For the Mods, in reference to cheating discussions

FokaiHI

You’re right. I couldn’t tell who it was with the gamer pic. Good call 

Dayv

tobismaul said:

For the most part there are only 2 parties that can confirm if someone has cheated. The person that cheated and the developer. Everything else is anecdotal or circumstantial evidence that can be presented to the developer but ultimately the developer has to investigate and come to some sort of conclusion.

I don't think anyone can expect the developer to comment on individual players and I don't think they should be. Are we going to a system where everyone that is reported is publicly considered guilty and the developer has to publicly clear them and explain their reasons?

This isn't a public court of MPQ justice. Report the player and move on.

[Formal moderator note:  This brings up a very important point.  It is inappropriate and forbidden to accuse any specific player(s) on these forums, and there are rules against doing this.  For any specific instance of a player you believe is cheating, please contact customer support with your report.]

Less formally: I just want to let people know that there is a lively debate over exactly how to handle the threads referred to by the OP here.  The recent forum decisions causing concern are not necessarily how this will always be handled.

No matter what policy clarifications or changes are made, one thing will remain absolute: forum members provide no information that points to the methods being used to cheat.  If you know that petting a goat adds one level to each of your characters, please don't post that "people abusing the petting zoo leveling exploit must stop!"  Your local petting zoo may appreciate the increased business (and goats deserve love), but you also just made a bad thing worse.

Beta-Ray Bill

Justice Jacks said:

tobismaul said:

Please accept this comment as independent of the current situation that seems to have created such a stir among some players.

For the most part there are only 2 parties that can confirm if someone has cheated. The person that cheated and the developer. Everything else is anecdotal or circumstantial evidence that can be presented to the developer but ultimately the developer has to investigate and come to some sort of conclusion.

I don't think anyone can expect the developer to comment on individual players and I don't think they should be. Are we going to a system where everyone that is reported is publicly considered guilty and the developer has to publicly clear them and explain their reasons?

This isn't a public court of MPQ justice. Report the player and move on. If you feel like the developer isn't taking the situation seriously and it is ruining the game somehow then play another game, go have some fun. It is in the developers best interest to remove cheaters to maintain a player base for this exact reason, people will move on if they feel the game has been compromised and spend their money elsewhere.

I understand that people get personally and emotionally attached but what else do you expect the developer to say, other than thank you for making us aware, we are looking into it. Just because you think you spotted a cheater doesn't mean you have the right to all the details about the situation.

Another question I would as is at what point do we accept the developers decision. At what point do we accept manufactured and manipulated "evidence" by other players. At what point does this become a witch hunt.

I agree that when there has been wide spread cheating reported and the developer has initiated communication about the cheating they should be more transparent in how they have handled or will be handling it. In the past this particular developer has failed in this regard with little to no follow up. When it comes to an individual player though, report it, move on, let the developer deal with it from there.

If you had $100k sunk into this game, would you just say "ho hum, this cheating sucks, I'm going to move on now" or would you maybe, just maybe, do everything in your power to get the cheating resolved so you could continue to enjoy the thing you dumped so much money into.

If you neighbor keeps flinging dog poop against your house, do you just leave your house, and all the $ you invested in it, sitting there and move into another house?  Personally, I'd do everything I could to get a restraining order against the neighbor, but I'm just weird like that, I guess. 

And your example isnt even close to similar. Because that you personally can catch them multiple ways. What tobi has stated here is there’s no other way to prove from the community stand point somebody is cheating, unless it’s obvious. 

Why is it fair the person(s) who drop $100k willingly have more power here than any other person to persuade a company of anything? Do these people work for the company? Their word is no stronger than my own, but yet everyone seems to think that these people who spend (like I said... their choice to spend) have the power to flex their muscles and things go their way.

please

*Removed personal attacks - Ducky

The rockett

One of the things that bugs me is the radio silence with this.  No update.  No nothing. It would be nice for them to make an official statement on the concerns we have brought to their attention many times. 

Brigby

Hi Everyone.

As some of you may know, there has been a particular player that the community has recently brought to our attention. We have investigated the player’s account, and found there was an error on our part that created their rapid roster growth; a combination of legitimate Customer Support cover swaps, and an oversight with accreditation of Classic Legends characters.

We will be working with this player to address this incident, and resolve it in a fair and appropriate manner. We apologize for any confusion this situation has caused.

DaBeast911

@Brigby You never responded to my post, which was removed not once but twice and now you post this. Forgive me but my trust and belief in what you, D3/Demiurge and the forum mods say/do are about as close to zero as the number one. Do any of us believe anything will happen? Probably not. Will it be fair and appropriate? Nope. Will they roll back his roster? Nah.

Kevmcg

So based on response above, Brigby has confirmed they are reviewing the situation. I'm 100% sure something will happen, but what they do is up to them. They have no obligation, nor should they report the response to the general public. Don't like it, don't play and certainly don't continue investing. There have been several glitches, mistakes, exploits - whatever you want to call them over the last 4 years. I am more concerned when alliances/groups are able to disrupt the fairness of the game than one individual they are clearly reviewing. Above all, this is a GAME many of us invest a lot of time into, and for some, a ton of money, but no player at any spending level should dictate what happens.

LifeofAgony

Doesn’t inspire confidence given the last “fair and appropriate” punishment for an “error” was a 2 week ban from cover swaps.

Justice Jacks

Beta-Ray Bill said:

And your example isnt even close to similar. Because that you personally can catch them multiple ways. What tobi has stated here is there’s no other way to prove from the community stand point somebody is cheating, unless it’s obvious. 

Oops?

Strange how player X is called out for impossible/improper roster growth and then shortly thereafter it's discovered that player X's roster has, in fact, been growing improperly.

And I'll just go ahead and speculate a bit that this is likely just the tip of the iceberg, and as far a D3 can truly sleuth this.  Demiurge, on the other hand, . . . 

tiomono

Justice Jacks said:

Beta-Ray Bill said:

And your example isnt even close to similar. Because that you personally can catch them multiple ways. What tobi has stated here is there’s no other way to prove from the community stand point somebody is cheating, unless it’s obvious. 

Oops?

Strange how player X is called out for impossible/improper roster growth and then shortly thereafter it's discovered that player X's roster has, in fact, been growing improperly.

And I'll just go ahead and speculate a bit that this is likely just the tip of the iceberg, and as far a D3 can truly sleuth this.  Demiurge, on the other hand, . . . 

But they do not have to respond to any of the accusations. It' not your right to know. Report suspected cheaters given the tools that you have,(the forums by the way is not one of those tools) and let them handle it.

D3/demi do not need an online witch hunting service from players that oftentimes have their own motivations for calling an accounts properness into question. It's really that simple.

It's sad that brigby even decided to respond and immediately got met with criticism that they are "obviously hiding something" and nothing will be done.

Justice Jacks

tiomono said:

But they do not have to respond to any of the accusations. It' not your right to know. 

Well, actually, they kinda do.  If you believe the anecdotal evidence I'm seeing as proof of the larger issue, many big spenders have closed their wallets over this.  And coupled with the realization that it's a known issue in the community at large, you kind of do have to go public with the information to try and quell the damage.  

Do they HAVE to respond publicly?  No.  Is it my RIGHT to know?  Of course not.  Is this the best approach they have to get more funds flowing back in the door?  Probably a safe assumption.

tiomono said:

Report suspected cheaters given the tools that you have,(the forums by the way is not one of those tools) and let them handle it.

D3/demi do not need an online witch hunting service from players that oftentimes have their own motivations for calling an accounts properness into question. It's really that simple.

Well, considering this tool has worked faster than the weeks of in-game reporting (for this particular issue as well as the many Steam hackers), I think your first sentence is objectively false.

How many players have been accused on this forum in such a direct and meaningful way?  Your critique would hold more water if it didn't appear this forum was batting 1.000 at this point.

tiomono said:

It's sad that brigby even decided to respond and immediately got met with criticism that they are "obviously hiding something" and nothing will be done.

Admittedly, I think there is a bit of confusion in this regard.  Brigby has a window into D3 and their investigation.  Since these customer-service errors are entirely within D3's purview, it would make sense that they'd catch these upon researching the account.  The larger issue in play is how those Latest covers were being acquired at what appears to be an impossibly fast, and unprecedented, rate in the first instance.  That will likely require investigation of the account and game utilizing the code base, which would not be within D3's portion of the investigation.  Rather, that's where Demiurge comes in, and that type of inquiry will likely take a bit more time to complete.  Hence, my final sentence.   

The rockett

The problem is the trust for them to do something about it. I am not talking about just this issue, I am talking about all of them.  I have been instructed to not talk specifically about the "issues" so I cannot call them out by name, but you know which ones I am talking about.  The stance on cheating in general has been very loose in 2017. I am hoping heading into 2018 Demi and D3 will take a more proactive role and NOT rely on the player base to do a lot of the heavy lifting to get to a major flash point this is right now.   

Ducky

***The account in question has been looked into and @Brigby has given you said results in this thread. Any further accusations will be dealt with as rule violations because they are. If you believe anyone is cheating, report it CS. The forum is not the place to accuse people of cheating.***

DaBeast911

tiomono said:

Justice Jacks said:

Beta-Ray Bill said:

And your example isnt even close to similar. Because that you personally can catch them multiple ways. What tobi has stated here is there’s no other way to prove from the community stand point somebody is cheating, unless it’s obvious. 

Oops?

Strange how player X is called out for impossible/improper roster growth and then shortly thereafter it's discovered that player X's roster has, in fact, been growing improperly.

And I'll just go ahead and speculate a bit that this is likely just the tip of the iceberg, and as far a D3 can truly sleuth this.  Demiurge, on the other hand, . . . 

But they do not have to respond to any of the accusations. It' not your right to know. Report suspected cheaters given the tools that you have,(the forums by the way is not one of those tools) and let them handle it.

D3/demi do not need an online witch hunting service from players that oftentimes have their own motivations for calling an accounts properness into question. It's really that simple.

It's sad that brigby even decided to respond and immediately got met with criticism that they are "obviously hiding something" and nothing will be done.

You apparently haven't spent the money that we whales have. if you did, you'd see why cheating in this game is a major issue. Reporting cheating to customer service gets you nowhere. they don't care, it costs D3, Demiurge or whatever name they go by money so they let it run rampant, unchecked. it's not an online witch hunt, it's a call for action to be taken on a player that devalues every single penny ANYONE has spent on this game. If you don't know what you're addressing, don't address it at all, it's that simple.

Brigby didn't get met with criticism, he got met with the truth. It's been proven, time and time again, that cheating doesn't have any consequences. Maybe you're new and haven't been playing for as long as the rest of us. if you have, you'd see why our belief and trust in the developers and customer service is 0.

As @Justice Jacks mentioned, we've called this player out on the forums, emails to D3 and to customer service in regards to his roster growing at an impossible rate. it's only after taking it to the forums that something got done. My post was deleted twice by the mods here so i took it up another level. Wrote the developers, sent letters to their office, via certified mail and all of a sudden, they determined the roster growth WAS an error. We as players shouldn't have to go this route, the developers of this game should want to keep ALL players happy by providing a fair, honest and transparent platform.

I'm on vacation but I felt the need to address your comment. Back to watching sheilas and kangaroos...g'day mate.

PhantomSniper

**Removed inappropriate language - Ducky

PJ_Dupa

Thank you @Brigby for the clarification.

Beta-Ray Bill

Justice Jacks said:

Beta-Ray Bill said:

And your example isnt even close to similar. Because that you personally can catch them multiple ways. What tobi has stated here is there’s no other way to prove from the community stand point somebody is cheating, unless it’s obvious. 

Oops?

Strange how player X is called out for impossible/improper roster growth and then shortly thereafter it's discovered that player X's roster has, in fact, been growing improperly.

And I'll just go ahead and speculate a bit that this is likely just the tip of the iceberg, and as far a D3 can truly sleuth this.  Demiurge, on the other hand, . . . 

You speak on this as you know the full truth of it all.

oh wait.. you know a certain someone in a certain alliance who took for advantage of a recent exploit.

considering you feel the need to be advised fully on the facts of cheating.. please.. advise us on what the recent issues were for why people can’t swap for 14 days

ohp5000

@Brigby any chance you guys are still looking at those who got swollen rosters from massively exploiting bonus heroes? If it takes the forums to get that to happen finally, consider it posted!

I won’t write a letter though, so if that’s what you’re looking for, you got me. Well played.

Milk Jugz

@tobismaul
I'm pretty sure the roster in question is in your alliance, btw.....

Beta-Ray Bill

Milk Jugz said:

@tobismaul
I'm pretty sure the roster in question is in your alliance, btw.....

And?

Milk Jugz

tobismaul said:

If the player in question is found to be a cheater I will be the first one to kick that player. Cheating is something my alliance does not condone. 

I know the guy in question, I've seen the kind of money that guy spends. That "official statement" that Brigby gave us, come on..... The company needs to say something that protects a revenue stream. The fact is, with these types of games, that 99% of their revenue comes from 1% of their players. It would not be in the best interest of the company to come out and say, "oh yeah, he cheated. But we aren't going to do anything" or "oh yeah he cheated. But spends so much money it doesn't matter".

And they are going to "work with the player" to resolve the issue.... That's laughable.... And pathetic.... Think/say what you will, I don't believe this was an "error" on d3's part. An error they committed repeatedly? Please.....