in every comment (something i think we all aspire to) you missed my point

aesthetocyst said:

Oh, hey, I know ... monetize the end times in PvE as they have in PvP via the power of shields.

But instead of shields, we would need to buy hours.

Pay ## hp to skip all the regens ahead by 1hr, ### hp for 2hrs, #### hp for 4hrs.

Crank up the clock, grind it down, done.

To keep it from being pay-to-win, lock the nodes when they hit 0.

No more tapping out those partial pts in the final minutes, but I think the time manipulation would be more user friendly.

i'm convinced this has probably been thought of by D3...great suggestion

Dogface

So, having just finished day 1/2 of HoD, i didn't really feel like it it changed much.  I did 4 clears at the beginning and the 2 other clears somewhere in the next day and a half or so. And to make sure i finished top 100 (hp!!), I had to do some nodes for the seventh time. Is the only difference now that nodes get to zero and stay there till regen (what's that in minutes btw?). If so, tapping can still be done, only not as often.

entrailbucket

Spudgutter said:

entrailbucket said:

Spudgutter said:

Why is everyone so condescending about his desire for more slice times?  Broll stated repeatedly he takes what he gets and is ok with it, just wished it worked better for him.  Must every contrary opinion mean they should just stop playing the game?  What happened to seeing someone's arguement from their point of view?

Its just like vaulting, or wins based pvp or any other topic.  There will be people that like it, and those that don't.  If they added or changed some slice times, it wouldn't break my heart.  Just like everyone else, i would adapt.  I wouldn't go play another game.  

It's ironic, if his schedule were different, and he were able to be one of the tappers, people would chastise him for that decision as well.  It's been awhile since I've seen such a good example for a catch 22.  Bravo.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think I was being condescending.  For 4 years or whatever now, this game has required you to play on a schedule, and the times have been the same.  At this point, being upset about the current system would be akin to saying "I really like MPQ, but I hate matching-3.  You guys should change the game so instead of match-3, you tap on the screen really fast to do damage to the other team." 

The correct, helpful response to that would be "Maybe quit playing this match-3 game and find one that doesn't upset you quite so much."

I guess because he never said it upset him, is where it comes off as condescension, imo.  Like i said, wanting things to be better =/= you should quit.

Don't like that there isn't Cl10?  you should play another game.

You don't like that there isn't a 4* DDQ crash every day?  you should play another game..

etc.

While I'd love to have what would most assuredly be a riveting pages-long debate with you about the meaning of the word "upset," it would indeed be off-topic. (Although oddly it was that other guy who took my speed=skill statement and used it to derail this thread into an off-topic discussion about how he objects to the current set of PvE end times.)

Back on topic, early results so far are showing that the most skillful players are indeed topping brackets.  This looks like a very positive change!  I'm excited for the first sub grind in a few hours.

LifeofAgony

Non-550s best 550s by about 20 points in my brackets.  Close scoring but much much more competive.  Big thumbs up.

Kevmcg

Several thoughts:

For many, this change won't mean anything. But for those that regularly compete for Top 1/5/10, this change is "everything." If you are OK with top 50/100+, there will be no difference for you other than a shift of players to the SCL where they can earn the best rewards under this structure. Tappers can no longer brute force their way to LTs in SCL9, so many will drop to lower levels.

Skill, planning, and resource management is absolutely needed if you want to be in top 5. Having a 450 Thanos is nearly as good as a 500+ Thanos for most nodes. Just because a player wins every match in a grind, does not mean they deserve the best rewards. There are reasons that the same players tend to be at the top and most times punch above their weight class - not all is having a bigger roster even though that helps. 

Very happy that PVE is based on a defined window of competition again.

Also - there won't be many ties. The past experiment that had the ties was caused because regen was turned off. Everyone that played optimal ended up with the same score. Many of us got a bunch of extra X-23 covers because of that poor model. Already, this trial is showing variety with 2 subs left

broll

Kevmcg said:

Skill, planning, and resource management is absolutely needed if you want to be in top 5. 

Unfortunately all of the skill, planning, and resource management in the world still cannot overcome the problem of time slice that don't work for you.  Not saying this isn't an improvement, just continuing to note that while this may take the grain of sand out of the eye of placement, the plank still remains...

Nick441234

Move the 5pm finish time to 9pm, happy days! 

ZeroKarma

broll said:

Kevmcg said:

Skill, planning, and resource management is absolutely needed if you want to be in top 5. 

Unfortunately all of the skill, planning, and resource management in the world still cannot overcome the problem of time slice that don't work for you.  Not saying this isn't an improvement, just continuing to note that while this may take the grain of sand out of the eye of placement, the plank still remains...

Please note @OJSP comment above. Time slice availability is a separate problem for a separate discussion. Most tappers are not doing so because timing is inconvenient. This can be proven by looking at the leaderboards and watching the initial and final grinds.

Some fixes have been suggested and another thoughtful thread should be created to discuss approaches to time slice problems. But this repeated answer of “Fix A to Problem A sucks because it doesn’t fix Problem B” is derailing the discussion.

Quebbster

Looks like I will have my usual top 50 finish from playing in the way I usually does, so the new system is fairly neutral to me. Still, if I want to improve my performance I just need to be quicker, and a system that benefits the one who spends the least time on the game is infinitely preferable to one that benefits the one spending the most time on the game.

fight4thedream

***Mode Mode: ON***

I removed a post and issued a warning for a violation of rule 7. While I understand people feel passionately about the issue of fairness in PvE play, please remember to be civil and constructive. 

Also, this thread was intended to collect players' responses and feedback to the test so please keep the conversation on topic. I know there are many issues to the matter of PvE and I myself have gone off on a tangent in my own response to the test but please try to keep comments, questions and criticisms focused on the purpose and experience of the test. 

If you wish to discuss other facets of the PvE format or player experience, I ask that you start a separate thread (which I might actually do myself if I can find time for it. It's an intriguing issue! ) Apparently @ZeroKarma has already taken the initiative here. Thank you!

***Mod Mode: OFF***