MPQ March Madness complete -- Congrats to the champ: Captain Marvel!

Smart80

hunky_funky said:

Smart80 said:

Nice explanation, but thats how AI would play that match.. A decent player would gather some blue and additional black before going airborne...

So it's a tie then? If you playing C4arol against Vulture you'll win, and if you playing Vulture against C4arol you'll win too. So what's the the point of comparing? If we could set AI vs. AI, like a demo fight, and see what will happen, I think no one will complane if one of them wins (I don't know, even in best of 3). But we can't...

True, just saying if its player v player for real, or anything but AIvAI, its not clear cut victory for Carol..

HoundofShadow

Anything is possible. It depends on the board and a little bit of luck. The scenario that I've given is unlikely to happen.

If I were playing Vulture, I would run him at 3/5/5 against C4rol and C4rol at 5/3/5 against Vulture.

Assuming no ap boost used, no cascade and both characters at lvl 270:

1) Vulture will ideally avoid black matches because matching black would let C4rol gains 4 black ap and deals 2207 damage to him.

2) Vulture's green countdown tile (9ap) will hit C4rol on his 6th turn for 6641 damage. 3 turn to gather 9 green ap and 3 turn for his countdown to finish.

3) Vulture's blue will hit C4rol on his 5th turn. 4 turn to gather 10 blue ap and the 5th turn to do direct damage for 6586 damage.

Ideally, it will take Vulture 7 turns to gain 20 blue ap and the 8th turn to dish out blue ability twice for 13172 damage. Match damage would be 74*3*7= 1554.  8 turns is needed to knock out C4rol. His green needs 9 turns to knock out C4rol. 6 turns to gather 18 green aps and another 3 turns to deal 13282 damage + total match damage of 65x3x6 =1170. Even a combination of gathering green followed by blue takes: 3 turns to gather green. 4th turn: Use green and gather blue. 7th turn to gather 10 blue. 8th turn to finish C4rol.

Ideally, C4rol would gather black ap for first 3 turns (match damage = 85x3x3 = 765). On her 4th turn, she will throw out Photonic Barrage and match yellow. On the 5th turn, 220 Strike tile are created and she matches yellow again. On her 6th turn, another 220 Strike tile is created. Total yellow match damage for 2 turns = (74x3 = 222) + (74x3+220)=  222 +222 + 220 = 664.
On her 6th turn, she uses Executive Decision and her Photonic Barrage deals 11674 + 440 =12114 damage. Add the damages from her black and yellow matches and you'll get 12114 + 765 + 664 = 13523.

In an ideal scenario for both characters, C4rol is still 2 turns ahead of Vulture.

Daredevil217

HoundofShadow said:

3rd comparison
Vulture's 10ap blue ability deal single damage and removes up to 4 enemy special tiles(strike, attack and protect). It activates automatically if he goes airborne and has 10 blue ap and removes invisibility, countdown and repeater tiles as well. 

Vulture’s blue does not remove tiles it destroys them. Why is that important? Because he actually gets AP for the tiles he destroys. So he’s an even better battery than people think.

I don’t care about 1 v 1 because that’s not what this is about but it’s funny if timed right he could destroy Carols black tile and get more black AP (plus AP from placed strikes) to help keep him afloat. I’ve done that one before. 

HoundofShadow

Anything is possible. That's why I think I would put it as a tie. I didn't notice that Vulture's blue gains him ap as well when i was using him.

CT1888

@Brigby @IceIX can you run an AI vs AI model? Or to celebrate the effort and the competition, the off season after this, run a pvp of the eventual winner?

Orion

CT1888 said:

@Brigby @IceIX can you run an AI vs AI model? Or to celebrate the effort and the competition, the off season after this, run a pvp of the eventual winner?

Ugh, I don't want to see a Carol PvP, that would be a bloodbath.

Smart80

Orion said:

CT1888 said:

@Brigby @IceIX can you run an AI vs AI model? Or to celebrate the effort and the competition, the off season after this, run a pvp of the eventual winner?

Ugh, I don't want to see a Carol PvP, that would be a bloodbath.

Yes, yes, now come vote for Vulture.... *excellent*

Rockwell75

hunky_funky said: So it's a tie then? If you playing C4arol against Vulture you'll win, and if you playing Vulture against C4arol you'll win too. So what's the the point of comparing?

If I was facing a team with both Vulture and Carol on it I would take out Vulture first. 

Dormammu

Someone catch me up...

Was the spirit of this whole thing who would win in a 1-on-1 fight? If so, how the tinykitty did Peggy get so far?

Spudgutter

Rockwell75 said:

hunky_funky said: So it's a tie then? If you playing C4arol against Vulture you'll win, and if you playing Vulture against C4arol you'll win too. So what's the the point of comparing?

If I was facing a team with both Vulture and Carol on it I would take out Vulture first. 

Depends on who the 3rd person is, and who i am bringing to the match. If i am running a mirror match, and i have vulture and carol on my team, i am taking out carol first.

Dormammu

I didn't really get involved because at the dawn of this idea it looked like it would get pretty messy, but it ended up very interesting. Looking at the bracket in retrospect there were some later-round match-ups that surprise me. Some observations...

Captain Marvel had a pretty easy path. No one she went up against had a shot. That's not a complaint against the bracket, but more of a testament to how good Carol is.

Rogue did well against some stiff competition, mainly Teen Jean and Iceman. I'm very impressed she got by Iceman, actually. I would have guessed him a lock for the final four.

It looks like Peggy snuck by Riri in a close one. That's a tough call. Both of them are strong offensively and they're both absolute terrors when boosted. I think I would have gone with Riri there only because she's a self-accelerator and absolutely unique in what she can do. But Peggy's top 5 so I can hardly argue with her victory. Unfortunately for her, no one on the lower half of the bracket had a shot against Vulture. I would have liked to see how the voting would go for Peggy vs. Carol.

America Chavez is good, but I can't believe she trounced Rhulk the way she did. Not that I think Rhulk is a better 4-star, but he's a pretty versatile guy whereas you're kinda locked into one strategy with Chavez. Plus, when he's boosted, Rhulk crushes (literally) everyone. I would have guessed that voting to be closer.

Captain Marvel vs. Vulture
This is a great final two and I'm fascinated to see who wins. I break it down like this: In a 1-on-1 I'd have to favor Carol, because in order to be fast enough Vulture is going to have to go airborne. To go Airborne he'll have to match black, and that's a problem against Carol. She'll cause damage and gather black off his matches; by the time he lands she could have nasty strikes out and possibly nuke him with her yellow. But as a teammate, I think Vulture is the better and more versatile character and if they were both on the same team, I'd have to try and take out Vulture first. Looking at how well they improve when boosted, they're both monsters and I'd have to call it a tie.

This is like Foremen vs. Ali. Who knows what's going to happen?

Rockwell75

I think Riri never quite got over the bad rep she had before she was buffed as she's very unique and really probably a top 5 character at the end of the day, especially boosted and/or paired with a battery like Vulture.  Vulture/Riri reminds one of IM40/Peggy/Iceman from an earlier meta.

tiomono

I vote based on who I enjoy playing the most and who I see as a threat on the other team.

So if I have a character that I always try to get rid of first that boosts my vote for them. And if I always look for a way to use a specific character when they are boosted or sometimes even if they are not boosted my vote leans there.

CT1888

aesthetocyst said:

CT1888 said:

@Brigby @IceIX can you run an AI vs AI model?

No matter how that's set up (1v1, matches involving randomly created teams, each placed on the same arbitrarily slected team, each on a team handpicked to complement them...) , it will have little relevance to play involving humans.

Indeed it's not going to be relevant to human player, but AI vs AI puts them on a level playing field, to strip out the "but I wouldn't do that if I was playing them" argument.
Also, I'm my mind it is something along the lines of this:
https://youtu.be/T_fv368faeg

acescracked

All 1 and 2 seeds. Where's the Cinderellas at?  No 9 or 11 seeds making a deep run.

Smart80

acescracked said:

All 1 and 2 seeds. Where's the Cinderellas at?  No 9 or 11 seeds making a deep run.

Pretty much impossible, unless there is some nerf in between seeding and matches, when same people are asked in both.. 

Aweberman

Aweberman said:

Championship
(1) Captain Marvel vs. (1) Vulture, 74-25

Though there was enough rumbling in advance of the final to make me wonder how close it was going to be, in the end, it turned out not to be close at all; while this was Carol's narrowest margin of victory, she still picked up 71% of the vote.

Thanks to everyone who commented and participated in this event!

Anon

I still say Vulture is better 

Dormammu

All hail the queen.

Smart80

Not my favourite, but it was a fun month! Tyvm Aweberman!!