For the Mods, in reference to cheating discussions

animaniactoo
animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
Open letter: 

I am urging you to find some other way to handle threads about cheating.

Every single time one of them is locked, closed, dismissed in some way, we see the standard disclaimer: "The correct avenue for handling complaints about cheating is to file a report with D3go.com."

Yeah, well. You guys seem to be missing the point. Reports ARE being filed. Complaints ARE happening. Both about the cheating and the handling of it. Directly with D3go.com. Several posters have said so.

It's not working. And therefore kicking back to the non-working method is not helping and if anything it is increasing the frustration level of players who are witnessing it and able to detail it. You don't want them to list every known exploit? Instead of exerting pressure here for people not to talk about it, I suggest you exert pressure at the other end of the spectrum for players who exploit to be appropriately handled. Then posters wouldn't be so upset. They wouldn't feel the need to come here and detail their frustration and the exploits and let everyone know exactly what is going on and how so many people are being unknowingly affected by those exploits.

Bugs are hard to run down some times. I can get behind the idea that they can't solve the exploits quickly and they'd prefer for them not to be known. But I can't get behind the idea that they can't relatively easily draw some hard boundary lines and enforce them in ways that make using the exploits more trouble than they are worth. So I can't get behind the idea that you don't want people to list the available exploits in case some other people get the bright idea to figure out how to make it work, when it honestly doesn't seem to matter whether people are doing it to the devs since they take so little apparent action around it. If they are taking action - wow they are so not making it clear and public enough for people to be aware and feel like they're not being penalized for following the rules when that guy over there isn't.

And to be clear, I have no way of knowing whether you are trying to exert influence at the other end of the spectrum and having little to no luck yourselves. What I do know is that you have the power to stop shutting down the people who are (as far as we can tell) rightfully upset and talking about the cheating that is happening and not being penalized, and stop directing them back to a method they've already tried and gotten nowhere with. I know you straddle a hard line between your roles as player advocates and company peacekeepers. I get that it's hard. I sympathize, I do. But everything I've seen about the current method of handling these threads is that it's ramping up the frustration rather than toning it down. Especially among longterm vets and high level players.
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Comments

  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hey.  I just posted too.  Lol
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    I noticed that. lol.
  • DaBeast911
    DaBeast911 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    Well said @animaniactoo

  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    Perfectly said by OP.  
  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2017
    tobismaul said:

    Please accept this comment as independent of the current situation that seems to have created such a stir among some players.

    For the most part there are only 2 parties that can confirm if someone has cheated. The person that cheated and the developer. Everything else is anecdotal or circumstantial evidence that can be presented to the developer but ultimately the developer has to investigate and come to some sort of conclusion.

    I don't think anyone can expect the developer to comment on individual players and I don't think they should be. Are we going to a system where everyone that is reported is publicly considered guilty and the developer has to publicly clear them and explain their reasons?

    This isn't a public court of MPQ justice. Report the player and move on. If you feel like the developer isn't taking the situation seriously and it is ruining the game somehow then play another game, go have some fun. It is in the developers best interest to remove cheaters to maintain a player base for this exact reason, people will move on if they feel the game has been compromised and spend their money elsewhere.

    I understand that people get personally and emotionally attached but what else do you expect the developer to say, other than thank you for making us aware, we are looking into it. Just because you think you spotted a cheater doesn't mean you have the right to all the details about the situation.

    Another question I would as is at what point do we accept the developers decision. At what point do we accept manufactured and manipulated "evidence" by other players. At what point does this become a witch hunt.

    I agree that when there has been wide spread cheating reported and the developer has initiated communication about the cheating they should be more transparent in how they have handled or will be handling it. In the past this particular developer has failed in this regard with little to no follow up. When it comes to an individual player though, report it, move on, let the developer deal with it from there.

    If you had $100k sunk into this game, would you just say "ho hum, this cheating sucks, I'm going to move on now" or would you maybe, just maybe, do everything in your power to get the cheating resolved so you could continue to enjoy the thing you dumped so much money into.

    If you neighbor keeps flinging dog poop against your house, do you just leave your house, and all the $ you invested in it, sitting there and move into another house?  Personally, I'd do everything I could to get a restraining order against the neighbor, but I'm just weird like that, I guess. 
  • Addaran
    Addaran Posts: 72 Match Maker
    Got to aggree with tobismaul. Would be nice if they do communicate more and tell us exactly what they are doing with cheaters.

    But i don't think i've ever seen a game where they'll tell you about a player in particular and if he's cheating or not. Those things are resolved in private and the only you'll know is if you don't seem him again (baned/account deleted) , if they fix his roaster to uncheated levels or if absolutly nothing is done, wich means he didn't cheat or they couldnt prove it.
  • Michaelcles
    Michaelcles Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    $100k?!?!?!?
  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    Michaelcles said:
    $100k?!?!?!?
    I know, that's on the low end for some whales, but seemed a good round number to use.  
  • FokaiHI
    FokaiHI Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker
    I’m not in that mmr, but there are a lot of 550s out there. Wouldn’t d3go be able to tell right away? Maybe some people have spent enough money that they are given certain perks the regular player doesn’t get. 
  • Justice Jacks
    Justice Jacks Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2017
    @tobismaul As you currently have a pecuniary advantage from exactly the situation being complained of [or, should I say, attempting to be complained of] on here--and that advantage grows the longer it is allowed to continue--you'll have to forgive me if your attempts at distraction and minimization fall on deaf ears. 

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant, both for cheating of this nature and with respect to D3's enforcement/investigation, or lack thereof, of that cheating.  Hence, the OP. 

    **Removed personal attacks - Ducky
  • tobismaul
    tobismaul Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    See Justice, that’s the problem. You just made a huge assumption about me and my motives, you publically presented me in a way that is completely incorrect with not a shred of proof or evidence. 

    By pecuniary evidence I am assume you are saying the player in question is in my alliance and I am benefiting from that players spending by obtaining the cp that is granted to an alliance when a player makes certain purchases.

    I personally invite you to my alliance. PM me and I will arrange you visiting to view our chat history and see the decided lack of “pecuniary advantage” I am receiving.

    If you bothered to ask instead of assume I would have informed you that my motivation is simple: I am sick of hearing about this topic, from both ends. It’s time to let due course take place. It’s time to let it go. It’s time to move on. If the player in question is found to be a cheater I will be the first one to kick that player. Cheating is something my alliance does not condone. 

    I’m not going to imply anything here. I’m straight forward and I am going to outright say I don’t think you have any knowledge of D3s investigation or lack of investigation into this matter. If you can provide evidence otherwise please enlighten us. Until then let’s let D3 take care of their own business and go back to minding our own.
  • tobismaul
    tobismaul Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    To build on your racing analogy. It’s actually multiple races in multiple locations with multiple skill brackets. Is it worth worrying about what 1 player in all that is doing. Race your own race with your own team and stop obsessing over one suspected cheating racer. Let the race organizers worry about that racer.

    I agree if there is mass cheating then this needs to be addressed publically and transparently as I stated above, but without personal information.

    I am talking about making a big public deal about 1 single player. Please direct me to the valid posts where there is factual credible evidence about this persons cheating. All I have seen is heresay, conjecture, and opinion presented as fact.

    All I am saying is this developer says they take cheating seriously. At this point we have to take the developer at their word and assume they are doing or have done a proper investigation. I’m not sure what else we can expect at this point? I haven’t seen anyone reporting of other people cheating in the same manner.

    We don’t know what has been done by the developer up to this point. In my experience any cheaters get rolled back or removed. I have no reason to believe in this case the same won’t be done if the player is found to be cheating.

    If someone out there isn’t happy with how cheaters are being handled then let the developer know by putting your money or time elsewhere.

  • PJ_Dupa
    PJ_Dupa Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    You people are still talking about this? hahaha How long as it been 2 / 3 months now? Keep at it
  • meekersX
    meekersX Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    These forums are run by d3, and the mods have to follow their guidelines for moderation. Ire against the mods should be directed at d3. I don't know of a productive avenue for that.
  • FokaiHI
    FokaiHI Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker
    PJ_Dupa said:
    You people are still talking about this? hahaha How long as it been 2 / 3 months now? Keep at it
    Lol. You need more posts than three. Please dont assume. 
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    FokaiHI said:
    PJ_Dupa said:
    You people are still talking about this? hahaha How long as it been 2 / 3 months now? Keep at it
    Lol. You need more posts than three. Please dont assume. 
    I think this poster has more than three posts about him, FokaiHi. Since you don't know that, maybe you should be the one not assuming. Lol

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